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HopeMissouri

Bleach in water trough ... will my horses drink more?

Reading with interest about Kelsey adding bleach to the horses' water trough to encourage them to drink.

I'm reluctant to experiment with my horses only source of water in this heat.  So I'm asking for clarification:

    Does brand of bleach make a difference?
    How much bleach per gallon of water?  
    We are on city chlorinated water...would that make a difference as to how much bleach we would add, or should we add bleach at all?  
    Would apple cider vinegar be another option to encourage my horses to drink?


Thank you for your suggestions!

Hope
gideon

This sounds potentially dangerous - why are your horses not drinking enough? How do you know?
Disinfection of water can be done by adding 2 drops of bleach per gallon. But bleach is toxic. I am reasonably sure there are better ways to encourage drinking, but be sure you need to do it first!
bit

WE DIDN'T DO IT SO THEY WILL DRINK MORE WATER.  We did it to control algae.  Water is clear, and the biproduct is the horses seem to be drinking more water.  Not huge amounts, just a bit more.  We don't put in a lot, just a little in a 50 gal tank.  
Lol, we were at Walmart debating the name brand over the Walmart brand.  Nothing too good for our horses!  They got Clorox.  Now kids, no one is telling you to go out and do what we do.  K?  Some folks use fish to control algae, some a tiny bit of bleach, some don't use anything.  Zup to you!
We are using well water, although I don't know about city water.  
I googled it, and this came up for PEOPLE.  

When boiling is not practical, certain chemicals will kill most harmful or disease-causing organisms.
For chemical disinfection to be effective, the water must be filtered and settled first.Chlorine and iodine are the two chemicals commonly used to treat water. They are somewhat effective in protecting against exposure toGiardia, but may not be effective in controlling more resistant organisms like Cryptosporidium. Chlorine is generally more effective than iodine in controlling Giardia, and both disinfectants work much better in warm water.

You can use a non-scented, household chlorine bleach that contains a chlorine compound to disinfect water.
Do not use non-chlorine bleach to disinfect water. Typically, household chlorine bleaches will be 5.25% available chlorine. Follow the procedure written on the label. When the necessary procedure is not given, find the percentage of available chlorine on the label and use the information in the following table as a guide. (Remember, 1/8 teaspoon and 8 drops are about the same quantity.)

Available Chlorine Drops per Quart/Gallon of Clear Water Drops per Liter of Clear Water  
1% 10 per Quart - 40 per Gallon 10 per Liter
4-6% 2 per Quart - 8 per Gallon (1/8 teaspoon) 2 per Liter
7-10% 1 per Quart - 4 per Gallon 1 per Liter

So you see, bleach is not "dangerous", unless you are doing shots.  K?  We have to watch Bit, she REALLY wants the straight stuff.  I'm going to find her behind the barn, bleach in a paper bag, jobless, no friends...she'll need a 12 step program, but I don't think she's ready.  She isn't admitting she has a problem.  Eclipse is talking to her, but you know addicts.  Really sad.  We are going to have to do an intervention, I just know it.  
edited to add:  I'll ask Kelsey to add her infinite wisdom when she gets on the computer later.
4theloveofjake

We scrub ours out once a week with Dawn dish soap.........but would be nice not to have to. Bit, do you know how little she puts in ? I have a 40 gallon container.
CoolsLadyInRed

Like Gideon said.If you were disinfecting water( for people to drink) add 2 drops per gallon. I used less than a tablespoon for a 70 gal. tank and have no algae. Tried the goldfish and algae eaters in the past.  I think ya must need a whole tank of fish to keep our algae low...it is there even in the winter when we run the tank heater. But we do have well water. Maybe that makes a difference? But not having to scrub that monster all the time is great! Thanks Kelsey!!!!!!!!
Gismo

If we feel like they need more water (winter time) add a bottle of Gateraid.
We have well water and clean out the troughs every week or so as needed
Note:   Red loves to chew the algae off the top edge of the trough.
Peeperpuppy

We're on a well & we don't use any bleach.  We can have a lot of algae in our tanks so we do use the pressure washer once a month, squirt it out with the water hose in between.

I don't like adding things like bleach - which is why I turned down 'city water' & drilled my own well.  Horses drink from rivers, creeks, & ponds.  I didn't have any luck with fish in the tanks.  I had a horse that kept taking them out.  Then there was the whole feel-bad-festival for the poor dead algae eater who wasn't fast enough to escape a mare named Molly  

I have a gallon of DynaSpark (from the Dynamite company).  I've got a mare that's really touchy about anything added to water so I drizzle it over her feed.  Very small amount.  We have no water consumption issues so long as we don't get a drowned squirrel in the water trough.  We put a pan out for the wildlife to keep 'em out of the trough but there's a nutball in the group every time who just has to try it!
PasoBaby_CarolU

Bleach is used all the time for human drinking water.  I am not sure what the concentration is, but Deb's number sounds right.  Bleach is sodium hypochlorite and is toxic, BUT it all depends on the concentration!  A little is toxic to microbes (why it issued to purify water), a lot more can be toxic to other life forms.   Almost anyone on a public culinary system has bleach added to the water.  

Now, I'm not so sure cleaning a trough of algea gets the horses to drink more.  I'll clean one and refill it, and the horses go drink out the disgusting one in the next coral.    
alexwein

I scrub off the algae with a wire brush and paint scraper.  I don't like to use cleaning agents or bleach, but I'm chemically sensitive  and my horse is proving to be sensitive too.  To get them to drink more water I'd consider Gismo's suggestion of Gatorade!  Never heard of that one before. Or a little molasses works well (though I don't like to give my horses molasses most of the time).
jackspark

http://extension.missouri.edu/webster/webster/agric/algae-control.html
gideon

I don't question the use of bleach for disinfecting, I question its use for encouraging drinking more. Knowing the human propensity to not read directions, and to think "Hey, if a little is good, more is better!", best to look at something non-toxic to bring 'em to the trough.
bit

WE DO NOT PUT BLEACH IN THE WATER SO THE HORSES WILL DRINK MORE.  wE PUT BLEACH IN THE WATER TO KEEP OUT THE ALGAE.  
Jeeze guys, read the whole post.  This is just about algae control, nothin' else.  

best to look at something non-toxic to bring 'em to the trough.

We do not use bleach to bring horses to the trough, we do use a lead rope on occasion.  This is just about algea, not water consumtion.  
Kelsey did use a really cool product that is used by the us olympic team to encourage horses to hydrate.  I think a lot of endurance riders use it.  I'll have her stop by and post about it.  The only time I have ever seen Gunner kick some serious butt was to protect his bucket of the stuff.  He LOVES it.
HopeMissouri

Hey!  Thanks for all of the responses!  

The bleach in the water captured my curiosity as I have a 29yo horse that never drinks as much as I'd like to see him drink.  He has his own water bucket, that the others cannot reach, near where he likes to stand during the day in the barn.  He does drink it dry during the day.  He still has two other water sources that are not as easy for me to monitor his intake.

I have two 150 gal troughs that I keep 5" to 6" of water in the bottom to freshen everyday.  One inside the run-in and one outside that seems to turn green overnight.  I've found that dumping then pulling the algaed trough out into the sunshine, then putting water and dosing with a generous amount of vinegar for the day usually cleans it without scrubbing.  

All four of mellow fellows seem to be doing fine.  They're spending the heat of the day in the run-in to the dry lot in front of their fans.  At night they're given access to the grass pasture.  I rotate them between two grass pastures of probably 5-6 acres each.  The remaining acres is growing grass for them to graze upon this winter.

gideon

BIT ! Read the first post! "Reading with interest about Kelsey adding bleach to the horses' water trough to encourage them to drink. " That's what I read, see? I get it that you don't do it for that reason! Is this some hangover off another thread I didn't read? I dunno. I'm going to bed now, talk amongst yourselves, keep it down.
HopeMissouri

Bit!  Thank you for clarifying that the bleach was intended for clearing the algae.  That your horses liked it was an unexpected benefit.  

Nancy...thank you for the University of Missouri Extension link!

Hope
PasoBaby_CarolU

Kind of interesting, we have a cat that loves bleach.  She goes crazy like other cats do with catnip.  

I also use bleach to kill algea, although I clean and scrub the tank with it and then fill it.  But, my horses seem to prefer really disgusting tanks.
Blue Flame

For algae I would tend to use sodium bicarbonate. This has added benefits for horses with ulcers and/or windsucking and cribbing habits.

If I wanted to disinfect, I'd likely look into colloidal silver - powerful anti-microbial - which I am able to make myself at home. Haven't need to so don't know the concentrations required.

All of our troughs are on town water supply (which we pay commercial rates for) so maintenance usually consists of nothing more than dumping out stagnant water from an unused trough before moving them into that paddock - just to freshen it up and restore the levels of anti-microbials in the water.
learningthedance

If I could afford it, my horses would be drinking bottled water.  LOL

I used to (YEARS ago) sell home water filtration systems. The classes we attended and what we learned about Chlorine in our drinking water was actually pretty scary. It's not so much about the "small amount" that's added, as it is about drinking that "small amount" over an extended period of time.

I drink bottled water, and even then, you have to do your homework on that. They are not all created equal.

Just do a couple searches about Chlorine in our drinking water. Pretty nasty stuff.

PS. Just a side note. I have tropical fish and 2 Fire Belly toads. If I need to add water or do a water change and use tap water (Chlorinated and safe for human consumption  ) it will kill my fish. You have to either leave it stand for more then 24 hours or add a Chlorine blocker to it so it won't kill your fish.  

There was also a study done that shows (or therorizes) that animals are more suseptable to the negative effects of Chlorine and it's by-products then humans. Although, I am sure they wouldn't want us to know the complete truth anyways. The carcinegen effects are well documented.

Here is just one (of MANY) of those studies showing the charts and the findings if you scroll down a bit or are interested in seeing the cancers produced.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cdic-mcc/19-3/b_e.html

Public Health Agency of Canada
"Health Risks of Drinking Water Chlorination By-products: Report of an Expert Working Group"

And the final consensus of the group after their research...

"Consensus of the Expert Working Group

After hearing the presentations of the evidence, the Expert Working Group deliberated the two questions below and arrived at the following consensual opinions.

1. Given currently available evidence, how likely is it that chlorination by-products cause cancer/reproductive effects in humans? If likely (possible or probable), how important a public health problem is it?

Cancer

The Working Group noted that the evidence for this must be reviewed on a site-specific basis. Participants concluded that it was possible (60% of the group) to probable (40%) that chlorination by-products pose a significant risk to the development of cancer, particularly bladder cancer.

"The risk of bladder cancer, and possibly other cancers, poses a risk to public health; this is a moderately important public health problem."

"Moderately important"??

And yet, they keep adding it, and we keep drinking it.



Sorry, got a little carried away here.hahaha

Chlorine is not something I (personally), would be playing around with. Not even a few drops a day. I empty and fill fresh every other day if they need it or not. If you are killing off algae, then your creating more by-products for them to consume each and every day. Just something to think about of course, and no offense meant.
Peeperpuppy

learningthedance,

Yeah, I was pretty young when our kennel's water supply was checked & turned out to be the reason for infertility issues, kidney/bladder issues & a whole hosts of other bug-a-boos.  I am the world's pickiest water drinker, I was a long time before I was old enough to know about any of this stuff.  My Grandpas & even my dad would occassionally catch me drinking from the stream but not the water from the house!  I went off my water & just couldn't make myself drink it.  That's when dad when hunting someone to test our water (they had no monitary gain as they weren't selling anything at the Ag extension office).  Sure enough there was enough junk in our water to be causing several problems.

My mother has an old picture of me as a kid looking at a pool of water in the yard... me, 8 beagle pups, 2 dobermanns, 2 poodles, & 2 mini schnauzers... our expressions said what we thought of the water.     My husband had the camera & snapped a similar picture in my 20's where myself, a dobermann, a german shep, a shih tzu & 2 mares are doing the same at a water trough.... apparently somethings never change!!!

I wish I could tell you what it is (a smell or taste) but I can take a sip of water & not be able to make myself drink more.  And don't even get me started about floaties in water.  Yuck!!  Yes, I know there are floaties in streams but I'll take my chances with natural ones over stuff that's coming out of faucets where they've treated the water.  Treated scares me  

Yes, I know... Peeper is very weird.
Blue Flame

I bought a benchtop distiller and we drink and cook with that rather than tap water. My concerns were more to do with the water being flouridated rather than chlorinated.

If I had my own place for horses I'd be storing rainwater for them to drink if at all possible.
creekwood

Blue Flame wrote:


If I had my own place for horses I'd be storing rainwater for them to drink if at all possible.


I know a horse that died from rainwater- it was contaminated with bird poop, I believe. I can't remember what the horse actually had..?

If you want your horse to drink more (clinics, trail rides, etc.) I use horse quencher (http://www.horsequencher.com/). It's nice to have on hand. I used it for Ziya's first endurance ride, when she wouldn't drink strange water. Now shes fine with drinking from the 'community' buckets.

As for the bleach, if it bothers you, you probably shouldn't do it. In 11 years of doing it, I haven't had a problem.
PasoBaby_CarolU

I agree Kelsey, and I've done it for 45 years.   I don't add it to the water, but I do clean with it.

I have a few issues with filtered water.   We have a reverse osmosis filtration system here on one line (use the water for the carnivorous plants) and our ice cubes.  I won't drink the water though.

You've heard the saying, "Mexico is a great place to visit, but don't drink the water."   They say the same thing there about the U.S.  LOL  The truth is that water everywhere has NECESSARY minerals in it and microbes that you need in small doses to develop resistance to.   Anyone going somewhere and drinking the water will probably get mild diarrhea from it, until your system adjusts.  But you go drinking bottled water (and I do in Mexico...LOL) but they still wash the vegetables and dishes in tap water, so you are still exposed.  

Science has shown that by over-cleaning our homes and food, we have made our population less healthy and more susceptible to disease.   A huge increase in both allergies and asthma is being attributed to being TOO clean and not letting children develop immunity.

I think people concerned about their water supply should get it sampled, and if you are on a community source, it probably already is.  You can call your Health Department and get a copy of the analysis.  In fact, if you are drinking bottled water, you might ask for the same thing.
Blue Flame

creekwood wrote:
Blue Flame wrote:


If I had my own place for horses I'd be storing rainwater for them to drink if at all possible.


I know a horse that died from rainwater- it was contaminated with bird poop, I believe. I can't remember what the horse actually had..?
Giardia?
PasoBaby_CarolU

EPM would be my first guess, but there are several diseases horses can get from birds, and many more (like West Nile Virus and all other encephalitis viruses) that go from bird to vector to horse.   There are also reports of Avian Flu in horses.
Clarissa

PasoBaby_CarolU wrote:
Science has shown that by over-cleaning our homes and food, we have made our population less healthy and more susceptible to disease.   A huge increase in both allergies and asthma is being attributed to being TOO clean and not letting children develop immunity.
.


HERE, HERE!!  



I am also concerned with the addition of fluride since it is just as poisonous as chlorine.

There are times when my horses prefer the dam water & other times when they prefer the rain water. Sonny prefers rainwater, but I make sure he gets at least 1 drink of dam water a day also because it contains many minerals.



As far as controlling algae in troughs & dams, here is a trick I learned many years ago. It works for all contained water including fish ponds.

[b] BARLEY STRAW![/b]


For a dam you would need a 10kg mesh onion bag stuffed full of barley straw with a couple rocks in the bottom to make the bag sink.

For troughs you would just need a 2kg mesh onion bag done the same. Down size for smaller ponds etc.

The enzymes in the rotting barley straw eat the algae. 1 bag will last several weeks. There is a propietry product for sale which is actually ground up pelletized barley straw. It was 'officially' discovered by scientists in DPI Queensland about 22 yrs ago, although farmers & alternative growers have been using it for generations.


jackspark

Yes on the Barley Straw it is on the list given to me by the U of MO Extension office here in town.  As to where to get it, dunno.
Pyrgirl

Just thought I'd add my water experienes to the mix here.

I would never add bleach to water for a human or animal unless it was a life/death situation.  Many people are even painfully allergic to bleach as a cleaning agent in the home.  It may not be considered "toxic" at low levels, but I'm not convinced that something that is toxic at a high level is necessarily perfectly healthy at a low level.  Just my own thinking and opinion and I know others disagree.

I clean my water trough out using baking soda.  It rinses cleaner than soaps.  It stays clean for a fair amount of time this way.

And yes, my horses do drink more when the water is clean and fresh.  They drink considerably less if I let it get green and yucky.  They do know the difference.
jackspark

For Sale Cheap!  Organic Tank Cleaner

BRING DIP NET or you may rent one here for your convenience!  Let us end the Bleach or no Bleach discussion.  

4theloveofjake

Now that is some nasty lookin' water there, YUCK !!! I think of it like this, I wouldn't allow my animals to drink out of any water I myself would not drink......except for after they slobber in it....another YUCK !!!  
Jack

Our farm has many springs including the one that feeds our 3 acre pond. This spring is developed and our horse auto waterers are all connected to it. I suspect that my herd would find chlorinated water distasteful.

Here's a pic that you might enjoy. It shows natural horsemanship in action, lol.





Jack
jackspark

Beautiful pic Jack!  My horses also turn their noses up at water that is too clean.  In fact when I had to stall my old gelding last winter I had a hard time understanding why he wouldn't drink the water from the nice clean bucket I started filling it from the stock tank and he was once again a "heavy drinker"
Pyrgirl

Jack wrote:
Our farm has many springs including the one that feeds our 3 acre pond. This spring is developed and our horse auto waterers are all connected to it. I suspect that my herd would find chlorinated water distasteful.

Here's a pic that you might enjoy. It shows natural horsemanship in action, lol.





Jack


Beautiful picture!
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