[PasoBaby_CarolU]

OK, what we're going to try here is this.  I am going take Rick off Moderation and set up this ARGUMENT thread in the Farrier Forum.   One would hope that "professionals" would be above this, but apparently not.  The ARGUMENT forum will be (largely) unModerated.  Anytime one feels the need to respond RUDELY, they WILL post "Please read my response in the ARGUMENT thread."  

If this ARGUMENT thread does not work to confine the fighting to this one thread, and it continues to hijack other threads, spills over to other areas of the forum, then ALL those being rude will be asked to leave this forum.  PERIOD.  I am SOOO tired of this.  Sorry, but I have better things to do then babysit adults, regardless of how passionate they feel about something.   You all take up more of my time then my own horse's feet do.  

We're going to try this.  I'm asking Erin to stay on here.  She will only have to say, "Take it to the ARGUMENT thread."  People who want to stay members of IATH will then do so.  Most of those involved have already been on probation once or twice, so consider this a last chance.  For other members who feel the need to take sides, please confine it to the ARGUMENT thread.  

It would also help to use the quote feature so people know what you are referring to.  Also paste in the thread URL that you are referring to, so someone who wants to read the latest fight can go there.

[Newfman]

I so wasn't planning on coming here, but the hell with it.

Really simply put, I have dedicated countless hours into learning, deciphering, rooting out and discarding or applying information, that puts me where I am with my 'beliefs' of how to take care of the hoof that is in a variety of conditions.  Granted, if a client came to me and said, Blackie ripped half his hoof capsule off in a trailering accident, My first response would be to give them Dave Whitaker's phone number, and instruct them to not take no for an answer (he's a busy guy) and contact the Vet that Dave prefers to work with.  I will be there for moral support, albeit with a steno pad and a video camera.  My mentor was a product of Dave's efforts, and since I trust her implicitly, I trust him.  That and he has good taste in beer, or so it seems.  Are we buddies?  Absolutely not.  Barely know each other, and aren't pen pals.  But, he said some things to me that made me know, he is exactly what I need for farriery back -up.  He is the ONLY one that truly impressed me as a farrier, completely.  Even if he doesn't give two shits about what I have to say.  And I am sure he doesn't.

(I'm assuming that this is a more open forum, or that will auto correct)

I love nothing more than to discuss (key word there) horse feet.  Yes, I have a hoof fetish of sorts.  I, as someone once said, download hoof porn on a regular basis.  It is one of the first things I think of in the morning, and what keeps me awake in bed analyzing late at night.  When I should be sleeping.  

So, when someone comes along, under false pretenses, trying to hide her identity, and pretend she is someone else, then callenges me to "Prove everything I say, and state references for everything I say, instead of comparing her understanding of the information or idea, so as to discuss the differences, then it is obvious that it is- personal.  Kind of hard for me not to have a hardened response.  Never trust a wolf in sheeps clothing.  Funny how the wolf analogy keeps working.  Kind of sad really, as I was a donor to the wolf program in Yellowstone, and normally, am quite taken with the creatures simple honesty.   Yet, you lack both honesty and sincerity.  Truly a conundrum.

If I say that the hoof wall should be straight from the coronary band to the toe and parallel the dorsal aspect of the coffin bone in my opinion, do I really need to state how many horses are in my care?  Does that have a single thing to do with it?  Do I have to provide references?  

If I say that the coffin bone should be medio-laterally parallel to the ground surface in my opinion, do I have state how many hooves I have trimmed and how often?  Does it matter how many horses are in my herd?  If you have an issue with it, one would think that you would simply say, I have found in this horse or that, that having the coffin bone tilted 3 degrees high on the medial side increases the functionality of this particular horses foot because I think....blah blah blah, or in such and such article submitted to the American Journal of Veterinary Medicine, Dr. Soenso, VMD, and diplomate of the American board of Veterinary Medicine stated this or that.  Not, How many horses did you trim today?  or your other little annoying questions.  Put your penis away Kim, I don't care how big you think it is.  It isn't relavent.  You win, yours is bigger.  Happy now?

You think calling me a "rabid BUAHer" on another forum somehow doesn't affect the level of respect I have for you or can bring myself to feign?  Does it not underscore the intent of every single post you make in response to me?  Absolutely.  Therefore, I have absolutely zero respect for you, and zero desire to answer to anymore of your questions, or allow myself to be personally challenged or hazed by you.

You think making this forum a friggin free-for-all is productive and acceptable?  Because you think that people like Howard Stern are examples of how people in society should really act, that being rude, and abusive should be acceptible behavior on this private Website?  There is a reason they are called 'shock jocks'.  They make their money, and lots of it, being socially unacceptable in a civilized society.  They get to trounce upon the first amendment with the threat to sue if you try to stop them.  Funny, I spent 7 years in service protecting the very right he twists for the sake of making a dollar.  He served how many years?  Um...zero was it?  Well guess what?  He is a shock jock there because the station knows that they have limited their listenership to a particular group of people.  They are content that there are that many people in the world that believe he is a great example of modern America.  Whatever.  He twists truths, and he belittles women.  Maybe you would like to be one of the nude girls in his sound booth getting spanked, but most decent women, or at least ones with self respect, find him to be chauvinistic and demeaning, and men of good character do so as well.  You have interesting heros.

I think that ultimately, you have a wealth of information.  But I find you to be such a crap person, I can't listen to it anymore.  If I owned Epona shoes, and read the way you present your point and their product, I'd publicly denounce you.  Again, really too bad.  A true opportunity defeated by ego and disregard for simple social skills.  But you have never had that pointed out before, right?

I liked Leah a lot, and thought she had a lot of good things to say, but somehow, she became aggressive about her positions.  Maybe it was me.  Wasn't my intention.  I apologized when I found I came off too strong.  And sometimes I did.  I think she went a little nuts, and now that I know that she is a friend of yours, and have seen that you are a product of Rick Burten, I no longer question where it comes from.  

To ensure that I am no longer adding to the destructive tone within the hoof care forum, and assuming that I actually decide to ever return to it, I will take your advice.  I will effectively turn the little knob and find a different station when you post.  I see no need for further communication with you, as it can only better the forum to ignore you, childish as that is.  

As far as us having a beer together in a pub and laughing, don't hold your breath.  I'm pretty particular about who I laugh with.

Breathing easy, but thanks for the advice.

[RickB.]

Kim a 'product' of me?  You really are dumber than a bat eating owl shit.

The problem I have with people like you is that you never start your sentences with "In my opinion" or the like.  You start off making statements, most of them either stupid, un-supportable a logical fallacy or downright wrong,  and then get all wadded up when you are called on it.  Things like saying "shoes cut off circulation in the hoof"  or "crenas are not very radio-opaque", or use the radiographs(lateral view) to determine Medial/lateral balance" or stating that you see sidebone or pedal osteitis in a lateral view radiograph, etc. ad naseum.

You've been asked about your hoof trimming curriculum vitae because you've said enough things to cause those with knowledge, an active BS sensor, and the ability to perform critical analysis and question the veracity of what's being said/written, to question your credibility and actual knowledge and ability.

Your words appeal to those who are desperate for information, in much the same way that a man dying of thirst in the desert will see the mirage of an oasis and because he knows no better, drink the sand.

It is only of late that you have started to say, after the fact, that your posts only represent your opinion.  A subtle way of locking the barn door after the livestock has escaped.

And, speaking of hiding one's identity, why don't we see you using your full  real name instead of some screen name? Or absent that, signing your posts with your real name?  Are you afraid to take responsibility for your words or just too cowardly to face the music uncloaked?
[quote=newfman]If I say that the coffin bone should be medio-laterally parallel to the ground surface in my opinion, do I have state how many hooves I have trimmed and how often? [/quote]
If asked, sure, why not?  Besides, you make it a habit of not saying "In my opinion" and even if/when you do, why are you either totally ignoring anyone who asks you why, or asks you to explain/substantiate your view(s).  

Somewhere on this forum, in a different thread, you were waxing loquatiously
about your horses running across the desert and keeping their feet trimmed up, blah, blah , blah.  And you made it appear that this was occurring in real time.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your profile states you live in Maine.  Now I am not a Geography PhD, but last I checked, there are no deserts in Maine.  So, what's up with that?

When I read stuff that folks like you write, I am reminded of the title of a book authored by Judge Judy Sheindlin "Don't Pee On My Leg and Tell Me Its Raining".

So there is no misunderstanding, these are the precepts by which I try to live my life.

Je pense donc je suis or for those who prefer Latin, Cogito ergo sum

Si vis pacem para bellum

[Kim Cassidy]

I too will test out if we can say what we want.

Nerfball, you are too much!  I have met Dave, he is a great guy.  How much time did you spend, wringing down and sweeping up with him?

When pulling down, do you squeeze the bottom rein or the top?  Do tell.

I didn't say Howard Stern is the epitomy of human society, or the example, I said I LOVE HIM and find his humor non offensive.  I love how you put words in my mouth.

So Dennis, are you ever going to answer the dang direct question.  DO YOU TRIM full time or is this a hobby?  How many horses a week do you service?

I used a screen name when I first came here, SO WHAT.  Is that breaking some rule.  I didn't say my name was Penny or Judy or Portia, I never signed a single post.

I just used a screen name, kinda like Newfie

So until you can prove you HAVE A CLUE and can actually spell the anatomical structures you are referring to, your "eggspurt" advice means diddly.

As for you denigrating the Epona's.  bahhahahahahahhahahaa  Do you even know how to drive a nail?  (gawd, I'm starting to sound just like a farrier... damn you Rick)

[Kim Cassidy]

[Hank]

Some people (Rick and Kim come to mind...) want to know your credentials because when you have trimmed 1000's of hooves, you begin to understand that none of the "ground parallel" ANYTHING is a RULE!!! Straight walls are NOT a RULE!!! Concave sole are NOT a RULE!!! Massive frogs are NOT a RULE!!!!

If you have done as much as you let on you do- you would have earned some humilty--the horses have a way of teaching you to be humble. Just about the time you think you have all of it figured out, another one will come along and show you how stupid you really are.

I have studied the barefoot way for at least 12 years, now. I have eaten, drank, ridden, slept, worked it. All I can prove with the 1000's of hooves I have held in my hand is that there are exceptions to EVERY. SINGLE. RULE. of barefoot.

I have been published in Jaime Jackson's book. At the time I was *almost* a TRUE BELIEVER--however, there are always exceptions and I find myself very glad I never closed my mind to TRUTH!!!!

I am very sorry for some of the things I did to horses in the name of barefoot. Especially espousing it like a religion and denying my own horse the comfort of shoes for a decade. Listening to anybody just because their creed was "barefoot is best"... sometimes it's NOT.

Newfman, I understand where you are, believe me. Kim does, too, and she is trying to spare you a whole bunch of grief--when the TRUTH finally does sink in...cuz you are going to have a crisis...

Ruth Allison (Green) Hamilton

[learningthedance]

[RickB.]

Nice try at deflection and obfuscation Elise.  How about answering the question with a CV* ora resume'?

*Curriculum Vitae

[Kim Cassidy]

[learningthedance]

[rotate88]

Now this is the most refreshing stuff I have read in days.

Kim, I have found that the rectally placed eponas sit better with glue instead of nails...seriously, I am about to try them on my other two mares.  The mustang has proven impossible to screw up...boringly hardy hooves, that one.

Rick, I have always liked "Quod erat demonstratum."  Unfortunately I am only qualified to use it in piano teaching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[PasoBaby_CarolU]

[Kim Cassidy]

Bahahahaha Dave, Monty Python is classic!

Thanks for the laugh.

[bit]

Dumber than an owl eating bat shit?  Laughed so hard I peed a little.

[Yes_But_Neigh]

LOVED that clip! People from the Marin area need to go to this!

[alexwein]