| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| ElaineW |
Changing eyes,,,I have been reading about Changing Eye's,, And Backing in a circle..I reviewed ElaineC's post about how it can change a horses mind.. Levi and I have been working with this in little bits.. But this evening, something changed.. Before today I was using my 12 ft rope, I will put the rope over the other side and just back up,, Levi will turn right around.. He was doing this softly. This evening I wanted to use the longer rope and get some forward motion, Like in ElaineC's post.. Something interesting happened.. He just did it! it was almost like at liberty! He did it sooooo smooth and gently too,, After 2 trips in both direction he was yawning, licking, chewing.. blinking big time.. I just stood there and watched him! Backing in a circle is really good on one side. the other side we are working on.. Why are these exercises so powerful? Everything I asked Levi to do after these was wonderful! The look on his face was so soft.. we also did some dragging,, the cone was what we used tonight.. we moved up from the small sack. Where do you progress from here? I guess doing it at liberty? I am REALLY excited! |
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| Blue Flame |
Re: Changing eyes,,,
Changing eyes involves both hemispheres of a horse's brain. The following I learned from Paul McGreevy and Mark Rashid. Horse's are very lateral compared to us. By that, it is meant that for a horse, left and right have far more significance. It goes back to how their brains and eyesight are arranged. Having eyes on the sides of their heads which, as a prey animal, enables them to have better peripheral vision necessitates that they be able comprehend a much wider visual field than us. In order to be able to comprehend this huge visual field, seeing different things out of each eye, their brains are arranged differently to ours. The corpus collosum is a bridge between the left and right hemispheres of the brain. In humans and probably other animals with eyes on the front of their heads, this bridge is a very strong link such that what is comprehended by one side of the brain is largely comprehended by the other side of the brain also. In horses, this bridge between the hemispheres of the brain is much weaker. While it allows for independent movement, perception and comprehension of the information coming from each eye individually, that comprehension or understanding does not transfer from one side to the other as readily as it does for us. If you think about this, you'll probably remember some instances where this played out i.e. why some horses who have never been taught to just cannot handle the human on the "other" side and seem to forget everything they know when something is tried on the other side. When changing eyes with a horse, you are in effect causing it to percieve you and what you are doing using both sides of his brain. I suspect that the act of changing eyes causes new neural links to be formed between the two hemispheres of the horse's brain. You might wonder why the horse might've been inflicted with such a disadvantage as a weak corpus collosum but here's a little tidbit that will help explain the advantages (was told to me by Mark Rashid). . . . there was a man who had a brain disease which resulted in degeneration of the corpus collosum. This degeneration had the effect that as it progressed, the man found that he was able to read an open book in front of him by reading the left page with the left eye and the right page with the right eye - simultaneously - and be able to comprehend both pages. Paul McGreevy actually took all this a step further and conducted a huge study of laterality in horses as well as studies in equine eyesight. The implications of this work mean that it is possible that one might predict the dominant hemisphere of a horse's brain and, to some extent, it's innate characteristics by observing such things as left or right handedness or which nostril it uses to sniff poo. Changing eyes goes deep with horses and there is some good science behind why that is. |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
That was very good Blue.
I also think that horses have a dominant side, which you could look at as a Confident side and a less-confident side. By changing eyes, we can take the same learning frame and comfort zone the horse is in on the Confident side, and have carry over when we switch to the less confident side. I have some horses here that either are, or go RB easily. It's much easier to maintain the learning circle changing eyes this way. I have also found Falling Leaf to be a similar exercise, since you work both sides of the brain. |
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| Blue Flame |
Here's a link to Paul McGreevy's work:
A HORSE IS A HORSE IS A HORSE OF COURSE - Within breeds: Differences in vision and laterality (left and right hoofedness) - Paul McGreevy I don't know if the link will work for you or how long it will continue working as it seems to be a backdoor way into the NZERF website. |
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| ElaineW |
Blue Flame!
Thank you so much for your reply! I really enjoyed reading it.. Learned alot too! Carol.. I also do some falling leaf with Levi,, at first he was pulling some pretty ugly faces! Ears all laid back etc.. But he's not doing that anymore,,, Thank you both! I LOVE this forum! |
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| Blue Flame |
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| ElaineW |
Very interesting!!
The link worked for me and will finish reading it later.. Thanks again! 
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| jackspark |
Very interesting indeed! Do any of you know anything about sensitivity in blue eyed horses? Would a horse show sensitivity, like a blue eyed human, to the sun or brightness? | ||||||
| alexwein |
Blue Flame, very nice explanation indeed! You are very fortunate to have gotten this directly from the likes of Mark Rashid! I hope to get to work with him someday. Off to check out the link you provided! | ||||||
| cokey |
My Instructor says that horses have a wild eye and a tame eye. Pretty much all of the horses that I've looked at really do.. |
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| Blue Flame |
I met one the other day. A black horse with white markings and two blue eyes - he was absolutely stunning. He is what we call in NZ a Gisborne bred or Station bred horse meaning that he comes from a certain part of the country where feral horses roam - they are quite sought after and command premium prices. I couldn't spend any time with him as I had my hands full with our 2 1yo labradors which he had come out of his paddock to meet. Not knowing the horse and also since our labs aren't particularly horse smart, I kept a distance between them. Whether his calm, confident and curious demeanour was because of his breeding, handling or blue eyes I cannot say. |
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| alexwein |
I always call it a Sticky side and an Open side, but all of these descriptive names fit! So changing eye exercises help to balance this out! That is cool. I've always thought of it as having to work the sticky side more to balance it out and get both sides to be more open. Of course that is still necessary, I think. But to work on a neurological level, to work directly with the mind of the horse. Makes sense! |
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| Blue Flame |
Here's something I found using a quick google. It is basically saying that learning in horses done with one eye can be transferred effectively to the other side via the corpus callosum. I disagree with the tone of the last sentence however that suggests that it is an easy thing for a horse.
You will note that in the methodology the horse was taught something with one eye until it achieved a correct response of greater than or equal to 18 out of 20 attempts, twice in a row. IOW, the horse learned the correct response really well before being tested on the other eye. I don't know about you, but 18/20 twice in a row in my book goes beyond learning and into drilling. This also fits in with what Mark Rashid told us about teaching a horse really well on one side before trying to teach it on the other side.
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
It is sort of interesting. Buddy, who is my forever rescue horse was left sided UNTIL he injured his left side. Now he's less fearful on his right side, except at distances, then he's left-sided again.
I also have noticed that Zar prefers clockwise when you are on the ground and counterclockwise when you are riding. A very stark example of a confident and an unconfident eye. |
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| Blue Flame |
. . . and another from google . . . How Horses Sleep
It suggests that horses may be able to sleep one side of the brain at a time similar to dolphins. Personally, I suspect that by changing eyes we are simultaneously waking up both sides of the horse's brain and exercising the corpus callosum. I further suspect that the exercise of the corpus callosum makes it stronger so that the horse's ability to transfer learning and information between the two sides increases. |
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| ElaineW |
Now I understand why his responce has been so huge!
Last night his Licking/Chewing/yawning was very expressive.. and LONG.. He was a completely different animal afterwards.. now with all this said.. How often would you do this exercise? Meaning would you do it every day a cuople of times? or progress with it until you can do it at liberty? Is this a exercise you can do if he's a bit troubled? It reminds me of resetting the gps thingy in my mom's car. She has to go in circles to reset her N/S/E/W dilly on her rearview mirror. is there any other ways to do it that would make it less of a 'task'. see what I am trying to do is avoid over doing if you know what I mean.. I can't thank you all enough for your help today! |
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| alexwein |
Well, this would give a physiological explanation for why changing eyes changes the horse, and why it is so important! Very interesting stuff. Brent Graef made the comment that he didn't really believe horses had two totally separate sides to the brain. I told him I agreed, just based on my own experience. Nice to see this validation! |
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| ElaineC |
I have no real idea on why this exercise has such a profound affect on some horses, most of them really, but it does. What my trainer/barn owner says is that horses have one eye that is better at seeing close up, and one eye thats better at seeing distances. There's so many different ideas about it, but I think they all agree that there's a significant difference between one side of a horse, and the other, and that it goes beyond simple training.
I did have an interesting experience tonight though, that I think is relevant. As most of you know, Ben has only one eye - his right eye. For him, this would be his wild eye / seeing distance eye or however you want to view it. We went for a ride tonight (!!! this is a big deal!!! ) and on the way back, ran into the farm owners headed out back with their Gator - quad type thing. They backed up the trail, even though he'd have been fine for them to go by, to an open spot. I stopped to say hi, and Ben is more than fine with this type of vehicle and more. Sure enough, he steps out of the brush, couldn't care less that a noisy running thing is there on his blind side. When I went to face them, in that brief moment when the quad went from his blind side to his sighted side, he had a heck of a spook! He saw it coming, he saw it back up, he knows what it is, he KNEW it was there... but in the shift from one side to the other, he had an "OMG OMG OMG" moment. His head shifted back and forth, and back and forth really fast, then he just said "OH, well now I feel silly", and went back to relaxing after he had a good look at it on his sighted side, and a good listen to it on his blind side. The fact that he had almost the exact same reaction that Zoom did when first trying out the changing eyes excercise I found really, really interesting. I did have a chance to try this out with Ben before he lost his vision on one side, but I honestly don't recall what reaction he had. It for sure wasn't the same kind of reaction as the disappearing / reappearing leg when mounting issues we went through for a while, or a scarey out of nowhere reaction. Off topic, but we had a great ride, first time out of the arena at the new place and he was SUCH a good boy! |
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| Blue Flame |
Oh no, they aren't totally seperate at all - just more seperate than other animals. Just another point I'll highlight is that forming new neural connections in the brain can use 5-6 times more energy than the brain would normally use. This means that when teaching and/or exercising the corpus callosum, dwell time is really important - so give them time to lick, chew, assimilate and recharge the neurons. I guess that might constitute an answer to ElainW about overdoing it. You can't repeat it too much but you can do too much of it at once especially if teaching something new. Each neuron has an energy charge and once fired it goes dormant for a short period of time while it recharges. If the horse has done the correct thing but isn't released to let that correct combination of neurons recharge, then other neurons will fire trying to find the solution - the result is confusion. However, if the desired response has not occurred, you may want other neurons firing to find the solution. The release allows the correct combination of neurons to recharge. Then, when you provide the same stimulus again, the brain tends to try to use previously existing neural pathways to find a solution. Firing the combination again strengthens the pathways between them. It does this to save energy as forming new pathways takes alot more energy as mentioned above. This is why timing the release, dwell time and being consistent with your communication is important - it causes physical changes in the way the neurons connect to eachother. |
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| Blue Flame |
There have been experiments with some animals testing the adaptability of the brain to changes in eyesight. Humans viewing the world upside down through mirror type equipment are able to adapt. Frogs, however were unable to adapt when their eyesight was turned upside down (you don't want to know how they did that). |
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| BuffaloBill |
This reminds me of a book I'm reading at the moment (an older book) of a German Horsetrainer calles Michael Geitner (don't believe he's known outside of the German-speaking World). Does anyone know his "Dual-Aktivierung" (Dual-activation)?
It's a method using poles (or, like he invented, soft tubes to minimize any injuries) of two different colors, blue and yellow (as horses are seeing these two colors best - in my opinion, you just need high contrast - black and white would do just as well). You put the poles to different patterns, "corridors", triangles, Figure 8s and S-patterns, and send the horse - either from the ground or ridden - through them. You change between straight lines through these corridors and bending in the turns. The two colors are supposed to help the horse connect his right and left brain sides via eyesight. He also uses a little flag you are supposed to move from the horses right to the horses left (walking backwards in front of the horse), to connect the two halves of the brain. On this page you can see a few pictures what it looks like (if you speak German, you can read through it). http://www.dualaktivierung.org/deutsch/home/index.html The method is supposed to help with almost any problem (crookedness, balance, more activity of the hindquarters, spooking), I have just read the book and not tried it. I'm not sure how much of it is just marketing (of course he sells those blue-and-yellow tubes, and cones, and the flag, and even a blue-and-yellow halter for high prices. - imho you can take any poles or cones or flags) |
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| Clarissa |
Change eyes certainly is a powerfull exercise. I use a similar exercise in my 7games. I start them doing a turn towards me but fast which is still a change eyes & I have them come along with me still connected to prove both sides are working equally.
When the horse is sufficiently educated I start teaching 360 turns away which I also use with both Jude & Sonny again to prove their brains are keyed in. Sonny had a lot of trouble learning to trust his brain & eyes but once he allowed that trust he matured somewhat also. The way I do it is actually a complex set of exercises which goes like a falling leaf pattern as follows:- Horse moves freely energized with me, then it's:- direct rein across infront of me, indirect rein to begin HQ yield & to keep out of my way, HQ yield, draw front end through for change eyes to keep up with me & to stay with me again or to do next direct rein to go the other way to repeat exercise. Both these videos show me rutinely using the exercise at liberty http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF6EYVpTr-Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUAejViBwCs When I am having connection issues with Sonny I will encourage him to do 360 turns away from me to help his mind focus on me better. Also he actually likes doing them so if I reward him even for a poor effort he will perk up & give me a better effort next ask. 
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| ElaineW |
Clarissa,,
Thank you so much for your videos! I reallllly enjoyed them and will watch your others.. What Inspiration! I never did Changing eyes with my first horse Chance.. I think if I had understood the importance of this exercise things might have been different for us. But you can't go backwards. You always move foward! With that said.. Today was veryyyyy good.. Thanks to you ALL for your replies.. I know my newbie questions might get redundant, but thank you all for helping me! Since this forum was started I have jetted forward in my learning! Hugs and well wishes to you all!
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
I like to change eyes both behind (like follow a feel) and in front (falling leaf). I think horses feel a lot differently about you in Zone 1 or Zone 5, so both are important.
I have done some thinking about the separate hemispheres of the brain, and have to agree that there is obviously some cross hemisphere communication, a horse doesn't have to be chased by a lion on both the right and left side, to learn to run from a lion, regardless. BUT, there is definitely something to teaching both sides, since a lot of what you teach does not cross hemispheres. I also think that what we commonly think of as Left Brain and Right Brain behavior, has nothing to do with which hemisphere those reactions (fear, uncertainty, confidence, playfulness) reside in. An LBE horse is equally a pill on either side. I know of no studies where one eye was covered and a horse checked to see how they react differently. Kind of a shame that they were 'labeled' this way, since it does give that impression. When Alayna was here, we had a discussion about training horses in both LB and RB frames. Some horses seem to learn easily when LB and not learn anything when RB, or when RB, what they do know goes right out the barn door. |
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| Jack |
Dennis Reis' (RFD) show last week was an excellent presentation of this subject. He uses "changing eyes" often, with many examples, in his practice of horsemanship. This show was really good.
Jack |
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| Blue Flame |
I wish I could read German or there was an English version. It looks like some extremely thought provoking material. |