It's About The Horse

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

three people and two bottles of wine later...discussion please

there are two positons, classical which is a light seat - your horse is encouraged to come up beneath you and work, and the heavy seat - you push your weight into the horse and the horse moves into pressure and comes up underneath you.

there is two types of engagement - baucherist where the flexion of the poll and lower jaw are paramount with engagement into this contact, and for arguments sake classical where the horse is ridden from behind long and low into a contact.

by this definition most people will fit into certain categories

parelli - heavy baucher
heather moffat - light baucher
mary Wanless - heavy classical
sally swift - light classical
Janice dulak - light classical

Scarlet Belle · Guest

I keep getting told by my instructor to quit sitting back so far and drop my reins...and heels down. This after I use to ride okay?

No Name

Niek · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 1065

Hm interesting take on it but with the variations especially on Baucher maybe a somewhat dangerous assumption. But i still like it for discussion sake..

When we talk about seating and riding it might be worth it to define the differences between Jineta and Brida. These has to do with seating (Where the saddle is positioned) and use of reins.

My appeal is with the more brida styled riding with a long/ draped leg :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiP7nsVHizw

But i do have a rider like PK in very very high regard to. Same goes for Karen Rohlf. They are out of their horse his way. And i think thats the most important thing. being out of his way. and dont restrict his movements with the reins or your seat. I think it can be acomplished both ways. And it differs per horse what works best and what doesnt..,

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

was trying to reduce te number of definitions. pk is def baucherist, but have not yet seen KR

Niek · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 1065

hm id Karen Rolhf is some light baucherist with classical twists ? :9

Horse Gypsy · Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject:

I think it is our responsibility to be light and out of the horses way as much as possible. From what I have learned about the horses back-- pretty much the back takes a pounding no matter how hard we try not to, I think we need to do our best to be as light as possible. I like PK he is light- he speaks of lightness as a priority- and all his horses are truely round. I just can't stand a driving heavy seat- how could a horse like that and feel positive about that experience.

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

Think about parelli then. everythng is geared to the fluidity seat and the balnce point which means sitting far back in the saddle with weight to the rear of the horse. the horse will then come up beneath you and move into pressue to lift you.
but everything else has been geared to making horses soft and move away from pressure
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Horse Gypsy · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject:

Julie, I really do not think they have thought this through correctly before they started teaching it-- it was years later that Linda started working with WAZ- they really didn't have the background in advanced riding to really know the difference between a horse who is correctly working through his back and one that is not. It is sort of a shame, they should have just stuck with what Pat did know-- Colt starting- yielding to pressure- Bareback etc-- I think it is causing a lot of people to distrust their credibility- especially horse professionals. Karen R- doesn't use most of their equipment and she is associated with them.

AlythLong · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject:

I haven't done a great deal of thinking on this subject but I have just finished a 3 day L3 clinic with 3* Jackie Chant.
She lowered my stirrups 2 holes and put my leg back so it was under my shoulder and hip (as in classical shoulder/hip/heel line) and it felt great. I was then not "on the fork" as I had been when sitting on crotch/seat bones. I have to remember to keep my shoulders back (as in over my hips not in front of them) and flex my lower back when siting in rising trot. It felt much better to me and my horse slowed right down and stopped doing the "demented shuffle" he had been doing in my old position.
So for me balance point and fluidity seem to be the way to go. We are talking tiny changes not major ones.
Alyth

Horse Gypsy · Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:11 pm Post subject:

I think that the original idea of trying to get people not to grip and be tight on a horse was a good one that Linda had. The thing is that you do not need to be on your Parelli balance point not to grip, you just need to be open in your hips and centered in your own body- then you will not grip. I agree that good riding doesn't involve griping and being tight- but to tell people to adopt this un athletic position on a horse in order not to grip I just find to be flat wrong.
I think the field instructors have a little bit of leeway in what they teach.

Niek · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 1065

who says they havent ?

Horse Gypsy · Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:46 am Post subject:

Niek · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 1065

instructors having some leeway.

I dont agree with your observation about beeing to heavy in the back. Read Alois Pohdjasky`s the complete training for horse and rider. He talks about heaving a stiff back (as a rider) and how that creates a communication line between hands and seat. I can even show you a clip of Nuno Oliveira., hes doing a stretched out trot and its not his most flattering footage when it comes to his seating.. Yet this horse still moves like crazy

Wether or not you agree with this (or i agree with this) is a completely different story. But stating just because the horses heads are somewhat up with the nose out is just because she is seating to heavy, is nothing more than an assumption imo. There can be a million reasons why hes moving around that way.

There are not many horses out there that are moving biomechanicly correct. And that correctness can even change per region/trainer/dicipline.

Horse Gypsy · Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject:

I am just completely against the balance point right now. I just see no positive thing coming out of it- That is my opinion- My back hurt my horses weren't moving well I looked like crap when I was trying to use that method.. But I have the exact opposite body type from Linda- she is short and kind of curvy- I am tall and skinny-- My sister tells me that everyone who is built like me has an easier time with certain things just because of having legs- something about my center of gravity. Like I have always found riding Bareback to be easy.
I couldn't get into any method that employed a stiff back- but I do think that we need to be collected in our body if we want our horses to be collected in theirs.

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

Podhasky also talks about having a light seat. i just watched the parelli saddle fitting dvd again and def puts weight in the back of the saddle!
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