It's About The Horse

HorseLoverAtHart · Member Joined: 08 Dec 2010 Posts: 164 Location: Missouri

I was just interested in what everybody thought of him.... I have watched the his join-up dvd, but have never seen anything else. Has anybody seen him in person or watched anything else of his? What is he like?

I have read acouple things on the web, and some people think that "he runs the horse to to exhaustion and won't stop until they come in to him" in join-up! Is this how anybody interprets join-up here? Just curious....

Becca
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CoolsLadyInRed · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:23 am Post subject:

I read his book about his life and one of his last books about taking a
mustang and releasing him back into the mustangs' herd. I liked what I read and I know others that use his methods with great success. I have seen some clips with him using dummies on a green horse. I guess I didn't like the reasoning behind that but to each his own way. He seems to really embrace a gentler way for horses since his father "broke" horses' spirits the old traditional way. ie. tying legs and sacking them out.

But Monty found a much better way to join up with horses. I don't know if that helps at all but I needed a simpler,more thorough way to learn.

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jackspark · Member Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 4474 Location: Missouri

I think if you are a novice, Join Up is dangerous for the horse. You really need to have a fine eye for horse behavior and know exactly what you are seeing. If not you run a significant risk of exhausting him and making his fear more pronounced.

I did read and enjoy his book as well as seeing several of his RFD shows.
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AlythLong · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:58 am Post subject:

As the others have said. I read his book before finding PNH and tried join up (I had been with horses for around 40 years so I could recognise the signs!) which worked ok. But I didn't like make friends, throw a bridle and bit on and long rein methodology!!

And since then there has been an e book that refuted most of his claims. This was authenticated by most people mentioned in his book and others as well. It did seem peculiar that a young boy would be allowed to spend months on his own following wild horses!! I know my parents wouldn't have allowed me to do that!!!!

Also his side of the law suit I understand was a bit far from the truth!!!

You can't believe everything you read so what do you believe?

Alyth

Yes_But_Neigh · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:53 am Post subject:

Monty Roberts is an amazing horseman. Completely agree that if you don't know what you are looking for in a horse- ie: simple twitch of the nostril, flick of the ear, draw of the eye- you will keep "running the horse" because you won't see what to look for. I think everyone agrees here that you can take absolutely any horse trainer's techniques, and in the wrong hands- it can be detrimental to the horse. Overall, I like Monty.

learningthedance · Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject:

I saw him here in Ontario about 15 years ago. He changed my life in the way I look (and listen) to horses. He was the first person I saw that started breaking down and explaining horse body launguage, what it meant, and what to do with it. How to recognize what the horse was telling you. He truly was a "gentle" man and had such a calm way about him. When I saw him, it was my first taste of "something more" and something MUCH deeper. His demo's were simply amazing. To see how these demo horses transformed in such a short time was something I will never forget. What I remember the most about him, is he would give you the what's going to happen next, seconds before it happened and it always happened just like he called it. He wasn't wordy or showy and is just very to the point in a simple way that works. Cut to the chase kind of guy who just get's it done when the horse is ready.

I have his older tape (bought it 15 years ago), and it's easy to follow and he points out all the subtleties your want to look for. Pretty straight forward stuff for the most part as long as you can recognize the subtle signs as mentioned. Once you get the true "join-up", then everything else can start to build on from there.

He also (after join-up) uses allot of approach and retreat, but I think he is best known for his "join-up" and his story of Shyboy.

I also agree that in the wrong hands- it could be detrimental to the horse, as with anything we see from any trainer out there.
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carefreegirl · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 822

I was about ten years old when I first picked up Monty's book..I was and I am an avid reader, especially anything with horses. I enjoyed it overall. As with anyone there are things I like and things I don't. I think he is worth learning about/from, but then again I think you can learn something from everyone; you just have to decide what to do with what you learn.

Clarissa · Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject:

I have to agree that you already need to know about horses to succeed at Join Up. I found it very good for getting inside a horse's head very quickly if a decent sized round pen is available. It's very easy to cause a poor horse to get totally confused & upset if the various signals aren't observed & acted on instantly. I gave up trying to talk people through doing join-up with their own horse because it seemed most people were just totally blind to that horse's body language.

I used it with Sonny in his first 2 years when nothing else was working. It was always the starting place for every session. He seemed to like it then. However now he hates it because I have changed his mental outlook somewhat & he considers it chasing him now even if I am very correct with it. Actually I did use it on him once again about 2yrs ago when he was being particularly obnoxious one day & he recognised the pattern straight away & yielded mentally to me! amazing! So done right it is certainly a very powerful pattern.

I can't comment on what may or maynot have happened in the rest of Monty's life. All I can say is I think his join-up is very good but the rest leaves me cold. I was very interested in his work on the open range with the wild horses because I have done something similar with wild horses myself in a small way. His methods of attracting them was what I wanted to compare with what I had been taught & otherwise learned for myself.
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plodalong · Member Joined: 10 Feb 2011 Posts: 63

Monty was the first horseman i ever saw, i thought that somehow nobody else would be able to join up or trailer load a horse like he did, I was privileged to meet Kelly Marks and her little horse Pie, I went again last year to watch Monty and Kelly and he did just the same thing, join up and trailer load, I bought his book ,ask Monty, and i joined the queue to meet him, he was sitting up on a pedastal type thing,and i so wanted to talk to him so i climbed up as well, I must have been very direct line as he called for security, haha,it was obvious that i had crossed his theshold and he felt threatened.Oh well never mind, there will be another time for us to meet, When i went to my first parelli celebration, i couldnt even talk to Pat, i queued up and then i lost confidence and had to leave, so thats two cowboys i didnt meet, i have more confidence now so perhaps this year.

jackspark · Member Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 4474 Location: Missouri

Move Closer, Stay Longer! (and hope they don't call security)
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Flying Monkey Trainer

A journey of a thousand miles must
begin with a single step. Lao Tzu

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

I have a friend who does Intelligent horsemanship - taught by Kelly marks, we have been having discussions about the similarities with obvious exceptions between the two methods and have come to the conclusion that if it works do it. the one thing I found s that the Intelligent horsemanship instructors are very human friendly and very able to teach!
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plodalong · Member Joined: 10 Feb 2011 Posts: 63

i have not had a lesson with Kelly but she didnt call security, and i spoke with her, and i agree , she is a lovely lady I watched her do a trec obsticle course and it was nice to see how responsive pie was and they appeared to have a lovely relationship, i also bought a dually halter ,i used it in an effort to stop Bo from dragging me everywhere, i still use it now when i longline down the lanes.i dont feel i need to use it on a daily basis as bo is not led anymore ,we walk together.

Muleslave · Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject:

I did IH before Parelli.Monty bought Dually over and it was the first time I'd ever seen a horse ridden Western and cutting cattle with no bridle.
He explains body language(human)beter than Parelli but I think Parelli does explain he horse body language the best
Unforttunately my mule being fight not flight didn't do Join up and could trailer load so after that there wasn't much left.He rapidly started to spiral downhill in behavior and I could not get anyhelp to back him.I put him foreward for a "first saddle" demo by Monty but he failed (I'm presuming it was because he behaved so badly in the acessment

) I was not told why and was given no advice and felt like I'd been dumped.I did, after asking two IH instructers,manage to get one to back him for me but after 10wks when he hadn't even managed to mount and Malaga was rearing and biting I bought him away...that's when I eventually went to see a Parelli playday was alowed to take him to the next one and things have fast got better

I think if you have a RB horse and can't get it in a trailer you will be O.K. but after that...your on your own

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becdubie · Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject:

I love the book "shy boy" and that's all I've read about him. My neighbor had the opportunity to talk with him at an event some years ago. She said he was one of the nicest old guys she ever talked to. At the time she had no idea who she was talking to...

About this...

Malcolm · Member Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Posts: 133

Old Monty is a bit of an outcast from the NH movement. He is not invited to any of the celebrations or memorials and is considered an enemy in spite of his acknowledgement of his indebtedness to the Dorrance bothers and Ray Hunt for the door that they opened. The reason are varied and complex. Like Pat P's showiness, in some ways he plays the celebrity game. There is something about the old cowboys that is allergic to that which us why Pat P has similarly been cast out of the inner circle. They both tried to copyright and trademark what they had learnt from the old masters. Monty's Join Up was called Hooking on and still is by Buck Brannaman et al. Monty is much more stringent in his rejection of force and violence and only uses big rubber spurs. He publicly objected to the tying down of the horse in the conclusion of The Horsewhisperer that Buck B did posing as Robert Redford. He reckoned it was the old style of his violent father. His exposure of his father's violence to his family and his horses caused a terrible family rift, and a damning reply to his autobio by his aunts but he has survived that. He has long made his business philanthropic a nd non-profit and it is family run. Parelli has recently started to try and go that route.

Pat P will tie down a difficult horse. Monty never does but did once use a war bridle on a rank stallion that they set him up with in Scotland. The war bridle was a standard tool for Bill Dorrance in his day, so everything is a progression to a better way and chances are that Monty is leading the way. It is a long and complex story but I'll say one thing. I have had answers directly from him and via his daughter like I did from Ray Hunt.
I never had answers from Pat P or any of his staff. I signed up for Monty's online university and in one of his videos he even mentioned that "you may be in South Africa". In fact, I cannot even get the Parelli system to recognise that South Africa exists when I have tried to sign up.

So, as far as the evidence that I have so far goes, from afar my experience is that Monty is accessible and controversially is the world leader in force-free horsemanship that strives to have a willing partnership between horse and human.

I'd love to hear any other thoughts and experiences though.

Malcolm