It's About The Horse

havingfun · Member Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 48

I think I already know the answer to this question but hubby asked me to post anyway.

First some background:

I trimmed our horses until I thought I finally found a good barefoot trimmer. I gladly turned the job over to him 6 months ago. At first all was well with him with well moving horses. Previously both horses were doing well under my care but I was very unsure of heel height.

On Rio and Navonie's last trim he removed all 'dead' sole and butchered the frogs. The hoof wall was not beveled at all and rasped level with the shortened sole. The edges of the sole were shortened to the point concavity was lessened and rasped level to the hoof wall for 1/4" in the front of the hooves. Navonie was sore for 2 weeks on all ground just hand walking. She is still back in boots for riding 10 week later.

We talked and his reasoning was all dead sole material and frog callous has to be removed once a year to prevent absesses and fungus and bacteria growth. He said I was lucky, most horses are sore for much longer than 2 weeks. I thought it was a bunch of bunk. I had him trim Rio one more time since he didn't get sore and was getting very long. I do well maintaining a trim every couple of weeks but never cut long growth. Rio's sole and frogs were cut just as short as the last trim.

Our question is......Does the frog and sole need to be trimmed short once a year to prevent bacteria and fungus infection and absesses?

Thanks for your answers

We have pretty much decided we are trimming our own horses again. I just want to do it right and always left sole alone and kept frog just open enough to keep clean.

calatar · Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Trimming Sole ?

appellativo · Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject:

I vote bunch of bunkum. Ask him what his references are (veterinary or farrier texts, research papers, articles, magazine, author etc)? Why can't you just remove what is necessary trim by trim instead of a bunch at a time and soring the horse???
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Nashama · Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject:

Go back to trimming yourself.

The best rule we have found is that what sole comes out with some gentle provocation is yours, what stays is the horse's. We do trim the frog and heel bars to prevent bruising and infection, but not severely.

No horse should walk off lame after a trim unless their is a medical reason for it - founder, upper body issues, abscess, severe thrush type reasons.
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learningthedance · Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:19 am Post subject: Re: Trimming Sole ?

havingfun · Member Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 48

We live on the Arizona west coast-hot, dry, and rocky-shale, granite, and volcanic. We baby Rio's arthritic feet with boots hence he didn't get sore. Poor Navonie was able to do all but long rides (over 5 miles) completely bare foot. I was very lucky I didn't stone bruise her on the trail before I realized what he did. She has been ok riding this week with bare back feet though I still don't like the look of the frogs. They are tiny. I'll boot the front for a few more months.

It was a learning experience. Hubby is watching our Pete Ramey videos and is willing to help trim now. I rewatched and have a better idea of how to take care of heel height and bars. I gauge sole by what the hoof pick won't scrap off stays. Filing every 2 weeks is so much better. Even hubby noticed the beginning of flaring going every 6 weeks.

Thanks. We had already pretty much made up our minds but your input has helped.

whudson · Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 2:30 am Post subject:

I agree...you already know the answer...listen always to what your gut instincts tell you
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Newfman · Member Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Posts: 510 Location: Maine

You couldn't fire that Dip S#!+ fast enough.

Just my humble opinion of course.

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The above is my opinion, due diligence is your responsibility. Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level, and beat you with their experience.

Newfman · Member Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Posts: 510 Location: Maine

I wish my digital camera was working. I would love to show you a real healthy frog. It is totally different than what I typically see posted. Since we are in somwhat of a drought right now, the hard dirt and rocky ground have really transformed my warmbloods frogs into mustang frogs.

They are flat and squashed looking and if you tap on them with a hoof knife, it sounds like you are tapping on carbon fiber. They are quite hard. He floats like a butterfly across the hard ground. When he gets cut loose to the pasture for a couple hours, he waits in the paddock for the drafts to get out there first. This way, he has a reason to gallop after them. He gallops right across a rocky wash. It is an incredible thing to see.

His feet aren't perfect, as he is definately lacking the miles he needs, but they are very strong and well armored. That was his doing, not mine. Trim the frogs to the soles? Really?

You cannot sculpt a hoof to look like a natural wild hoof. You have to provide them the opportunity, they do the rest themselves.
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The above is my opinion, due diligence is your responsibility. Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level, and beat you with their experience.

havingfun · Member Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 48

Navonie's frog was getting to that point. I'm on her when she is on the very rocky trails so I was gradually increasing time there and never did more than a walk.

He trimmed ok when we first started with him. We had long talks and I was there the first couple of trims. It wasn't until we trusted enough to not be there that he screwed up. He didn't trim to shape to a mustang foot. It was ready for a shoe flat all the way around the edges. He changed the way he barefoot trims other people's horses as well.

Luckily other than Rio's arthritis, they have very good feet and will recover fine as they grow and toughen back up. They like their boots and the Renegades are easy to put on.

On a lighter note, I found another sweet spot on Navonie after our morning trail ride. She does the head stretch and twist with funny lips when I scratch her chest. Today she was lifting her hind leg and biting her inner thigh so I reached in and scratched it for her. Ohhh-happy mare. Happy mom too. My hands were cold and it was so warm in there.

spurrit · Member Joined: 27 Nov 2011 Posts: 17 Location: Kansas

Punch him in the nuts.
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gaitinalong · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 81 Location: Tennessee

Depending which side of the sawdust I woke up on the next morning, I might've called him back one more time just so I could lay the rasp up alongside his head----------------------

My barefoot trimmer had done my horses for three years and did them well.

Thennnnn his 30-something self got his BVD's in a twist over the antics of the mother of his daughter (they never married). He started letting those issss-uues get between the rasp and my horses hooves.

I took everyones hooves back - all 16 of them -- I didn't want to --- I am 64+ have a good case of arthritis in one hand and Level II Spondolothesis in my back -- but his work had gotten that shoddy.

You might just as well plan on doing their hooves until it's time to send them on to meet their ancestors since that's the only way you know they will get done correctly:?

Regarding the soles and frogs --- I slough them off as needed. If the sole is showing me it needs to shed, I carefully pare off what needs to go.

I have one horse that is slightly sickle hocked so the frog on one rear hoof would grow right over the heel (no kidding) if I let it go. I keep that trimmed. I shave off whatever "flapadoos" there might be on all the horses.

I have one horse with a less than Grade 1 Club Hoof so his front frogs require extra care because he's prone to thrush in them plus they don't grow very well thanks to the club hoof. He has the prettiest frogs on the rears that I could ask for but those front ones are just plain ugly and in need of constant care.

Other than that, soles and frogs get left alone on my four.

havingfun · Member Joined: 08 Mar 2009 Posts: 48

Hello,
I was surprised to see my old post pop back up!

To update: I have been trimming Navonie's hooves since the above incident. She is know barefoot full time including riding over our desert rocks. This includes volcanic, granite, and shale. She tells me when to trot which is more often than I want

We found a barefoot trimmer for Rio. He has funky pidgeon-toe, arthritic front feet. My husband trims him & Shaun checks his work every 8 weeks. At this point Shaun just gives hubby pointers. Rio still wears boots on the fronts on the trail but doesn't need them on the hinds anymore. He is totally barefoot for arena and road riding. He is still ridable at 26 with monthly Adequan shots.

Shaun has looked at Navonie's feet for me. Our trims are slightly different. He said she is moving so well that I need to keep doing what is working. I pretty much follow what I learned from the Pete Ramey DVDs.

The trimmer in the original post isn't used by anyone where I board anymore. He started doing a very good job and change how he did every horse destroying his business. Weird. With what happened to my income I glad though. I save lots of money doing their feet myself & they are moving better.