It's About The Horse

merle · Member Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Posts: 445

I copy/pasted this from the Remmer thread on horse chat. I moved it to the bio mechanics and purity of gait topic to discuss the mechanics or physics of this injury. Of course, no one knows how it happened, but basic physical principles out to be able to help understand. I'm curious as to if this was a freak accident, was it related to the angles on his hooves putting stress on him or ...? Also, the part about it being a horrible tear, is that possible? Possible for a healthy horse to move just right and tear a tendon enough to cause the skin to open and external bleeding to occur? If so, how?

Amy was riding Remmer on the track up at the Performance Barn. Part of the track was blocked off so she cantered over the small bank and Remmer fumbled. He didn't go down, but was three-legged when he stopped. Amy got off and was shocked to see the gash across the tendons of his left hind leg, just below the hock. She sent for me urgently and we just could not figure out how he cut himself there - nothing on the ground that could of hurt him and he didn't hit the ground. So we think he might have struck himself some how, it's very odd, especially to hit that spot, or else it's a horrible kind of tear. Xrays showed no damage to the bone, thank goodness.

Can cantering over a bank in and of itself cause a fumble that would gash the hindleg and tear the tendon?

What might cause a 'horrible kind of tear'? Would landing wrong on a hind foot cause a twist that could be severe enough to tear a tendon?

Thanks for the insights.

Edited to add - Mariah's blog had a blurb about Remmer being clumsy and cutting his tendon with his shoe. What parts of the shoe could have cut him like that?

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3248

Trailers on the shoes? Usually rear, I believe?
Weakness from improper shoeing?
Maybe tendon already weak and ready to rupture?

We see this in a partial tear of the Achilles' Tendon on a person.
Horses don't always show us or we don't read it right.

I missed the rear abscess for months. The horse not being a complainer, until it was brought to a real issue. Major pain.

I think some of the farriers could state some of their ideas along with veterinarians. Also, other folks who know about injuries related to horses.

Good topic, btw.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

cynthia peterson · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject:

Merle, this sure puzzles me too. I guess we both have curious minds that just have to figure things out? Kinda' Linda Parelli like personality, eh? And as Linda says. we all could learn something from this,

If a shoes hung out over the hoof (what they call a trailer) on the front hoof, it could gash a back leg. The gash if we follow the above statement by Linda was "just below the hock." That would be pretty high for that to happen, -BUT it was going down a slope and @ canter, it could happen. The pictures (zooming up the image) looks like Remmer had at least 3 shims (possibly steel) and a bar shoe on the front, especially the Right front. A bar shoe is closed, does not have a trailer. But, it could have had a trailer shoe on (or the shoe become loose) at the time. Plus the instability of that many shims and the off angle seemed to have Remmer "clumsy". Linda, the Blogger, and the very fact that Remmer fell last year with Linda cantering (sending her to the hospital that time) seem to tell us this has been the case (Remmer being unstable for some time, IMO the shoes)

So we have a unstable horse to begin with (with history of it) cantering down a slope, not falling, and Amy amazingly not feeling where the feet are as she would have felt the exact moment and which foot. That's the facts so far.

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3248

Cynthia,
I forgot about that fall for Linda and Remmer could have an old injury related to that incident?

I have seen trailers on the rear, but not on the front? Doesn't meant it is not done?
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

cynthia peterson · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:03 pm Post subject:

I have never seen ANYTHING like Remmer's shoes anywhere, so anything could happen. It must be a real struggle to keep that much iron (shims and shoe) on the hoof and keep enough hoof wall with that much weight on the hoof.

At the time of Remmer's fall (last year)they said Remmer was not hurt, he actually tripped, I don't think he fell. Linda fell off tho. I am thinking the clue is Remmer being "clumsy"- Linda, and the blogger both stated that. I think unstable would be a better word, as clumsy implies the horse is born clumsy and we know that is untrue as we have all seen Linda jumping and galloping in those earlier days. I never seen or heard of him stumbling or falling in those earlier years. It is true Remmer is stiff in his hocks, has been for years. IMO that is a indication the horse is stiff in the back, not using his back, and that could be the riders fault. It is our job to help the horse use his back. In the end, the horse should improve over the years of training, not get stiffer and clumsier. The fact he has, and almost killed Linda last year, and himself this year is pretty scary!

Rik(The Sequel) · Member Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 102

Might want to consider the effects of the rider and the peice of crap saddle they use when looking at why the horse might have stumbled.

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9030

If there was a bit of rise there, we might also consider that horses don't have good depth perception and he didn't notice the change in terrain and tripped on it. Isn't that happened last time?

I have one horse that trips a lot with one foot as she drags that toe. If is at all long, she'll trip with it.

Earlier this fall Bien tore her distal ligament. She had been worked daily for 20-30 minutes, and on this day, she had been through her PT, then worked 20 minutes briskly on-line. Then she was still feeling frisky, so I took her off line to let her run and buck, which she did, wheeling and turning, snorting and strutting, and suddenly OUCH, she came up lame on the rear right. No idea what she did. Good footing, She was warmed up and in shape. It happened and sometimes that is just the way it is.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

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thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3248

On Topic somewhat

But back to John, he had an old abscess that he never showed me in the right hind. He was tender on his front with gravel or small pebbles, so he got shoes. Flat shod on the front. Did great riding until the third brace and he was really fast. I stopped him at the trailer asap. Took him home and he showed up lame three-four days later. That is when we found the abscess that by now, was black and necrotic.

Flint is long and lanky. He walks slow and hits himself. When he gaits or gets a purpose he moves out and there is no hitting.

But all my horses gaited or non-gaited have tripped over something on the ground, just as I have at some point in time.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18