It's About The Horse

Copious_Amour · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: Alternatives to joint injections?

My buddy has some joints that are giving him some problems-- no visible lameness but I can tell he is ouchy and one of his hind legs has been a bit swollen lately. I can do injections but would rather do something nicer to his body. Any suggestions? I know I could do Legend/Adequan-- is there anything else I should try?

He has a past injury of a stifle break from about 2-3 years ago. We are assuming it healed since there has been no lameness or heat in that area but I will be getting his x-ray records soon and be speaking with a vet about what to do but thought I would get the opinions of the experts I trust here.

He is on a basic joint rice bran right now but that is it.

Sonya Fitzpatrick told me he wanted an adjustment but I don't know how that could help his leg pain. Either way I do plan to have the chiro out a couple of times to help him. He has a long back so I know that he must have problems with that too.

Thanks for any help!

ErinR76 · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Posts: 502 Location: Austin TX

April Battles will do a consult with you and give you some exercises to help certain physical ailments...not sure if she can help with joint issues though...

I know certain neutraceuticals are good for joint issues. There was one called Sashas EQ that I heard about a while back. Which was interesting because my horse's name is Sasha lol

http://www.sashaseq.com/about.php

Somebody I know who used to deal in feed thought Aniflex GL was a good joint supp.

Here's my notes on what I found a while ago:

'chondroprotectants' glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate helps joints absorb water and remain spongelike. Glucosamine hydrochloride is better utilized than glucosamine sulfat. it has a 95% absorption rate. A 1000 lb horse needs 10,000 mg (10g) gluc. hydr. per day.

chondroitin sulfate (CS) helps inhibit enzymes associated with inflammation and tissue destruction. it only has a 15% absorption rate.

Brands/types:

Cosequin and Conquer were too pricey and didnt have enough GH.

Cortaflex uses smaller key isolates of chon and gluc.

Optimum Flex has big stars next to it and has 32000 GH so I must have thought that was a good option.

I have a maybe next to Gucosamine XL Plus with MSM; it had GS of 8000mg.

Also look for products that have MSM, chondroitin, glucosamine, hyaluronic acid at high levels Also good esp for senior joints: yucca devils claw and the ingredients mentioned above.

I have some back issues of Horse Journal (does lots of product comparisons) magazine, so I'll scout those and post here later.
_________________
A horse is NOT a large dog that thinks like a person.

Copious_Amour · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:28 pm Post subject:

ErinR76 · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Posts: 502 Location: Austin TX

Ha ha no problem. Some other products to check out are Conquer Gel and Hylarin-B. Grand Flex also performed well and also Corta-flx HA. Also B-L solution (www.equineamerica.com)

Look for a min dose of 7500mg glucosamine, with min 2500 chondroitin, in a combination-ingredient product.

MSM can be a rapid acting antiinflammatory, but you need 20 grams (20000 mg).

Hualuronic acid gel at 100 mg/day provides rapid control of acute problems and flare ups

If the supp. has a long list of other ingredient,s vit C (min of 1500 mg) and copper (min 50 mg) are the most likely to actually have a direct effect on joints.

check levels of anti-inflammatory herbs to make sure they're not just 'window dressing.'

WHO IS A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR JOINT NUTRACEUTICALS?

Good: synovitis
joint effusions
minimal bony changes
early diagnisis
favorable response to HA or PSGAG (adequan) injections
plain arthritis, age related general stiff joints

Poor: decreased or uneven joints pace on xrays
advanced bone changes
damage to stabilizing ligaments or soft tissue structures within the joint
unresolved balance or shoeing issues
infectious problems (eg Lyme)

For more info, order the back issues of Horse Journal (not to be confused with The Horse Journal) magazine. November 2007, October 2007
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A horse is NOT a large dog that thinks like a person.

Mandy'sMarty · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject:

Check with April and listen to what she identifies and recommends.

Her coaching me on helping unravel Mandy's issues a few years ago is what launched me into the realm of holistic integrated therapies.

At the time, Mandy was having issues with her hocks. Turned out that her hock issues were the end result of a series of compensating imbalances and misalignments that originated in her front end.

I learned how to release the misalignment of the hock and enabled Mandy to use her hindquarters again and be able to jump without pain. Since then I've helped a friend's gelding with a hock issue that used to be treated...again and again...with injections.

You need to first identify the primary physical issue and how that is presenting joint issues. Do you know which joint is involved? And why?

I use Dynamite's MSM and their Free and Easy, depending on the issue.
MSM addresses the inflammation and soreness in the soft tissue/muscles.
Free and Easy contains MSM as well as
Gelatin, Calcium Ascorbate (as Ester C), Calcium Heptahydrate (natural unrefined mined source with a spectrum of minerals), Chondroitin, Hyaluronic Acid, Glucosamine, Una de Gato (Cat's Claw), Yucca, Whole Leaf Aloe Vera, Amino Acid Chelates of Zinc, Manganese and Copper.

Free and Easy is Dynamite's most popular product. It is a complete and comprehensive formula to support joints cartilage and ligaments. Addresses pain and inflammation associated with normal daily exercise and activity. It relieves the heat and inflammation in the stressed joints that attracts calcium that creates arthritis.

If I sound like a Dynamite distributor, it's because I am. But I use these products because they work. I have a very competitive 17 year old endurance horse to prove it.
_________________
Marty

We must be willing to let go of
The life that we planned
So as to have the life
That is waiting for us.

~Author Unknown

Jewil · Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject:

I love SmartPak for many reasons but one is that they have an awesome chart you can use for comparisons. When I picked Bucky's supplement I sorted out the highest glucosamine then MSM then Chondroitin Sulfate then vitamin C then HA. Lastly how much did I want to spend!

http://www.smartpakequine.com/charts/JointCompare.aspx
_________________
Jessica

Bucky: 16 year old Buckskin QH
Fancy: 20 year old Buckskin QH

Member of The Bad Apple Society

Copious_Amour · Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject:

Thank-you everyone for your replies! Someone mentioned that feeding glucosamine can be expensive because the horse poops a lot of it out, is this true? That it's hard to digest? She mentioned giving shots of Glucosamine as 5mL every month, and while that is expensive, it works really well. Does this sound right? Also said to dose with magnesium as it helps with their minds and keeps their muscles relaxed?

I really want to check into April, I bet his soreness is coming from an area I'm not even aware of. Hadn't even thought of that. My main concern for this horse is for him to be comfortable. I have an incredible time with him on the ground so I have no problem staying off his back.

Jewil, I LOVE SP too and want to get Tanner on some stuff of theirs.

Marty, funny you should mention it, I was on Dynamite's website the same day you responded on here. I know Erin is a distributor as well and helped me years ago with my FB gelding. I wasn't able to afford it back then but now I can. I wouldn't know where to start though.

ErinR76 · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Posts: 502 Location: Austin TX

boy smartpak makes it easy, huh? And they have great customer service too.
_________________
A horse is NOT a large dog that thinks like a person.

Mandy'sMarty · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:16 am Post subject:

I'm not aware of digestive issues with glucosamine. I understand that condroitin absorption can be only 0% to 13% unless it is pharmaceutical grade condroitin. The condroitin molecule is too big to be absorbed through the GI tract and then into the bloodstream. Pharmaceutical grade condroitin is expensive.

If your gelding has mineral imbalances and is deficient in magnesium, he will probably act cranky, anxious and feel much soreness from tight muscles.

Too much calcium in his diet can suppress the absorption of whatever magnesium is in his diet, creating a magnesium deficiency. This can occur with too much organic calcium in a straight alfalfa diet, for example. Or it can occur with too much inorganic (non-bioavailable) calcium in feed supplements. This brings up another issue: carbonate, or oxide, or sulfate forms of minerals are not as available to the body as amino acid chelated minerals. Yet the body can become toxic and out of balance from overload of minerals that are inorganic. The body cannot readily utilize these inorganic minerals, the organs of elimination become stressed from the burden. Many feed supplements are offering only inorganic minerals.
_________________
Marty

We must be willing to let go of
The life that we planned
So as to have the life
That is waiting for us.

~Author Unknown

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9013

I've had stomach problems with MSM, in myself and dogs. I imagine it could cause problems in horses too. I've never had any luck with Clondroitin
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

misstux · Member Joined: 27 Feb 2009 Posts: 944

I use GLC 5500 from GLC Direct. It works great. April is fabulous! She has worked on both Scout and Strider literally changed the shape of Scout's back.

Copious_Amour · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:33 am Post subject:

gaitinalong · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 81 Location: Tennessee

My senior TWH aleady had some hock/ankle arthritis but when Equine Metabolic Syndrome came on the scene, it exploded his arthritis issues.

Due to the insulin issues, he does not get glucosamine but has been on pharmaceutical grade Chondroitin/MSM 4-1/2 years.

About 18 months ago, I added Hylarin-B, made by MedVet Pharmaceuticals.

He is maxed out on dosages for everything. My vet's specialtiy is leg injuries and he will not inject Duke with anything. When he gave Duke his physical in September one of his comments was "we have a good 3 - 4 years before we need to talk about the arthritis".

Last week I started him on an herbal blend that is supposed to help control (or get rid of if I'm lucky) the melanomas he is developing in his ears and above one eye.

Some of the herbs are to increase blood circulation.

It made Duke stop itching his ears/forehead on the pipe rail immediately but I also noticed he seems to be moving out a little better, when he comes out of his stall in the morning. It could also be that I am looking for things that aren't really there because I want this Grand Fella to be the healthy respectful sassbox he's always been

I also have my two senior dogs on the same Chondroitin/MSM and Hylarin-B. They were both rescues with shoulder, hip & pelvic injuries in one or the other.

Neither of them would be walking without these meds, that are for horses - lol lol I did at least have the common sense to call both companies and have them help me reduce the dosage down for 90LB dogs

Mandy'sMarty · Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:15 pm Post subject:

Emili, before you start spending money, I suggest you contact April first ( www.holistichorseworks.com ). Phone her first. With her schedule, I think it's easier for a potential client to catch her by phone conversation than to get an email response from her smart phone. She should be able to quickly tell you what she can do for you and your horse and that initial conversation should not cost you more than the phone call. She's based in northern California so she may be in your area periodically.

April also offers 'equine distance communication'. She and I both have the AC ability to contact the horse and find out what the primary, underlying issues are. For example, I can 'read' a horse energetically and identify mineral imbalances in its body. I can do this 'non-locally' from a great distance. I can also physically check several reactive points on the horse's body and identify mineral imbalances if I can get my hands on the horse.

Sometimes it just depends on what you are comfortable with. Before ordering lab work and tests, I personally prefer to go directly to the horse as the source of information. Then, based on what initial information I receive, then I decide what specialist or diagnostic tool may be required to resolve the issue(s). I believe April can establish a direct contact with your horse and identify what you are dealing with.
_________________
Marty

We must be willing to let go of
The life that we planned
So as to have the life
That is waiting for us.

~Author Unknown