barnsour, Eclipse's journey

bit · barnsour, Eclipse's journey

Eclipse is a Missouri fox trotter, very opinionated, not very friendly with other horses, and very, very barn sour. I'm not talking herd sour, because that would mean she cared about getting back to the herd. She doesn't. I've seen her walk away from the whole herd and head for greener pastures, literally. Nope, she just wants to get back to whatever it is she wants to do, and it ain't heading down the road with a human.
Eclipse is pretty much bomb proof. She's a great trail horse, gaited, and a blast to ride...until it's time to head home. Just sucks arguing all the way home with her.
I asked Kelsey to work with her about a week ago, and not only is Ms. Eclipse doing much better, she's lost a ton of weight! I've read up on the different approaches to training a barn sour horse. Buck takes them out, folds his arms, doesn't touch the reins, and works em hard around the herd and let em walk over to that patch of grass and shade. If they want to head back, he works em hard again. I read one of Mark Rashid's books a while back, and his approach to a horse that wanted to run home was to let him. Let him run all the way home and run him another few miles since he wanted to run so bad, and by that time the horse was pretty happy to walk back.
I think Kelsy's approach is somewhere in between. I got to sample Kelsey's way a bit tonight. We trailered about two miles down the road to play in my friends arena, and I suggested we ride home and come back and get the truck and trailer. One of the neighbors was team pennning close to my house in his arena, and I wanted to give Gunner a chance to hang with some cows. He is terrified of them. After we watched the cows (Gunner finally settled and we set up a play date for him and a calf we know) it was time to go home.
I was on Eclipse and she decided she was going to get there at her own speed. Kelsey (in her teaching voice, you know the one) told me to let her go fast, turn her and let her walk away from home. Ok, so I get her going, turn her, and she was very unhappy about the walking back thing. lol, the next time down the road, Kelsey said to not hold her back at all and in fact, make her go faster than she really wants to go. Woo hoo! I know I wasn't on a racking horse, but we were flying! So fun! Then, I turned her and we walked back like a drunken sailor. Off we go again, zooooom, and this time I tried some serpintines walking back. Brent suggested I give that a try if she starts to go faster than I want. I got to go a couple of more times before Kelsey took over.
By now it was dark, and all I could hear was Eclipse's hoofbeats and Kelsey laughing her ass off. Eclipse was MOOOOOOVVVVING! Kelsey was having a blast, and it spilled right out in laughter. I tell ya, there's nothing like putting the pedal to the medal and gaiting full speed down a dirt road. I know she cantered her, because I could almost see them. Gunner is so cool, he didn't even care that Eclipse was leaving him at full speed, cause she always came back! Kesley and I got home at the same time, her racing back and forth and me and ole Gunner plodding along all slow and easy. Oh, and by that last pass? She was walking nice and calm, just happy to be walking. I think she probably dropped another 50 pounds, too.
I'll let ya'll know how Gunner does with his new friend, the calf. I'll take pictures. I'll be sure to take pictures of Kelsey and Ecipse tomorrow night, too. Her mane will be flying agian!

Yes_But_Neigh

Oh Boy! Do I ever LOVE that approach! I was on a 2 year old Tenn Walker gelding (I was told he was 5 or else I wouldn't have ridden him) who spooked at some sheep and decided to take off bolting in the other direction. I said "Oh yeah?" then urged him to go as FAST as he could and when he gave me that, I pushed for faster, wasn't even a minute that went by that he slowed down to a walk. "Well that's no fun! She's making me run!" It's a very interesting technique! I love your descriptions of Kelsey's training.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Buck's method is just like Clinton's, and I have to say they work pretty well. My method I got from John Lyons. Go a little ways away (like out of site around the house) and come back, do it again and again until they settle with the idea they are coming back. Then go farther away and/or stay out of site longer and come back. This works really well, especially if you don't have a good working place near your barn.

I do find the 'headed home gait' is a common problem with gaited horses, not that they are more barn sour then any other, but they are so SMOOTH people let them get away with it rather then correct it, and it becomes a learned behavior.

Sounds like a good time. Also sounds like since Kelsey is there you are doing a lot more riding. Good on you!

bit

I tried the little bit away thing with her, Carol. She is pretty determined, no matter what, no matter how many times. This is the first time she's said, "ok, let's go slow before I pass out". Kidding, but she just isn't a compliant mare. She thinks, she has an opinion, and she will argue about it. lol, Kelsey is a little like Eclipse, so it has been the great meeting of the minds! The cool shadow pictures Kelsey posted are from a windy day teaching Ecipse that going home fast is not such a good idea.

Something I've learned from this, every horse is different, and you have to find what works with YOUR horse. If one thing doesn't work, you try something else, and you keep trying until the horse learns. Just like my ski team kids, there were 80 different ways of learning the same thing, and I had to get pretty creative to find what worked for each kid. Can't give up and think that your horse just won't learn, or they are too stubborn to learn. You just haven't figured out HOW they learn what you are trying to teach. That's when getting creative is so important. Kelsey is just one of those kids that can read a horse and figure it out. Feeling pretty fortunate to have her around. Having a blast watching her, and riding with her. Hawkie has met his match...but I think all horses probably feel that way with her. I'm a bit jealous.

carefreegirl

My first horse, starting developing the 'I need to get home asap,' and the way I nipped it in the butt was similar.

We'd be going along, me choosing the gait, and if he sped up then we would immediately head the opposite direction-which he would then (usually) immediately slow down, we'd head that way for a while, until he was completely calm, and no longer thinking about heading home (usually twice as far as he thought we should), and then turn around again, as soon as he sped up (even a faster walk then what I wanted), we'd whip around again and head the other direction. Occasionally I'd ask for speed while heading away from home, then asking him to walk before turning around again, I also used backing up on occasion--having him back up towards home and away...then once we were finally able to get home, we'd ride for another half hour or more in the pasture, usually hard work, and then ride a short distance back away from home to cool down; sometimes we'd even go back out on another ride, and repeat the process.

it took about 2 weeks of being very consistent and persistent on every ride, but then he was an angel, I could canter him towards home and ask for him to slow down at any point and he would with no complaint or resistance to the suggestion to slow down, he knew that just cause we were heading home did not mean we were done,

I kept him that way by not getting into a routine myself, I did my best to end our rides at different points--even occasionally going back to going back on another ride after coming home, or heading away from home on occasion as our cool down (sometimes getting off and loosening the girth before we even got home)...and avoiding going faster then a walk for the last 1/4 a mile or so before reaching home. it made it so he never expected to always be done once he reached home, and he expected to walk right before reaching home. kinda like Pat says, that they do what we program them to do, even if we don't realize that we are programing them to do that.

good luck, I know that if you are persistent and consistent, you'll change her mind about running home.

thelmanelle

I had an Arabian that had been taught to run at the foot in the left stirrup. That took a year and a half to stop. Not to mention, stop him from rearing up every time he got tacked...I tighten very slowly and give a treat then do something else.... gradually we ride.

Heading back was a run to the finish, being an endurance horse...Zippy! So I would actually get off of him and walk several miles back singing and talking to him to let him know we did not have to run back to the barn.

He still never gave it up...he is gone now. But, he was such a horse. Never ride a horse name Zippy...unless, you are ready...jet engine.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Other then when I lived on the ranch, I've never lived where running home was an option. Like here, if you ride out, you ride a long a very busy road. I have used your method before in an arena for a horse that didn't want to slow their canter down, so we cantered (galloped) until they thought they might want to slow down, and then did a lot of walk-canter departs until they were nice and easy.

When I was talking about using the Figure 8, I was talking about a different context, and I'll give an example. When I had Dichosa here for retraining, she gets extremely buddy sour. I took her and Rosie to Judi's for my Dressage lesson. The lesson on Rosie went fine, then I went to work Dichosa in another arena. Dichosa has an established pattern of stopping, balking, power backing, crow-hopping, bucking, rearing and spinning to go back to her buddy!

Of course, I wasn't told about this when I accepted taking her for a "spring tune-up" and it was all a **Surprise** at Judi's.

What I did was set jump standards near the gate and did Figure 8's around them. She was used to the pattern from home, so did it almost willingly. Gradually I moved the standards farther from the gate and made her Figure 8's bigger and bigger until - 3 hours later - we could ride the entire arena without a temper fit.

Jack

Patterns are a great tool for unwilling horses and their riders. I use a number of patterns that I consider my "safe spots" for both myself and the horse. When either of us feel stressed we are able to return to a pattern and rediscover our "safe spot". A simple pattern I use is 'backing up'. I do a lot of backing up with my horses but especially the young or inexperienced (unbroke) ones., A wise horseman taught me to always do some backing up on the trail away from the barn in preparation for doing it much more on the way back home. With a green horse I really emphasize it.

It always amazes me how horses know when they have made that change "away from, to back towards" the stable. You can ride for miles but as soon as you make the turn back home their energy increases immediatly. I love the increase in energy and often find it the best time to accomplish many patterns and maneuvers with the horse. Barn sour horses can be scary but once I learned to control the energy and direct it I've found the ride back to be very enjoyable and fun.

Backing up is just one good pattern for the rider of a barn sour horse. I "back em up" a lot.

Jack

PasoBaby_CarolU

Funny Jack, I've wondered the same thing. On the ranch there was a 5-mile block in front of our place. We lived on one corner. I rode around it both directions, many times. You'd think the horses would decide they were on the way home half way through. But no, they always decided when we turned the final corner and it was a straight shot home. I've noticed the same thing on loop trail rides, they know they're headed back to the trailer when it is a pretty direct shot back.

On this note, carrying the GPS, we've noticed horses leave the trailer at 3.5 mph. They return at 4.5 mph. Obviously the gravitational pull of the shoes to the trailer.

jackspark

Funny that even the longest trail rides, when you and horse are tired, they still seem to have the "stretch run" in em!