It's About The Horse

cynthia peterson · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:14 pm Post subject: Good Riding and Bad Riding Critic

We were all talking about "seat" on the Buck thread. Rik had posted on Buck's seat. We decided since this was a "free forum for those doing Parelli" then it would be good to post something about Pat and Linda's seat (like we did Buck)

I sure am not finding very many public pictures of Pat riding to post. I would love to have people see the WAZ Extra DVD, East Meets West. In that Pat and Linda are asked to do basic movements every horseman should be able to do. Like moving the quarters (back and front) extending the trpt, etc. So it's not a "gotcha'" moment, but WAZ asking IF you can do it and how well you can do it.

So, to start here is the one Youtube clip I do have of Pat:

Sorry edited as link won't work.

Go to Youtube and look under Pat Parelli with a horsez4life clip

Niek · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 1065

video is not available right now, i guess you just uploaded it ?

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9014

Cnythia, it says the Video isn't available.

Try again....

I did want to say one thing before people post videos of others. I had a friend thoroughly diced on another forum for equitation. She was riding in a saddle, not her own, that had been put on the horse and not adjusted for her. She was only riding the horse to show his gait for a potential buyer, not riding for any show or example. But, someone thought she rode fine and put the video up as an example of good equitation without asking her.

Since this will be a critical thread, we should probably keep videos of people riding equitation or similar. Videos of yourself riding would work too...provided you are willing to deal with the critic, good or bad.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

cynthia peterson · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:11 pm Post subject:

I am showing how computer dumb I am.

let's try this as it would be the most fair to Parelli and they would not object to anything from their own ParelliTube Channel.

So I don't screw this up again! Go to google and find YouTube Channel if you don't already know where it is. Go to the right side and go all the way down to Dec 24.09 clip Interview with Pat Parelli Natural Horsemanship Level 4. This will be clip Parelli approve of them self in their best. No gotcha' there. It was edited to show Pat and Linda in thier best. Go to about 4 mins and there is a good one of Linda, short, but that is Linda in her very best. There is a clip at the end about 6 mins to the end of Pat doing the Level 4 DVD with Magic. Nothing fancy, just trotting. That is the basics to begin with. Most of the other clips are Pat riding and doing something else, talking, handling another horse, etc., and that is hardly fair to him as his balance and reins would be compromised.

And as bad of quality of the Magic and Pat one in my other post by horsez4life (not the one that didn't work) which she raved as so good, is pretty telling too.

Maybe someone else can pull something off of Parellitube that would be better, but I think that would be our safest site to pull vids from to be fair.

cynthia peterson · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:56 pm Post subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLIU0qq8XOQ

This is the right Youtubeclip I was looking for.

And it is recent. Magic and Parelli "dancing together" according to the poster.

Carol, if you would forgive me for promising NOT to post a critic, I sure would LOVE to give this a few more words. But, I promised, so I will not if you don't give me the OK (...setting on hands, put me in coach

)

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9014

Cynthia, I didn't find that video to be a good one to critic, since he isn't really riding, but trotting in place. There was one underneath it where he rides...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scxdV7RmWpc&NR=1

His seat looks typically western to me, somewhere between pants pockets and center. I see his seat leave the saddle before the jump, but mine would probably too.

I also see that Magic (bless her heart, I do love that horse) doesn't care for that bit, even though she is not behind the bit in the video. Considering that he could do all that with no bit, I think THAT is how Magic deserves to be ridden...but that is just me.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9014

Cynthia, maybe I need to clarify that I was talking about individuals...like videos of other students. Clinicians put themselves in the public spotlight, and in so doing, open the legal doors for critic. Please feel free to critic Pat's riding... But I think we need to keep it at critic...not bashing.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

cynthia peterson · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:22 pm Post subject:

I agree carol, your Youtube clip is a good one. Let's use that one.

So, is that a OK for me to critic/ If i don't bash? Just like what I see good and what Magic is telling us is not what she was looking for. OR, better yet, are Magics feet in the right position and Pat's aids applied when Magic should have got what he asked accomplished? Yes, the bit is a problem, but could it be also because of the feet position and aid given at the right time to help her? Did he wait, or did he blur through somethings and Magic got spinning out of position when he should have stopped and started correctly then just going on? Just saying... look again and see what you people think?

Rik(The Sequel) · Member Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 102

First clip

There is not a lot to say about the rider.

The horse, steps are irregular, cadence not very even, very little activity or elevation, most concerning it looks like the horse is in pain or has memory pain experienced when the right hind hits the ground, you can’t really see but it’s probably in the right hind leg somewhere imo, it’s also either uncomfortable in the mouth or it’s an expression of the pain form the hind.

Second I’ll look at later but at least the right hind does not seem to be giving any pain.

cheerios · Member Joined: 17 Feb 2009 Posts: 1163 Location: TEXAS

cynthia peterson · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject:

Again, the horse can only do what the rider asked/put in there. Is it rider or horse err? Does the horse "tell" on you? If there is something Magic, or your own horse does that is not biomechanically incorrect, we need to go back to step one ( and Pat would tell us to)and start over and get it correct. We only have them do it correct to help the horse. Why didn't Pat do that in that clip? Or other clips of Magic? If you were dragging a foot, or your child, or lift one foot more then the other yourself (doesn't even have to be a pain issue), would that cause a problem in your shoulder, back or neck, latter in life? That is the whole reason of purity of gait (the theme of this thread block)

IMO Magic is blocking/bracing against Pat. The question is why? But I am open to comments/corrections. All I say is look at the video, and see what you see good and bad. Maybe we can see something that will help our own horsemanship. Pat is who many look to for horsemanship. I will say Magic is getting on in age, she could have pain. So, if you are like me and has been watching Magic and Pat for 10 years or more, would you say Magic has gotten better or worst with Pat's seat? I will not comment on that, but anybody else, go ahead if you want.

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9014

I would say that Magic has some pain issues that are obvious in her mouth and her gait, which is uneven.

I would say that Pat's seat is pretty typically western, not good enough to win an equitation class, but nothing bad that gets in the way of the horse. Now what his spurs and hands are doing is another subject all together.

I would say that none of it has anything to do with PNH, any more then I'd say that Buck not maintaining contact with the saddle in the video on the Buck thread, says anything about Bridlehorse training.

Are we critiquing Pat or Magic or PNH? I thought this thread was about seat.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

cynthia peterson · Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:42 pm Post subject:

Good points Carol! I agree. Except the "getting in the way of the horse" part.

And I too, thought it was to critic the rider. It was Rik's question that got me to saying is it the horse or rider, nothing you said.