It's About The Horse

sebocat · Last edited by sebocat on Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

This summer, I decided to turn my hoofcare over to a professional. I had shoes put on Paco at the end of June (right after Bob died) and bought Ty.

I figured for Paco, since he can be tenderfooted, shoes were the best option. I let a neighbor (a 70 year old lady) ride him, and I didn't want her to have to mess with boots.

I also figured for Ty, that his conformational issues (sickle-hocked and a little bench kneed) that it was imperative his trim was done right, every time. I also am unsure about his specific needs. He is 100% sound in the pen and on the trail, and I want him to stay that way.

I just didn't feel like I was good enough, even though the farrier that did Paco complemented me on my trim and said she was very comfortable with me trimming on my own.

Here comes the fun part: Paco is now a few weeks overdue. He has been in his shoes fow about 10 weeks and I can't get the farrier to call back. He threw a shoe 5 weeks ago, and I had a friend come tack it on. Should have had him pull them all. I'd like to have the shoes reset, but she wont return my call, and I can't find another farrier. (the good ones are few and far between, and my friend has since moved away)

So, today, I am going to try to pull his shoes myself. All I have is a shoe puller, a pair of pliers, and a chisel I am going to use to help undo the clenches. I simply can't get anyone out to do it, andhe is overdue and I feel like a royal A-hole for putting him in this situation.

I used to do this out of necessity because I couldnt find anyone willing to do a draft (Bob) but now, its simply that I cant get a good farrier to call back.

I did trim Ty, and have done it twice now. I figure I balance the hoof like I always have to te best of my ability. Does a sickle hocked, bench kneed horse require a different trim?

I'l post pics of his feet/conformation if I can get him to hold still. He seems to know when I am trying to take his picture and REFUSES to cooperate! Photogenic, he is not!

Anyway, I'd love some feedback and ideas. I have thick skin and an ovewhelming desire to do it right.

Also, I am getting KCs cast system for Paco. No more shoes, no more waiting on professionals to call back. Just time for me to put my big-girl panties on and do this for myself.
_________________
~~Suz

I miss you Bob

gaitinalong · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 81 Location: Tennessee

Well that stinks - I am so sorry things didn't work out.

I took the trimming of my four back because:

1. I knew I was quitting my part time job and it's now just me, social security and hubby's paycheck.

1. <--Yes #1 again, my Trimmer had done an excellent job for three years but, unfortunately, he is still young enough that he does not know how to keep personal problems from interferring with his work. I have all the sympathy in the world for him and he did show me some things I didn't know but, when all my horses come in with their hooves peeling and chipping after only three weeks, it's time to take action.

What you might do is take before and after pics and e-mail them to a barefoot trimmer on-line.

I did that with one of my IR horse's hooves (he is also slightly sickle-hocked) and a well-respected trimmer, two counties south of me, came up and evaluated the hooves on my other metabolic horse.

Both said I was doing a great job but the hooves were slightly un-even. What that translates to is that my old eyes are not seeing things as straight and level as they should, so it now takes me close to an hour to trim a horse because I have to measure everything.

When I say old I mean as in 64+ years old. I did NOT want to have to be doing this - especially since I have sliding vertebra because my lower discs are gone and I have to wear a back brace.

I am only telling you all this to further inspire you - lol lol lol

You will do fine but, if it makes you feel better get an opinion of a professional trimmer that is willing to help. I could PM the gal's name who helped me on another forum, if you'd like:)

Hope this helps.

sebocat · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:54 am Post subject:

I was lucky in Fairbanks, I had a good farrier there that would come out and inspect what I'd done. He was all about me learning to do it myself. Man I miss that!

I would very much like the forum name or the persons webpage if you don't mind. I need all the help I can get. I know part of keeping Ty sound is going to be making SURE his feet are balanced.

My son just got back from his friend's house, so he is going to help me take pics and hold Paco. Will post them as soon as I get it figured out....
_________________
~~Suz

I miss you Bob

sebocat · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:31 am Post subject:

OK, 2 hrs later, my bac is killing me, but I got the shoes off and Paco is all trimmed up. I figured out ow to pull the shoes at about shoe 4, and managed to not rip up his feet at all. phew!

I cleaned his soles with just a hood pic, and they were pretty crumbly, The only frog I trimmed was because it was floppin around and harboring cooties.

When I put him in shoes this summer, he had a little white line separation the the toes in both fronts. Nothing major. He also has a pretty significant flare on both rear hinds at the quarters starting about 2/3 the way down the hoof. I'v bee fighting that dang flare for years. Obviously its my trimming. The farrier trimmed him super short to complately eliminate the flare. Its gone now. He was in shoes for a total of about 11 weeks with no resets because I cant get ahold of her.

Anyway, here are the before and afters. I don't like them in the afters, but I can't articulate why. He is sound, so I am not too worried, but what is wrong?

Right Front before and after:

And Right Hind before and after:

Not sure how I missed the before of this one, but you get the idea...

.

Anyway, I am least satified with the hinds. Is the quarter scoop too much?? He also has some bruising I worry about, but it doesnt seem to bug him. He also moved off sound.

The only sole that got pulled out came with either the hoofpick or the dull side of my knife. everything that came out was crumbly. Heck, the bars were crumbly too, and I have never seen them do that!

ideas?
_________________
~~Suz

I miss you Bob

becdubie · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:39 am Post subject:

Well, I'm no expert Suz....but they look darned good to me.
I do my own trims too mostly cuz the farriers around here are all into shoeing and the only one I've found that believes a horse can go barefoot charges an arm and a leg for a trim.

I don't do anything special with the quarters and they have all naturally moved to that quarter scoop look that you have there.
_________________
-Becky
There is more than one right way!

gaitinalong · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 81 Location: Tennessee

Wow good thing I copied my post because I completely lost the forum

Hopefully a profressional will come in and comment but, I think you did a stellar job

I have had to pull shoes in the past and if that's not something one has the tools for it is horrible.

I did not expect those shoes to look that solid after 11 weeks. I figured the hooves would be hanging over the edges everywhere. Did you keep those hooves rasped back during this 11 weeks?

To my eye (which I have already established sees things crooked), there is some flare that can disappear. I think you may trim like I do - very conservatively - and there's going to reach a point where you will have to take a deep breath and start rasping away. You will be amazed at how easy that flare will disappear and how terrific the hoof will look.

It's hard for me to tell from the camera angle, but I think a more can come off the heels at the next trim. When that happens, you will naturally shave more off the back quarters which will, in turn, make the flares go away.

I read about putting some sort of shoe on horses that have foundered that allow the hoof to roll all the way around - "they" said the horse had to have shoes to accomplish this because a barefoot trim would not.

Well guess what? That is a big fat non-truth because I did it on both of my metabolic horses. The 12 yr old had sub-clinical laminitis a year ago and the 23+ yr old has never had a laminitis issue.

But I put a really aggressive roll literally from heel-to-toe. They are both Tennessee Walkers and their movement is now so fluid (except for the hock arthritis in my 23 yr old) that it's jaw-dropping.

Soooo I put the same aggressive heel-to-toe roll on my other two horses; the third TWH has a less-than-Grade 1 club hoof and the 25+ Arab has just about no heels due to how he walks from vertebra injury that came with him when I rescued him over 18 years ago.

Also, if you can, I use Absorbine Hooflex "Thrush Remedy" every time I trim. I pour it not only on and around the frog but also cover every bit of the hoof I have trimmed with it to sort of "seal" the hoof from germs. This stuff is amazing and does not harm healthy tissue.
http://www.absorbine.com/products/hoofcare/hooflex-thrush-remedy

I can't use the knippers anymore because I have a good dose of arthritis in both hands. Between that and sliding vertebra, I don't trust myself to stay bent over and take a good cut without messing up, so I bought a Vallorbe rasp. These work really well when you're old, 5'3" and don't have the cubic inches or strength to get the job done anymore - lol

http://www.stockhoffsonline.com/acatalog/Rasps_Vallorbe.html

I am very fortunate that I can run into town and buy them but I have done business with Stockhoff's and can say they are great folks and honest.

Vallorbe makes two styles of rasp and I bought them both. The $23 one will split a dog's hair two ways.

The $33 one will split it three ways, so one has to be really careful not to take too much hoof off with the $33 rasp.

The crumbly stuff on the soles and frogs is the shedding process; it's that time of year, my horses are shedding too and I live in southern Middle Tennessee.

Those dark spots on the soles? That can be gently pared off. There is live sole under that dead stuff waiting to see the ground it walks on

.

I took my horses back in May and I know full well someone that trims for a living would have had their hooves back to 100% by now but I am afraid to do too much at a time. It's been 90's to over 100 degrees with matching humidity since mid-May so my horses haven't seen a bridle. Nobody's come up sore for even five minutes, so I am ok with the B+ grade I got from the two Pros that evaluated my work.

Point-being I do not even get to the "P" on Professional, so hopefully someone that is will post but, I do think as you get more confidence you can easily get the flare under control.

In closing, regarding your back:

1. A good chiropractor - mine walks on water and is keeping me from having back surgery that I honestly should have but refuse to get.

2. An MD to write a prescription for Lidoderm patches; cut them in half, they work just as well. These things are fantastic!
http://www.drugs.com/pro/lidoderm.html Evidently these are used for shingles and other neuralgia-type problems too.
3. Excedrin Extra Strength

karmikacres · Member Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 1182

I would like to see a bit less roll at the toe. You are pretty much all the way through the inner and outer wall. That wall at the toe is very important for energy transfer and blood flow within the capsule.

Other than that, looks great.
_________________
I guess sometimes, on the hopeful path to glory, we get sidetracked and find something better instead.

Clarissa · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject:

Suz for future reference if you have a hoof rasp you have the correct tool for filing off the clinches. Use the finer side of your hoof rasp & rest it’s edge side on the top of the now loose clinches & press downward as you rasp while your horse stands on concrete or hard ground(ie standing on the shoe). The clinch will break away after a couple of swipes. That’s better than trying to chisel it off as that may still leave a curled end which will tear through the hoof as it comes out making the hole a lot bigger & also making it even harder to get the darned shoe off.

Under the circumstances I’m sure you will do just as good a job with your current lineup as you did with you did with your previous lineup. For what it’s worth Suz, the job looks ok to me other than maybe a bit too much off the toe just because it’s still early in the barefoot stage. So if it looks good to you & it’s just like you have always done, & if that worked before, then keep doing that! You’ll soon enough know if it needs changing.

I do tend to think your horse will be a tad sore in a day or 2 for a while due to loosing that extra height the shoes gave him which kept his frogs mostly off the ground & the sole cushions weren’t bearing any weight either & now they have to get used to it again. When I removed Sonny’s shoes a few weeks ago he was sound for a day or so then quite sore for a few days even though my paddocks are quite soft again now.

I will be very interested to see how much your horse’s walls grow down past the soles & what proportion of weight each part (sole & wall) bears once your barefoot trim is re-established.
_________________
http://clissats-own-page.blogspot.com/
Most of L4 PNH achieved WooHoo!! happy10

sebocat · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject:

Paco was shod 11 weeks ago, adn with exception of having the front right tacked back on, nothing was done with his feet except for cleaning.

Usually, my trim is conservative. I was worried that was why I never got rid of the quarter flare. This time, I thought to myself "self, be brave, trim the hoof."

When I was done, I did feel like I had been a tad aggressive with the roll. I do have hoofboots incase he is sore, but he also lives on solid ground.

The toe roll is all the way to the white line and I did it 100% from the top. Next time, I'll be less aggressive and check from the bottom a few times

Thanks for the feedback, such a continuous learning process as you try to figure out what works! In he nex few days, Paco will also share his feedback

I'll let you know.
_________________
~~Suz

I miss you Bob

GPH · Member Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 16 Location: NC

Hi! I'm the trimmer that gaitinalong emailed her trim photos to. The major things I see are that you do have too much roll at the toe, and next to none at the quarters and heels, while you need to have a consistent wall thickness all around. Also, make sure you leave the hoof wall a hair longer that the sole, it appears you've rasped the sole a bit here and there, while lowering the walls.

My computer at home is dead for the moment, hopefully I'll have it back in a couple weeks. Feel free to PM me, and I'll send you my email address when I'm on the computer next. I can't wait to be able to check emails at home again, and not have to go to the library!
_________________
Jessica
Ginger- 20 yr old QH/Arab grey mare
Durago- 10 yr old QH/Saddlebred black bay gelding
Belle- husband's 29 yr old bay roan mule mare
Doc- husband's 7 yr old QH red dun/chestnut gelding

sebocat · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:35 am Post subject:

I see what you point out on the roll, I have always done a roll from about 10 oclock to 2 oclock. I think the original farrier that was helping me suggested that.

I never thought about it before, but I imagine that might be where the quarter flare always came from?

That said, should I put a light roll on him now or let him grow out a bit first?

He seems OK today.

The single biggest reason I am changing things up and putting so much more effort in now and trying to get some feedback, is that if you keep doing what you've always done, you keep getting what you always got.

I've got a somewhat flat and tenderfooted (on the trail, sound in the pen) 1/2 draft that tends to flare out at the quarter. I'd like some concavity, or at least some strength in his sole, but at the same time, I am not about to sacrifice my horse to make him go barefoot. Thats why I tried shoes. Its also why I am probably going to go with the Perfect Wear for him. However, Perfect Wear won't fix a less than perfect trim

_________________
~~Suz

I miss you Bob

learningthedance · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject:

GPH · Member Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 16 Location: NC

gaitinalong · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 81 Location: Tennessee

[quote="GPH:92859
Another good thing to check and trim by are the collateral groove measurements. Ideally, you'd like the measurement at the toe and the heel to be about 3/4". Search some on the internet for pics of this.[/quote]

I bought this hoof pick for this purpose; I will never pick a hoof with it -lol

http://www.precisionhoofpick.com/using-the-product.php

sebocat · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:51 am Post subject: