| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| ErinR76 |
Check out some of these case studies!http://www.farrierart.com/sole_pressure.htmlespecially the road founder one. And, the one called Sole Pressure. Very interesting!! |
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| RickB. |
IMNTBCHO, Caveat Emptor. | ||||||||||||
| appellativo |
does that mean "In my not to be called humble opinion?"
What are your specific thoughts on what you saw? Some I don't feel qualified to comment on but the road foundered one where it talked about the heel height and the subsequent damage, I thought looked pretty convincing. Also the thrush treatment of the appaloosa gelding looked like it got good results. |
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| whudson |
Yup I agree. I don't like people hiding in code.. it's a trust issue for me | ||||||||||||
| appellativo |
aw its ok wanda. we can love Rick too even if his style is guarded 
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| RickB. |
In My Never To Be Considered Humble Opinion 
. I am uncomfortable with several of his treatment protocols, recommendations and understanding of some of the pathologies. As an example, that which he refers to as Canker/hoof cancer, it not what I have found Canker to look like and I have never read or heard of it being referred to as a 'cancer'. Also, his treatment protocol for the pathology if it actually was canker, would have had little to no chance of being successful. That said, I have heard of/read about some people calling a keratoma, hoof cancer. I don't find that to be accurate either. And that is because though a keratoma is a slow growing tumor , it has not, to my knowledge, been shown to be a malignant growth. Another case study that I had a problem with was his example of sole pressure. While it does appear that there may have been sole pressure present,(without 'hoof in hand' it is difficult to know) the NB shoe is designed and fabricated with deep sole relief already built into the shoe so it seems inconsistent that its application would cause sole pressure. And I have some reservations about the 'new' trim he instituted. However, the sole does appear to have prolapsed and if that occurred after the shoe was applied, then indeed there probably is sole pressure present. I would note for the record that the application of a full pad under the shoe, will not, in and of itself, relieve the sole pressure. In fact, it can exacerbate it. The addition of supplemental mechanical support of the foot through the use of a frog support and polymer material to help support the bars, commissures, sole(in the back 1/3 +/- of the hoof probably did more to help the horse, than any other mechanical application did. There is more, but that should give you an idea of my concerns. But these are just my thoughts based on my experience, experiences, and knowledge base. Much of what he does, I wouldn't do but it seems to be working for him, so............. I'm quite sure that if I had a similar web page with case studies posted, there would be those who would offer the same insight as I did, eg.: Caveat Emptor. So in the end, Rick's First Rule of Hoof Care (It Depends) still reigns supreme.
While I have little issue with that case study, to me, that case and many others are/were the result of a weak knowledge base and experience level causing the problem in the first place(ineffective/bad/poor trimming/shoeing) and once that issue was properly addressed, the pieces fell into place.
Indeed! However, here again, it came down to recognizing the cause(s) (basically, the trim or lack thereof) and dealing with them. It is also relevant to note that the before photos were [mostly] of feet deep into a trim/shoeing cycle and unless we know what they looked like at the beginning of that cycle, it is difficult to compare them to a freshly trimmed foot photo of the same hoof(ves) as kpresented by Mr. Minick. Unfortunately/sadly, this is the same maneuver used by many in the barefoot only movement when they are attempting to show why a shod horse should be maintained barefoot. It is a subterfuge that seems to work quite well and anyone who lacks the knowledge to either recognize or understand the ploy. On another front, which screen name is going to be your nom de plume? I would hate to use the wrong one and be accused of political incorrectness or the like.
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| RickB. |
Hiding, me????? ROTFLMAO! Code? what code? "IMNTBCHO"? Saves a lot of typing and is in fairly general use on the internet. "Caveat Emptor"? No code there. Just a quick way of expressing my opinion and a succinct warning. As for whether you trust me or not, 'Que sera, sera' Since I regularly/routinely see in whom folks (mis)place their trust, whether you trust me or not, no me importa. I suggest you place me on your ignore list. Failing that, just don't read what I have to say. Simple, n'est-ce pas? |
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| sebocat |
I think it means: In my not to be challenged humble opinion I don't know too much about this yet, but some of those pics bug me Must mean I have much to learn.... |
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| gaitinalong |
I looked at those pictures and I can say I've never seen anything like that trim with a shoe nailed to it.
But I am no professional either. My only claim to fame is having my granddad give me trimming tools for my 12th Christmas, 52 years ago, and the lessons to go with them. I've been trimming my own horses, off and on, ever since. I really don't have anything to say about the article that would sound educated and/or intelligent. That means it's been dropped from my thought process and I will continue trimming my four as per usual. They're not sore and they all gait or trot out of the paddock into the pasture when I'm done ----- which is more than I can say for the last six months of work from the Trimmer I let go that had been trimming them for three years. His young self really should have learned to keep his personal problems out from underneath the rasp when it was attached to my horses' hooves and I would have found a way to keep him in my retirement budget----------------. I've been trimming longer than he is old and it's pretty hard to "b*llsh** the b*llsh****r. You can only screw up for so long before I get really tissed off and take action. That's OT and I apologize - I still don't know anything about that article and that's probably a good thing 
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| JackPNH |
What can you say, anybody that trims a hoof in the manner of the 1st serious of photographs is showing nothing more than total ignorance, but hey it goes on every day in countries all over the world by people who believe that they know it all. There are anatomical facts that should not be ignored, but there are some that choose to do so and are good enough con artists to make sure that some people will believe their BS.
In my minds these people should not pick up so much as a hoof pick, let alone farrier tools. Steve |
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| gaitinalong |
Thank you
All I knew was it "didn't make sense to a Jack***" to coin my Ex's favorite phrase, and wasn't something I wanted to add to my hoof filing cabinet. |
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| Clarissa |
What would be the difference between the way the arab in “Plastic Shoes on Front” has been dressed for shoeing & the way the draft in “Sole Pressure” was dressed? The second horse was said to have sole pressure due to the shoe pressing on the sole behind the toe. The arab has the same dressing hence the same position for the shoe.
If you scroll down further in the ‘plastic shoes’ you can see the hooves have been rasped with a rocker to the toe making the shoes slightly rounded once applied. It seems they’re supposed to be that way. And what about the blood line around the toe? And if I dubbed back Sonny’s toes to the same extent as that draft has had hers dubbed, I’d have 3 farriers here ripping me apart even worse!  & Rick’s posts would be withheld indefinitely! 
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| RickB. |
The warmblood has the toes chopped off to a more extreme extent.
For the sake of this discussion, the shoe position is relevant to sole pressue only to the extent of how much sole depth/thickness and concavity is present.
My take on it is that the trim is imprecise and due to the malleability of the plastic, it has conformed to the hoof surface. Whether this is a good thing or not, cannot be determined from that one photo. However, considering how much the toe has been backed up/thinned, I would hazard a guess that long term, there will be additional/increased dorsal wall deformation .
A consequence of laminar disinterdigitation causing some bleeding. To me, not a major issue, rather a warning that the trim and/or orthotic selection and application may be incorrect or, at a minimum, needs tweaking.
Perhaps, perhaps not. If you left the hooves looking like those pictured, then indeed, I would be less than complimentary with my comments. Something to remember/consider is that new growth follows old, so if you leave all that distortion present you stand little chance of correctly managing/fixing it. This of course assumes that you/the owner are instituting the other equine management practices that are a necessary component of successful remediation of the problem(s).
They pretty much already are, so I don't really know why I so perversely continue to offer my insights, advise, opinions. It is perhaps time for me to catch that train out of town.... However, before I go I'll post a few photos of my everyday work so that it won't be said of me that I was "all brag and no buckle". I have only a few photos of my work because I never considered it either important or relevant for me to keep a photographic record. Those few photos I do have, are mostly of horses with hoof pathology that piqued my interest in memorializing them. Have fun dissecting my work. 
Only worked on this one once at a horse show: 
1st/0nly time I worked on this horse: 
shoes I removed and what I replaced them with: 
The ''piece d resistance" 
And, always remember: 
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| JackPNH |
I don't agree with the way the shoes have been fitted to the draft either, just from the pics there are about half a dozen thing wrong and we haven't seen sole pics yet.
Steve |
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| RickB. |
Please enumerate the things you see as wrong, and why. Thanks. |
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| whudson |
I certainly did not mean that as a dig...and I really think that I have a lot to learn from your posts. I love reading them. Newbe trimmer here...I need all I can get. It just meant...why not say what you want to say. I think we all know the common LOL, ROFL, BTW etc. I don't know what this means...."IMNTBCHO" or this "Caveat Emptor"....hmmm maybe I'm opening myself up to being called "stupid" here  Oh well ....'Que sera, sera'
Keep posting, I'm an eager reader. Just be gentle on us newbie trimmers and not so computer savvy people
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| RickB. |
OK, fair enough.
I thought I did.... 
'In My Never To Be Considered Humble Opinion' and 'Let the Buyer Beware'
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| whudson |
I just went through the case studies as I now have found the time  Sorry.
What I see in abundance is contracted heels and more contratcted heels, loooong toes and more looooong toes. Maybe if we addressed those? 
I'm thinking this farrier has offered "bandaid" solutions to the owners. Kind of like you go to your Dr and say " I have heartburn" and he gives you a script. It provides an immediate relief but what you don't realise is that it is a much bigger problem...maybe the heartburn is a warning sign that things...just ain't right. The script makes you feel better initially but the warning sign has been ignored....yet again. Symptoms have gone away but have only been masked. Unless the true problem is addressed.. the major problems will again show their ugly face. Ok fly at me boys and girls feel free to critisize but that's what I see. (I'm always scared to post on this farrier part of the forum 'cause I usually get bashed)  My confidence is expecting a blow
Come at me Give it a go....I'm ready
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| RickB. |
Indeed. In fact, in one of my earlier posts(which has only recently been released by the mods) on the subject I noted:
Problem is, by the time my posts are made available, the discussion has usually moved on/turned a page and my efforts are lost or unknown. In effect, for me, "the juice just isn't worth the squeeze". So, once this thread runs its course, I'll bid you(the collective) adieu.
I think you may only be seeing part of the picture. Though I have no quarrel with your observations, my impression is that he is presenting cases that were new to his custom and his treatment protocols seem to be intended to address the issues presented. Whether those protocols are going to help or be 'correct' is grist for a different mill
Why care? Why be scared? Its just an internet forum chock full of lots of nonsense occasionally interspersed with a kernel of good information, advise, knowledge. Put that afore mentioned grist mill to work and you'll end up with flour fit for cooking.
Consider it a 'call to arms'. Don Quixote would be proud.
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| spurrit |
Perhaps if you learned even the most basic of manners, you could post like everyone else. [quote="RickB.:93966"]Why care? Why be scared? Its just an internet forum chock full of lots of nonsense occasionally interspersed with a kernel of good information, advise, knowledge. Put that afore mentioned grist mill to work and you'll end up with flour fit for cooking.
[quote] Because people like you insist on making an intelligent exchange of ideas painful. I think the only reason you use the internet is because nobody in real life can stand to talk for you that long. Might I suggest you rub a little Preparation H on your head? |