| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| Katharine |
Can you help me assess this horse? Long back/loose couplingThis horse has been offered to me and I could use your help in determining if I would be foolish to accept him. He is not my horse, so please PM so no feelings are hurt.He is an 8-yo Morgan/Halfinger gelding. He is very green and has not been under saddle very long. You can see a video of him here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jn2bzc5pzQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd72lovbWJ0&feature=related The person riding the horse is not the owner. The owner has cautioned me that the horse is long backed and has loose coupling. Judging from how the horse moves in this video, do you think he will have long term problems with cantering and eventually with his back? I want to do low level dressage, obstacle trail, and regular trail riding with this guy. What do you think? |
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| Copious_Amour |
Just want to say, what a cutie! | ||
| Mandy'sMarty |
Katharine, this guy reminds me a bit of my Mandy. She's a foundation Morgan, about 14.3 with a long back. I'm no expert but I don't see the loose coupling in your prospect. I do see the Morgan and the Haflinger.
I'll find a side view photo of Mandy and show it tomorrow. It was taken in June after an endurance ride. We're doing 25 mile limited distance rides now. When I get in better condition and can find hoof boot protection that will stay on her feet at a canter, we will be doing 50 mile races. Eventually I intend to enter 75 mile races. She just turned 17. I'm 61. Her competition weight is about 960 lbs. Me and my tack weigh about 200 lbs. We are just getting warmed up. I'm not very concerned about Mandy's long back. I am diligent about keeping her body balanced and catching imbalances early. I suspect that her long back may become a liability if we were doing 100 mile races, but I'm not interested in going there. I didn't see anything...or sense anything...in the first video to concern me. |
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| misstux |
Just watched the videos. My Morgan Dusty, who I lost 2 years ago the beginning of March, had a long back. We were schooling second level dressage when he had 2 accidents with fences back to back that he never recovered from. Although he couldn't do dressage any more I continued to ride him for the next 8 years, pleasure trail, trail trials, we found Parelli and also did some play days. So, no, I don't think you will have any problems. If he's the right one, go for it. | ||
| karmikacres |
He's not awful, but I would be concerned about the long term cost of treats... | ||
| Katharine |
Yes, I wonder what kind of revolution he will start when I alter the clicker vending machine | ||
| Mandy'sMarty |
Here's the photo of Mandy I mentioned earlier. It was taken immediately after we completed an LD endurance ride in June. Note the long back.
I happened to find one definition of 'loose coupling' as the distance between the last rib and the point of the hip being wider than the width of a hand (not sure if that means 4 inches, and if not, whose hand?). Using that definition, I would say Mandy demonstrates 'loose coupling', looking at this photo. I would also add that she is extremely athletic, quick and fast, as well as being durable enough to work long days. Perhaps someone else can better explain 'loose coupling' and its implications. 
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| Katharine |
She's a cutie.
Cherry Hill says: "The loin is located along the lumbar vertebrae from the last rib-bearing (dorsal) vertebrae to the lumbosacral joint. The loin should be well muscled and relatively short. Horses termed "long-backed" often have an acceptable back length but a long, weak loin. A horse with a weak and/or long loin and loose coupling tends to have a hollow back. (The coupling is the area behind the last rib and in front of a vertical line dropped from the point of hip.) A horse that chronically hollows its back may be predisposed to back problems. The loin and the coupling are what transfer the motion of the hindquarters up through the back and forward to the forehand, so they must be strong and well connected. A short, heavily muscled loin has great potential strength, power, and durability yet could lack the flexibility that a more moderately muscled loin may have. Loin muscling (best viewed from the top) should appear springy and resilient not stiff and cramped or weak and saggy. A lumpy appearance in the loin area may indicate partial dislocations of the vertebrae." Somewhere else I read that loose coupling makes it very difficult for the horse to engage the hindquarters which results in more weight/stress on the forehand. That's why I was wondering if the canter depart problem was related to his structure. |
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| karmikacres |
Well, if you don't want a problem horse, don't buy one.
I know that may be harsh, and the horse may have no long term issues, but... And yes, they are all cute. And yes, they are making new ones every day. |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
Anyone posting anything negative about this horse, please do so in PM. We have a rule about criticizing horses that aren't our own, and it's a rule for a reason.
So please, PM your comments to Katharine. |
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| karmikacres |
Edited...
Nothing here to see. Move along.... |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
Oh Mike...I wasn't talking about you...so sorry. I was talking about the whole thread. I just saw it. I've been at the vet/chiro all day and just saw this. I wanted to stop it before it hurt anyone's feelings.
Again, nothing about what you wrote. |
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| karmikacres |
OK, just had me worried for a second.
Thanks Mike |
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| Julie |
Nice horse, the frward placement of the saddle actully makes the horse look longer backed than it is, the saddle is also higher in front and rather narrow, as well as not being supported properly at the back when moving. resolve these and quite a nice horse if a little green and unbalanced | ||
| Katharine |
Thanks for all the input. | ||
| cheerios |
I cannot comment specifically about this horse, as I have no idea about his personality and training history. However... I train all of our horses at the rescue with clicker training. This includes ground work, under saddle work, prep for vet care, etc. We had about two dozen adoptions last year. Out of those, I know of maybe one or two owners who has continued with the clicker training. The rest have continued with whatever training methods they were using before. The horses have a good solid foundation, are friendly and eager to please people, have learned how to adapt to new situations and do fine adjusting to different training practices. We keep up with our adopted horses and have heard great things about how our horses are doing now, even though the owners aren't doing any clicker training. Besides, the clicker is a training tool. Once the horse knows the skill, the clicker (and treats) should be faded out. |
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| AlythLong |
No horse is perfect and there are a lot worse faults than a long back and coupling. Incidentally, the 4' rule. Is that the same for a minature and a Clydesdale? Shouldn't the various measurements be in proportion to the height of the horse? You did say you are only aiming at low level competition at this point so I wouldn't be overly concerned. Of more importance is disposition and the way the pair of you interact with each other. |