Back from Buck

bit · Back from Buck

10 hours there, 10 hours back, 4 days, and I'm in a clnic coma. Amanda said I looked like I did in the pictures after I gave birth to her. hmmmm. That bad? Yep.
As Brent's wife said, "bring your big girl pants". Buck can be pretty brutal. I didn't get the idea that he really cares much if the human learns anything, but his compassion for the horse is lovely. He tells ya, and if you don't listen and try, you are off his radar. He knew my name by the end, and he always gave me the good deal. Sounded a bit like a drill sargent most of the time. Was not impressed with my treeless saddle, but I didn't much care. I learned a lot, Eclipse and I were even more bonded for the experience, and I've never gotten such consistant softness from her. Hate, hate, hate my english reins, now. I have a much better idea of how to time the reins to the feet. What makes what foot move, what doesn't, and I do a much better back. Eclipse backs great, and listens to me, now. A few folks came up and told me my riding had improved a lot. Loved my horse, and wanted to know if she was a morgan. lol. No, but she lives next do to them, wants to be one, and would like to have the morgan stallion's babies.
I'll post some pictures later.

becdubie

wow, long trip.
What level clinic?

DaisyMae

I am so envious of you guys being able to go to his clinics, maybe one day he'll come to England.

So, exactly why didn't he like your saddle? I hope he gave his reasons.

merle · Re: Back from Buck

bit

He'd sit there and listen to people complain about their horses being lazy, bracey, whatever and tell them why it was them that created what they were seeing. Most didn't listen. One lady who was auditing asked him about something, so when he stopped he said, "where's that woman that asked about..." She was off on her cell phone. He got pretty frustrated. I just laughed because I knew she didn't want to know the answer.
I'd clinic with him again. I'm not the same becasue of him. Neither is Eclipse. I don't feel like my tool box is so sparse anymore. I'm pretty confident in hopping back on Hawk. I know what to do now. I'm pretty excited. It was an loa thang, for sure. I got about two weeks? notice that I was going. I needed a miracle, and man did I get one!
I did the morning horsemanship 1. I sure would like to do cows some time. I think Hawkie would like cutting.

cynthia peterson

Bit, I was auditing on the last day of that clinic (Monday) and I did see you. I thought your horse was a Morgan too. You looked good. I drove over 4 hours each way.

I thought Buck was in better mood then usual. Sure, he got on people when they needed it. One gal (the one with the backing the right direction problem) is a good example. And I took it she was the type who could take it and learn with it and not be crushed (I think he sensed that.) I like the "just tell me what I need to do" way too, then the pussyfooting around.

I love how he had the grey mare with 3 or 4 weeks of riding and his bridle horse. It showed the "where it begins with" and where you can be.

AlythLong

Buck is coming to New Zealand early next year, and I am looking forward to auditing.......not brave enought to ride - yet!

ErinR76

Ah Alyth, if you can show up in a learning frame of mind and just be saying to yourself, I am here to learn and I'm going to try my best, and ask questions if I need to, you'd be just fine to ride! Sure he doesn't pussyfoot around, but he is not mean by any stretch of the imagination. Someone, maybe, who takes offense easily (has a 'I am a victim' mindset about life in general) would not like his clinics, but most everyone else who wants to learn, he is there to help! I really liked him. I rode in two clinics so far with him.

In my first clinic, I had my black synthetic Wintec western saddle, and I asked him if it fit her, and he said no it pinches her shoulders, and I said should I go get my other saddle, a treeless? And he said yes. I get the impression he doesn't personally recommend them because he ropes, etc, and has no practical use for a treeless in his lifestyle/discipline. He has said many times that he doesn't care what we ride in as long as we are giving our horse a good deal.

Yeah he gets pretty SOUR when people are either not paying attention, not trying, or even ARGUING with what he is there to teach. Clinics are a forum for learning, not arguing. If your attitude is ASKING because you want to understand, he is not rude and sour.

At the end of our clinic (there were no people there that were not trying or paying attention; we were all grateful to be there and learn and we all did learn,) he actually started to get choked up at the end when he bade us goodbye and had to stop talking for like a second. He said "Y'all are the reason I am here and I don't know what I would do without you guys."

maccold

There's no reason why anyone need to be brave to ride with Buck! He's truly seems to be a good person and is a wonderful teacher. I had several problems at the clinic and he never made me feel bad or stupid. I guess if you planned to go argue with him . . . but it's never made sense to go argue with someone you're paying to teach you.

sebocat

Was Buck in AK and I missed it?

AlythLong

I certainly have no intention of arguing with Buck!! That idea is preposterous!!! However I do like to audit a clinician before riding with him/her........and I am not sure how Buck would take my "English" "natural" ideals!!! For instance I ride bitless and wouldn't want to use a bit, just for his clinic.....also I am not a competetive or dedicated rider, I ride for my pleasure. And again, I have some fears - "blind spots" - or problems and Buck may or may not be prepared to address these!!! I prefer to audit first and ask questions before putting myself into the fray!!! So time will tell. If I enjoy and learn from auditing when he visits our country again I might well ride - if I can afford it!!!

PasoBaby_CarolU

Despite all the hero-worship, Buck is human just like everyone else. That is what Smokie has tried to tell us. I've heard of/from more then one person who left his or Ray Hunt's clinics in tears or very upset. Likewise, for Buck just as any other clinician, training the horses is the EASY part. People have egos, both overly large or very fragile. Either extreme is hard to deal with and much more difficult when they are paying you to help them.

I am with you Alyth, I would rather audit and take what I need or want from his clinics then "just ride" young horses or go very far on the Bridlehorse path. It is what I grew up with and not right for me or my horses. But, there is a lot I have learned from Buck and I do appreciate his honesty and quiet humor. He reminds me of several horsemen of my youth. They just don't make them like him anymore, probably because very few people make their living on and with horses these days.

And I've found, that unless I'm working on something specific with one horse, I gain more by auditing a clinic then riding. When riding you focus pretty much on your horse and working it. You miss a lot of what goes on around you. When auditing you also get to learn what happens with other horses and riders. It certainly helps when you are then teaching or applying it to other horses and people.

coveredbridgefarm

Carol wrote:

bit

Eclipse and I were in the morning clnic, and audited the cow clinic. So we got a bit of riding and a bit of auditing. Glad I rode, because it's real hard for me to learn from watching someone. I have to feel it to learn it. Plus Buck was real good about tweaking what I was doing to make it better. You don't get that if you audit. He isn't too keen on english reins, and by the end of the second day I said rather loudly, "I hate my reins!" and he cracked up. Real hard to slide down your reins when they are built for gripping. He said that he didn't like treeless saddles because they can rub the back of a horse raw, but I did check Eclipse's back and she had even sweat marks and no rubs. I think it depends on the saddle, the pad, and the rider. My ego wasn't damaged when he ranted about my type of reins or my type of saddle The girl I went with seemed to take everything he said, personally. Guess I just don't much care what someone says as long as I get the good deal and it helps me and my horse.
I know he gets pretty frustrated with people, but I think it's because he wants to help the horse so badly. He talked about dedication and commitment, and how a lot of folks are weekend warriors and how they want their horses to be like his. They aren't going to get what he has because they just don't show up like they need to. This touched me, hard. I've got no excuses why I can't be working with my horses every day. I have the time, and now I have the tools. I'm not sure I had the dedication. I do now.
It's funny how you'll take one or two things back with you that really touch you or your horse. By riding, and by auditing, I got both. I was a little star struck at first, but we got on down to business pretty quick and then he was just someone who was trying real hard to give me what I needed to help my horse.
So, ride or audit? I'd say both. No reason not to do both. Alyth, he's going to rant about bitless, and you can take it personal, or you can ride your horse. It's your try he wants, just like it's your horses try that you want. Personally, I'd say ride. Ride and learn and ride some more. You can audit the cow part. The cow working part is all about riding too. Not a lot of moving cows because he teaches you how to ride to move a cow most of the time. If there are even any rider spots open, (50 person wait list here) RIDE!

maccold

I think it depends on your own learning style. I learn so much more when riding than I do auditing. Like bit, I rode in the morning and audited in the afternoon. If you learn better by auditing, go for it. Or if you want to see if he'd be a good fit, that's fine too. I'd just say don't be afraid because someone said he was rude or mean or whatever.

As for clinician worship, I can confidently say I don't have that. Just because some people do doesn't mean BB isn't an excellent horseman to learn from. I try to learn from the best horsemen I can find. And I have no desire to make a bridle horse but I still learned quite a lot that I am putting to good use today. Take what applies to you. There was a H/J trainer at our clinic who didn't agree with everything BB said but yet rides with him every year.

Suz- I'm in Oklahoma now. I rode in the Texas clinic with Erin. If you want to come down next time he is OK or TX, you have a ride and a place to stay.

misstux

I learn both ways and was hoping to take Mr. Strider next year when he comes to California, even though I can only ride 3 days in a row. Now it's just wait and see. If Strides doesn't recover, I won't even go audit.

bit

One thing that Buck said to us really hit home for me. He said, buy yourself a good saddle. A real good saddle and just buy one. Just ordered a Henderson custom saddle for Eclipse. Yep, going back to western and pretty happy with my decision. Just need to figure out a good western head stall set up. Have a nice headstall but will need slobber straps and rope reins. Keeping the treeless for an extra saddle. Selling the endurance and dressage saddle.
Talk about loa, Skip at Henderson just "happened" to have a saddle that he had started for someone else that changed their mind. Instead of a year, it'll only be a few weeks before it's finished.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Didn't you just get the dressage saddle for your Centered riding lessons? Are you still taking them?

I might agree with Buck, but I've never seen one saddle, especially a treed saddle, fit a number of different horses. I guess if you always rode the same type/build of horse you could, but I don't and can't.

becdubie

Just some food for thought....

I for one, talking about me and me alone, go through phases where I overanalyze my tools......... Remember when I auditd the Buck clinic and though it would be "cool" to put Bubba in a Bosel hackamore? At that same time I was thinking I needed a new heavy duty western saddle, some chinks, and a lariate too.....
...I've come back to keeping it simple, none of that will make me a better horseman. The PNH hackamore is working just fine, my aussie saddle is perfect for Bubba ( know..... I know... you all sounded the alarm when you saw pictures of it, but he likes it better than the treeless so I'm sticking with it...he is narrow with high withers and it fits him just fine). My Aspen BF treeless is perfect for Rusty he is happy in it and we have been venturing up and down the hills now.
....just me talking outloud, but I'm finally getting up over the hill and rounding the corner from being very unconfident to starting to get confident....that is the tool that I need to continue to work on...me.

So I realize that different saddles are good for different things....but have to remind myself not to have a kneejerk reaction and spend $ on something I may not want/need a year from now.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Copious_Amour

ErinR76

Most people in the foundation horsemanship class or horsemanship one class are either in the snaffle or hackamore, so there's lots to learn from in a buck clinic even if you never plan on your horse seeing a spade bit.

As long as your bitless horse isn't careening out of control in his clinic, he's not going to require that you put a bit in either.

It comes down to the right tool for the job, and if he's trying to teach you flexions (just picking flexions out of the air, it might not be the best example) and your request in a bitless isn't making sense to your horse, that is when he might suggest you might get a better result. It's all about the right tool for communicating with the horse, and if bitless is doing the job, I'm pretty sure you'll be fine. It's that way with everything (tackwise and toolwise).

I do notice that I 're-evaluate' the effectiveness of my tack! I have three saddles because of this and I've sold two others. I like to shop around and find out what I like. Sometimes I let fashion guide my purchases, but I always come back to what works the best for me and/or my horse. I have WAY more tack than a person with one horse should have. Probably have seven halters, six bridles, as many bits, and about three sets of grooming tack (in addition to the saddles). I'm sure some of you have more. I can't help it. It's fun to play dress up!

Back to the clinic thing and whether to audit or participate: I will say that being in the clinic, yes you have tunnel vision and can't see what's going on with other people's horses and learn from that, really. So that's the downside. You get to audit the afternoon portion though, so even if you ride, there's still the other half of the day you get to audit (for 'free). That was enough for me. I took advantage of riding while I could, because for me, the money was there, and the clinician was there, and shit happens and I might not have gotten another chance another time. Accidents happen; either me or my horse or the clinician could die tomorrow, who knows! So I took a chance and was glad that I did. No regrets! There was plenty of learning from others when I audited the second half of the day. I took seven pages of notes (I'd write at the end of each day) in the half I participated in, and another seven to ten pages of the classes that I audited.

ElaineW

This is a pretty good Thread, as always I am enjoying reading everyones thoughts on these subjects.
For myself I feel I am at the point I need to ride in a clinic. I have read everything I can get my hands on, watched the dvd's over and over, read some more, watched You tube video's.
Now I need someone to be there to answer my questions and give me some help! next year I plan to ride in a clinic.. and I can't wait!

It was neat to audit buck's clinic and see all the different kinds of horses, tack and people! I would feel comfortable riding with him.

The whole bitless debate is interesting,, I think the problem would come from people not teaching the horse how to properly respond to the tool.
Some have a 'holier than thou' attitude, "I use NO Bit, won't use one, they are harsh, your bad for using a bit" etc.. but when I see photo's, or people riding in these bitless set ups the horses are blowing through them, or their hands are whiteknuckling the reins! The horse gets NO release.. I don't see how that's any better than a bit.
I went through the over analyzing phase as well. I finally settled on a saddle that works for us.. I can say everything I have and use is cause I like it,, not cause any one clinican tells me, or i want to look like they do..
I am now wanting my head gear to be LITE.. I had pnh slobber straps, that big heavy pnh rope mecate. the older that mecate gets the heavier it gets. I don't like the thickness of that rope either.
After some thought I found a nice mane mecate that's 1/2 inch and found some nice lighter slobber straps..

we all just have to find out what works for us!

bit

Lesson learned, never buy a saddle on ebay. Ok, my treeless was a great find but the dressage saddle doesn't fit Eclipse so it's back on ebay and I hope someone will buy it and enjoy it.
I love my treeless saddle, but it does put me in a chair position unless I really watch it. From using english reins and rope reins, I prefer rope reins. I don't have to fit several horses, just one. Hawkie will be going to a great human, I hope.
I really like the Henderson, it'll fit my horse, and me. Never had a saddle built for my horse and my non existant butt. I'll be able to sell it for just about what I paid for it. These saddles are dang nice.
I know this may be an insane thing to say, but Eclipse is my last pony. I don't plan on any more horses. Three is plenty and Eclipse is a dream of a horse. We are real bonded up and trust each other. I figure we'll both be crossing that rainbow bridge about the same time, and that works for me.
Change can be a good thing. Figuring out what kind of riding I like, guess will be one of those things that change once in a while. I sure like dressage, but not for the trail. Considering how often I ride in an arena, it's not that often. So yeah, I got a couple of extra bridles, bits, and such. Like Buck said, spend the money and get what you want. Or you'll end up with a lot of extra stuff. Makes great wall decor in my horsey themed downstairs living room!

Copious_Amour

PasoBaby_CarolU

Sunny Acres Ranch

Several years ago, I met an 80-year-old man at a team penning. He was riding a hot little Arab mare, and he could RIDE! He told me his mare was pregnant, and he was planning on breaking her baby for his next penning horse. Now, THAT is optimism!

Hope I'm still going like that at that age.

CoolsLadyInRed

ErinR76

Back from Buck

Re: Back from Buck