barefoot or shoes

bit · barefoot or shoes

Gunner, who is alway in shoes except for a little while in the winter (previous owner) is now barefoot, bruised, and abscessing on one foot. The vet said that he has very thin soles, and if I want to use him, I need to shoe him. I know going barefoot can be a process. I sure would like to ride him this summer. Shoot, I"d like to ride hime now. On the way to wal mart to buy diapers (never thought I'd be doing this again) to pad Gunners paw. Have him on antibiotics because abscess goes very deep, it may not burst.
I'd like to hear what you barefoot folks and you shoe folks have to say. I won't be doing anything until he heals up. Thanks

PasoBaby_CarolU

I shoe my trail horses every summer. Zar has thin soles and is always ouchy on rocks if I don't. I've never EVER harmed a horse with shoes.

I always believe in doing what is right for the horse.

appellativo

I know I sound like a broken record, but I'd approach it from the 'That's My Horse' video series. That method seems to allow the building of sole in a reasonable short period of time. Of course your mileage may vary. Maybe you'll decide to shoe for the spring/summer so you can ride, then do the rehabbing in the winter months again.

bit

Carol, I'm thinking it might be a good idea. We have another week, at least to soak and diaper him up. He's pretty sore on it right now, and thankfully the footing in the pasture is good and soft. It's March, so who knows if we'll freeze up and get snow again. Right now mid 40's and 50's by Thursday. I have high hopes that spring has arrived and we will be enjoying great weather from here on out. I can dream. I'll check out that site on transitioning thin soles. Poor guy may just need shoes, and that's how it will have to go. If I pull them next winter, he's just going to have the same issues. Carol, do you deal with this stuff after pulling shoes in the fall?

ForgeNHammer

Horses have been shod for hundreds of years. Unfortunately IMO with todays horses (not all but, a lot) they must be shod to be in work. I shoe mostly 3 day horses and hunters, and if it weren't for regular shoeings there is no way these horses could do what they do. If he needs shoes then shoe him and don't feel bad when the barefoot nazi's say your ruining your horse, your not.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Deb, in my barefoot experiment I cut up Rosie's soles very bad. She was very tender. I put her on shavings and then treated her soles with DuraSol. It worked great. I just followed the directions.

Horseshoe Creek

Why not boots while his sole builds up again? At least for the time you have him barefoot.

Chris

xenophon · barefoot or shoes

I consider my herd of five to be a laboratory when it comes to barefooting it and so far I have seen nothing to cause me to want to put shoes on any of my four horses and one mule. It was a long road to get their feet where I thought they should be once I started trimming them myself, but we have arrived.

My warmblood developed an abscess about 2 months into my experiment that was a very serious situation, but he has recovered and I ride him everywhere barefoot, which can cover some pretty rough ground for short periods of time. If I even suspect that the ground will be rough for longer periods of time I just boot him.

What it comes down to is, if you want to shoe your horse, make sure it is done right. If you want to go with the barefoot trim, make sure it is done right.

bit

I'm not booting him, because I'm soaking him 3x's a day. Soaking makes his hoof soft, and if the boot rubs ANYWHERE, it can do more damage than good. He's doing better, and footiing is great now. We are due for rain this weekend. It's so nice right now. Took Eclipse out pasture riding, 50's, beautiful day, perfect temps, great footing. It's all going to hell this weekend, again.

I'm wondering if I should box stall him till things dry out again, while I have him in a diaper and duct tape. Nope, I don't have a problem shoeing him. I love barefoot, it's easy, and even Bitty is getting some lovely concavity. She had the flatest feet ever! I have some durasole, and wondered about using it if he's going to blow more abscess. Would that keep him from blowing them, and would that be a bad thing?

PasoBaby_CarolU

I think it depends on the cause of the abscesses. If they are deep inside the hoof, then Durasol won't prevent them. If they are all from soft soles, Durasole helps toughen the sole, so you wouldn't get the stone bruises that lead to the abscesses.

I have found that duct taping on rubber mats lasts longer then diapers. I bought the 1/2" thick kitchen mats at WalMart...one $7 mat makes about 30 pads. You can use mouse pads, but they are a lot more expensive. Diapers lasted half a day if I was lucky. Pads with tape last 3-4 days.

bit

The vet used to work at a throughbred farm and she said abscess happened all the time there. She told me to put out 5 strips of duct tape, lay side by side, slightly overlapping, and then do it again and then overlap them, double layer, and it lasts all day.

alexwein

Mandy'sMarty

A friend of mine has used this technique on abscesses with success. I have also used it on Mandy with a minor abscess and she was fine the next day.
Pack the hoof with Dynamite's Miracle Clay and daily boot that foot for an hour or so...longer if you can supervise the horse. The Miracle Clay is a swelling type calcium bentonite clay which will draw the abscess out. This works much faster than soaking in Epsom salts. I used a Davis soaking boot and put Mandy in a paddock so that I could find the boot if she removed it. I packed her sole, frog, collateral and central grooves and heel bulbs with the Clay and slipped her foot into the boot.

You can probably achieve the same results by using heavy plastic held in place with duct tape. I would first experiment with a 12" X 12" piece cut from something like a heavy duty black plastic debris bag from Home Depot, lay it down over strips of duct tape, and set the foot down on top, then wrapping the foot with the folded plastic and securing with the duct tape. Trim the plastic to fit the foot so that the duct tape either touches only the hoof wall, or the plastic wrapped around the fetlock so that it does not touch the hair.
Similar to what alexwein described, but with the additional plastic as a barrier to contain the Clay against the foot.

Pedestal*Pony

What about just puttng front shoes on? How do you all feel about that?

I havent shoed in a long time so I dont know if blacksmith's even do that any more.

I am going to put shoes on my new gelding because I will be doing alot of trail riding in the mountains this summer and I need this hoof to be supported.

bit

I had Bitty shod up front when I lived in Mammoth. We didn't just have rocks, we were one. I sure would like to keep him barefoot, but may end up shoeing the front. Dunno. I'll have Kelsey take a look at him and see what he needs. That's quite the crack on the hoof. Ouch!

learningthedance

I have never tried these, but if I was in a situation that I felt shoes were absolutely necessary, I would look into these.

http://www.eponashoe.com/ Not sure if Forge has ever worked with them or not, but it would great to hear some feedback from first hand experience.

I think these would be meeting in the middle of barefoot/shod and thanks to jokersmama for posting this link before.

bit

My trimmer has them, they don't stay glued on, and she will not put a nail into a horses foot. It takes two. Not an option in this area for me. I wouldn't go to someone not certified in their application, from what I've read.

LaPrincipessa

Just a story from someone who's gone back and forth . . .

My mare started barefoot and then I kept her in front shoes and then I tried barefoot again and now she's in shoes on all four feet except for twice a year when I pull her shoes to allow her foot some healing time.

Genetics, conditioning and environment all play a role in the health of a horse's foot. Any two can make up for deficiencies in the other but two strikes and it just might not be the best course for a particular horse. Cricket has great looking feet but she is so obviously uncomfortable barefoot. It's not just ouchy over gravel, it's short-striding in a sand arena or a general unwillingness to move more than absolutely necessary.

For two years I had competent barefoot trimmers working on her. There was never an obvious reason to put shoes on her. Until Gene Ovnicek came through for a clinic and had a good look at her. He gave me some good reasons to try shoeing her all the way around. We did and the immediate change in her posture and movement was obvious.

When I "lost" (long, ugly story) my farrier I went back to barefoot and Cricket went back to being unhappy. I found a new farrier (Natural Balance) and Cricket went back in shoes and I found my happy horse again.

I gave barefoot an honest try, I really did. I wanted to keep Cricket barefoot but I also want her to be happy being ridden. Couldn't have both.

If you truly think your horse would be better in shoes, find a competent farrier. There are lots of ways to shoe a horse that provide minimal interference with his natural biomechanics. A barefoot horse that is perpetually sore can do as much damage to the internal structures of his foot as a poorly shod horse. Any horse landing toe first will inhibit the natural function of his foot, barefoot or shod.

AlythLong

Those of you that shoe your horses, how do you feel about hoof mechanism? Do you think shoeing helps or hinders this? Can you explain what it is? How do you feel about the frog? Should it be in contact with the ground? Does shoeing enable this to happen? If not, does it have a detrimental effect? What is the purpose of the frog?

Looking forward to a variety of answers!! Alyth

LaPrincipessa

Alyth,
I shoe my horse - all four feet. I feel very strongly about hoof mechanism. It's one of the reasons I've chosen to use Natural Balance shoes on Cricket. A couple years ago we had Gene Ovnicek come for a clinic. The first evening was a lecture about hoof function and mechanism. While a bare hoof is best, you can learn from the way a wild horse wears their foot how it functions as the horse moves. From that understanding, Gene developed Natural Balance shoes to mimic, as best as possible, the way a natural hoof needs to function.

In normal hoof mechanism, the frog should have passive ground contact. The horse should land heel first and as his foot comes in contact with the ground, the frog should contact the ground but not necessarily bear weight. Does that make sense? A frog that is too bulbous will bear weight and potentially cause heel pain/discomfort. Without passive ground contact, the frog cannot function. As I understand it, the frog works as a sort of "heart" on the horse's hoof. Pressure from ground contact helps circulate the blood through the horse's legs. Due to the absence of muscle tissue below the knee/hock, horses can suffer limited circulation in their extremeties. The frog helps move blood through the foot and lower leg.

Cricket's frog will grow to accomodate the little bit of lift her shoes provide. So she can have ground contact with her frog even in shoes. I like the Natural Balance shoes because they do everthing possible to alleviate the torque on her movement that can be caused by "normal" shoeing.

And please, just so every one knows, I don't follow the Parelli idea of Natural Balance. I do not want to get into an arguement over the Parelli approach to hoof care. My farrier is a true Natural Balance farrier, adhereing to the way Gene taught him. So many people have a negative view of Natural Balance because of Jim Crew and the Parelli's. Jim Crew may use Natural Balance shoes but he's not a NB farrier.

calatar

LaPrincipessa

calatar - No farrier is perfect. The guy I use is great and I've been very pleased with how well Cricket is responding to his shoeing. Even more pleased that when he trims her barefoot during our off cycles, she seems more comfy than any previous barefoot trimmer. I have several friends that use him for both barefoot horses and shod horses. We've all been happy for the 2-3 years we've been using him.

The thing I try to remember is where I started out. The farrier who tended my first horse was HORRIBLE. I cannot stress how bad he was. His general approach - trim the hoof, apply the shoe and then trim the hoof to fit the shoe. I cringe at the fact I used him for over a year on my TB. But I didn't know any better. And my focus was pulled in so many directions, I didn't even realize I needed to know better. When I got Cricket, I had more room to breathe. And I had room to start thinking about more than just survival. With her, I started the journey into learning about hoof care.

I do not fault the Parellis for their choice in farrier. They are learning, just like everyone else. What I wonder about is how much they checked the credentials and long-term effectiveness of the man they promote as "God's gift to the equine foot." I've met Jim Crew. Knew him before the Parellis had ever heard of him. He worked on several horses around here. And that's about all I'm going to say. Except that I wouldn't let him touch Cricket with a 10 foot pole. I do hear, from a friend of mine, that he works on several horses and actually does a good job. Will wonders never cease.

Chablis

I've been thinking about this for a while and come to the conclusion, that it really depends on how good the farrier or trimmer is that looks after your horses hooves. Not all farriers or trimmers are good.

If I had access to an excellent farrier, who knew a great deal about hooves, I would be using him or her to educate me about hooves/trim my horses hooves. If a local trimmer was better than the local farriers, I would be using him or her instead.

Pretty simple.

AlythLong

Thanks for all that information. I still cannot understand how any shoe either nailed or glued on can enable the hoof to expand and contract.

I have also found that the more the hoof is trimmed, either by riding or the rasp, the more it grows. As my fingernails do!!!

And I have also found that when the frog doesn't connect with the ground the digital cushion degenerates. And this causes pain and problems!!

Alyth

bit

I had Gunner all set up for his shoes this weekend, but had the vet out to take another look and we decided to soak, up his antibiotics, and give it a little more time. His feet look really good, and it's just this one dang abscess that's making his life ugly. My trimmer loaned me a soaking boot to make that process a bit easier. Man, it sure is a lot better using a soaking boot. I've perfected the art of diaper/duct tape boots. The vet was impressed and said, "you should sell those!!!!" My trimmer also has a used pair of Renagade's that she is willing to sell me cheap in his size, so maybe barefoot is in his future.
I don't have a thing against shoeing a horse to keep him happy, but Gunner is happy except for this abscess. His feet are growing out beautifully, the little lines on his feet from his diet before moving here are growing out and there's perfect hoof at the top 2 inches. The bottoms are beautiful! Probably due to good diet, and good supplements. Gonna give this a try and keep an open mind on the shoe thing.