Could really use some help......(NEW update page 9)

learningthedance · Could really use some help......(NEW update page 9)

It's a very long story (I will share later), but for right now, I just need help with her feet ASAP.

These pictures are from yesterday (before) , and then today (afters). I will be going back daily to treat her feet, thrush and very mushy/soft wet heal bulbs?? Her heals are extremely sore.

I really need some help here. I wish I was further along with my trimming, but I am doing the best I can with the limited knowledge/experience I presently have.

I am totally oppened to suggestions, comments, guidance...I will take anything anyone has to offer to help speed things up and keep Gypsy as comfortable as possible.

I feel like I need to be doing/taking more off, but also, like if I DO anymore, I am going to hurt her worse then she already is.

TIA

EDIT TO ADD: This took me forever, as I would take a bit, and let her have her foot back. She is VERY sore, so it is baby steps, with lots of breaks.

appellativo

Do you have a giddyupflix.com membership (rent horse videos)? It looks like her feet are very similar to the off the track thoroughbred in the 'That's My Horse' series by Pete Ramey. Possibly you could get some good ideas from renting those three videos. I'd check it out.

karmikacres

I would not touch a thing without radiographs. Are there any professional trimmers near you? Pads might be a good start for her comfort, but I would say you have a pretty extreme case there. You could be dealing with a fractured tip of P3. What is her history?

Leah??? Any other thoughts?

Mike

Leah

Well I am a HUGE fan of rads!

I agree with Mike-this is NOT a case from someone that is not very experienced! Do you have access to a trimmer? Who is teaching you?

LTD-do you have any older photos to see what the hooves looked like a few months back?

If not, what is the background on this horse/hoof?

Who was providing the hoof care before you? Is he still involved? Is you vet involved?

Can you take photos like Mike's sticky post? It is hard to see any landmarks on that solar shot.

Whatever you do, please do NOT trim anymore off of this foot. I would also be very hesitant to soak it and soften the hoof at this point.

Thrush is always a concern but the least of my worries looking at this hoof.

If you can answer those questions, I am sure many of us will do our best to get you in the right direction. BUT PLEASE get rads if you can.

Leah

karmikacres

learningthedance

They don't want to spend any money on her. They are planning on having her put down, unless I take her. I am just sick about it. I broke this horse (my first and only) 16 years ago, and begged over the years to have her, but they wouldn't part with her. I fell in love with her many moons ago, and she has always been so special to me. He just called me the other day to say..."take her she is yours". No one has rode her since I did all those years ago, and she is a mess. Burrs, scars (HUGE one on her shoulder he didn't know about till I pointed it out), very obese, and her feet UGH!!. I couldn't stop crying yesterday when I saw her, and she nickered from the across the field, THEN, I watched her hobble over to me and bury her head in my arms, and I have no idea what I am going to do. It's been about 10 years since I saw her. He will have her put down next week if I don't take her. I am just a wreck right now.

EDIT TO ADD: The owner had a stroke about 8 years ago, and I believe this is when all the care stopped. As far as the farm hand knows, she hasn't had her feet done for well over a year. (he said between 1 and 3???) has had no shots, worming, nothing. She lives on about 40 acres with two others, and that's it. I think maybe they got round bails with the cattle in the winter.

karmikacres

If you can get radiographs, it will make things a lot easier going forward. You will at least know if there is hope or not. If you just want her to be pasture sound, I have seen some pretty amazing recoveries, but we need to know what the starting point is.

I take it you are near Toronto?

Mike

learningthedance

jokersmama

O man I feel for you I sorry! ((HUGS))! I am in a surprisingly similar situation where it's me or nobody. Trying to help a horse belonging to someone else, fixing a mess they made.

If you do take her, can you get rads? Like everyone said that will be the deciding factor on whether or not to even try and continue with her feet. It can be done... if her coffin bone is still in tact. But you do need to know if it's even worth the trouble and pain of trying to help her. Sometimes the most humane thing is to let them go and be out of pain and at least you could make that decision if you got rads.

How sad. I'm sorry you have to deal with the mess someone else made, that SUCKS!

Leah

I had another thought. Mike do you think it could be a chronic founder, long term rotation with deterioration of the tip of P3?

That might account for that funky shape.

If it is missing, you are talking a terribly long rehab and too many ups and downs to count.

Knowing the condition of the coffin bone in a case like this is essential.

Digital rads, if you can, so you can post them here.

Newfman

No magic bullet in my gun either. I agree with the above, rads to determine the extent of bone loss (if any), then deciding on the course of action. I have no problem with making a call to the humane society and filing charges as wel, but hey, that is just me. I was never very good at justifying animal cruelty.

oldmac_donald

Just another thought LTD. There is no crime in having her put to sleep yourself. "Better a year too early then a minute too late".

Whilst I am all for you trying to rehab her (you go girl!), if you decide that, in her case, the end does not justify the means - and this looks like a seriously nasty rehab case - then by all means, have her laid to rest. There is no kinder act.

Just another thought.

Terrible that you and your mare should have to got through this, what an ordeal. I am facing a very similar case here with my other horse which I sold

I'm disgusted by the condition he is now in, but he's not bad enough to warrent attention by authorities. Makes me sick. I know if I get him back (I have first buy-back, and they currently won't sell him) it will be to have him put down due to badly managed ringbone. Long story.

Newfman

I'm not totally convinced that the big sleep is going to be necessary. The rads are, A) to give you an idea of how sound she 'could' be in the future with well managed care. B) Determine if the means, justifies the end.

This horse may eventually end up a great trail horse with a much happier look on her face, she may only make it to lawn ornament status or could end up a heart breaking train wreck. I can't possibly tell you how many horses I want to go around and 'collect'. The more I learn and understand about the needs of the horse, the more heartbroken I become by what I see and hear. The only way you can prevent yourself from being a basket case over her is to get an idea of what the outcome potentially 'could' be. I would say "realistically" but, our starry eyed hope+experience of all who believe in the horses abilitiy to heal reality, is a bit different than most of the medical communities ideas. I would have to see the coffin bone (prefferably in an x-ray), and if a really good portion of it is there and you would be satisfied to have her sound enough to live out her years munching hay and carb safe, then get your rasp, a box of kleenex and get to work. There will likely be highs and lows, but you have lots of support. I think she will surprise you, some of it is going to be up to her.

Newfman

Hey, you are near Michigan? Isn't Bowker setting up a laminitis rehab/research facility in Michigan?

PasoBaby_CarolU

Durasol will treat thrush and help her feet feel better. Other then that, I agree with pads and radiographs to see what is going on inside. You'll also need a good trimmer who knows what he/she is looking at in the radiographs and can trim accordingly. It certainly does look like she foundered several months ago, but healthy hoof behind it. She may also have had an overload of supplements sometime in the past. I've seen a horse slough of it's entire outer wall from too much selenium. That horse's feet looked a lot like this mare's.

I have found the easiest and best quick pads are those kitchen pads. About $7 at Walmart, 1/2" thick, and each one makes a over a dozen pads. Lots and LOTS of duct tape. I'd treat the thrush first and then put the pads on. Otherwise you are creating an ideal environment for it. She needs to be in clean, dry shavings. Then get your radiographs and go from there. I think Mike and Leah on here can help you read them.

Good luck.

Leah

You should also discuss pain management with your vet. I am not normally an 'advil' girl but bute in this case may really give the horse relief.

Chronic pain is going to increase cortisol levels and that will not help matters.

Relieving the pain will be the first step in allowing the body to heal.

Of course consult with your vet.

karmikacres

Yes, thinking fractured, or missing tip of P3. The big downside to this is some horses will never grow normal tissues again.

Agree on the pain management, but don't let her get crazy if she gets to feeling a little better. She still has four flat tires.

Mike

Newfman

I would set up a mustang pen. about 12' by 12' (too small to build any speed, with a run in attached. Could fill with pea gravel over sand.

But, that is once you are committed of course. My surgeon said a few years back (in ref. to pain management)... just enough to make you comfortable, but not enough to forget.

ForgeNHammer

Leah

Newf-are you certain about the pea gravel on a possible founder/broken bone?

I know some people are a fan of it-I tried it and I just am not so certain about for this case.

If that coffin bone is almost outside, I think deep bedding, pads, sand, frog support.

Thoughts?

learningthedance

Gypsy will be coming to my barn. She was walking a little better today. I mean...a little, but better. I think just getting some of that massive flair off helped with the leverage and made her a bit more comfortable. I was out today and made pads for her feet and treated for thrush again. She was hesitant to walk at first, but after a few steps, she was following me around and settling into her new slippers. Getting some fly spray on her and brushing her and just loving her and she seemed so at peace. We had a very good talk, and I am now officially in it for the long haul. It felt good to see her actually lift her head when she walked. September 2nd, I have the O.K. and I will bring her home with me at my sisters farm. I got her stall ready today. Scraped it down to remove every last bit of gravel, and filled it up deep with shavings. She will be bedded deep, but turned out padded so she can still get as much movement as possible at her own pace. I have 3 large loafing area's with Pea Gravel already there for my boys. She won't be going in that area until she is much more comfy, but hopefully, she will be exploring those area's and happy to do so. Might be wishful thinking, but I am trying my best to keep a positive outlook on things.

We have a long road ahead of us, but I am up for it and after seeing her today, I know in my heart, it's the right thing to do.

Please welcome Gypsy as the newest member of my little familly.

EDIT TO ADD: I am also being realistic here. I know if things don't improve, she will be put down with kindness and feel loved. I will not let her suffer nor will I let her have to face this alone. Either way, I will listen to her every word and do what I know is best for her.

Thanks again for all the input. It means allot to me and I am taking it all in.

jokersmama

Welcome Gypsy!

Know you are loved and have a whole arsenal of farriers to help your new mommy down the right path.
You're a very lucky mare!

Newfman

Leah, I would be more concerned if the bone where protruding but I don't recall that being the case, and then again, I have only had my first sip of coffee and don't remember my name yet (worked late last night

)

Pea gravel can certainly be done wrong. A few inches of sand with atleast 4 inches of pea gravel over the top. It needs to be loose not full of dirt and packed out. You, as a tenderfoot, should have no problem walking on it barefoot. In fact, go to your local gravel pit, have them point it out and go take a stroll. One of the things about loose pea gravel, it spreads and gives under the feet. If the patient wants to bury her toes and transfer weight onto her heels for awhile, the pea gravel is, sort of maleable (for lack of a better word) and will allow her to do this easily. It also spreads out under the foot evenly and acts as a pad, in and of itself, distributing her weight across the foot instead of having pressure points. Sand will do the same thing but it packs out very rapidly. The sand on the bottom of the pea gravel works as a drain bed, and provides 'give' to the gravel layer. Mix the two up together and you have.....1/2'minus gravel...basically. That will pack out and you can put it on your driveway. So, the pea gravel basically "is" your pad, and it is her wedge if she wants one. It is also moisture neutral and causes neither excessive hydration nor dehydration of the hoof.

Bedding deep in wood products....to me, that is a problem. Wood just sucks the life out of these feet. It promotes excessive drying. You can pad the feet, and should, either way for now...maybe. Mostly get the mare comfortable enough, not just for standing, but to walk on her own, say from hay pile to hay pile or something.

That's my take on it anyways

learningthedance

Newfman

So, now that I have said that.....

There are also budget concerns (usually) and practicality issues. If I had my own dump trailer I could go get 2 yards of pea gravel and 2 yards of sand (enough for a 12x12 pen) for about $35. That changes when you are dependant upon a company to go get it and deliver it (usualy in an overly large dump truck) and you may have to pay a minimum small load charge as an extra expense.

If you can get the hooves down to a reasonably "normal" conformation, you could get away with a set of Rx boots or old macs. It may require some vet wrapping or whatever. She isn't likely to go galloping off, so perfect fit isn't 'that' critical. Then she could use the wood bedding for ...bedding and have her feet protected padded and medicated as needed.

If I were to build a pen, I would buy or borrow 3- 12' corral panels and butt them up to a run-in shed. I would buy 3- 12' 2"x10" pine boards and line the base of my corral (as a retaining wall) to keep the gravel in.

Good luck, keep your chin up.

Dennis

PasoBaby_CarolU

Don't forget that bute is a strong anti-inflammatory. It not only reduces the pain from inflammation, but also reduces the inflammation and aids in healing. I have no problems using it. If you think she is becoming too active, restrict her movements or reduce the dosage.

I think Bute gets a bad rap. It is a good, safe, useful drug when used properly.

I am a wimp on pea gravel. I have it here. I also have horses that wimp on it. I like sand the best of all beddings. There is also a coarse sand, that is in between washed sand and pea gravel that they use for a lot of track surfaces. That is one of my favorites.

I would put her on wood shavings right now though. I'm pretty sure she needs deep, deep bedding and will spend a lot of time laying down. If she's on sand or gravel she'll get open sores from it.

Newfman

My wife calls me MacGyver for a reason I guess.

Medical supply stores sell "egg crate" foam pads. They are for bed ridden patients to help prevent decubitis ulcers (bed sores). You could blace one UNDER the rubber mat in the trailer. You might even get one for free if you talk to the Administrator at a Convalescent/Rehab facility. It would be used, you will want to wear gloves, but if it is um...to used they won't let you have it anyways (bio hazard).

This will allow cushioning without instability. Being unstable in your hooves is as bad as lack of padding.

Make sense?

learningthedance

Oh, and I forgot to mention. When I went out yesterday to check on her, there was a huge pile of apples inside the gate. It took me and my 6 year old half hour to pick them all up. We got two 5 gallon pails, and one large tub full and threw the rest as far as we could. I asked John (the owner) about it, and he said the neighbor asked if it was O.K. to bring them some apples from their tree, and he said sure. I don't think he realized he was bringing over a wheel barrel full, and just going to dump the entire load right there.

I am sooooo glad I got there when I did. They hadn't found them yet.

I will just be so happy to get her home.

Newfman

learningthedance

Leah

Am I the only one freaking out that there are all these plans for movement and no one has ANY idea the condition of the coffin bone?

I am also getting very confused.

Is this horse is some acute phase of founder? Are there digital pulses? Heat?

IF so, this is NOT something to mess around with-the horse needs medication NOW. Cold hosing NOW. And does not need a trailer ride.

The longer the inflammation is there, the worse the chances.

It needs support under p3 NOW

I agree with all the fancy pads and movement ONCE THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE ACUTE PHASE.

If there is broken coffin bone it needs support before moving it.

He needs pain relief for heaven's sake.

learningthedance

There is no heat in the feet and no pounding pulse. They are tearing down the fences the first week of September to plow the fields. The cattle went last week, the horses remain. If she is not out the field, the vet will be called to put her down. I am doing everything I can, and am not just jumping into this with my eyes closed. I am trying my best here. I am certainly not stupid and take this very seriously. I know at some of the larger rehab facilities, they will transport horses in that have penetrated soles and can hardly walk, have that typical founder stance and are in obvious pain and trembling.

This is not the case with this mare. I think she has gone through the worst months ago probably, now lets hope that too much damage hasn't been done.

I don't have a lot of time to work some serious magic, so any help would be greatly appreciated, at how you might approach this problem.

I am here looking for some help and support.

Leah

OK good. that makes much more sense. I didn't realize the details. Sorry about that.

Are you going to get rads once she is home?

learningthedance

jokersmama

I like the idea of big soft diaper pads (on her hooves

), the foam pad idea for the trailer and bute for the ride and maybe several days after.

From the pics it looks to me like most of her discomfort is probably that toe flare, and crease in the wall from it. It seems it would be like bending your finger nail back all the way to the cuticle every time you move.

You are the one there with the horse, trust yourself and listen to her, we can only see the pics and guess at this point.

Just my opinions

Playenatural

Is there a way you can schedule Rads with your vet on your way home? Less travel? More info?

By the way, I'm cheering you both on.

karmikacres

Newfman

karmikacres

Leah

PasoBaby_CarolU

Mike is right. Someone sent me a post once from a farrier site that had some horrendous x-rays in it. They were amazing.

I wouldn't assume anything. I like Shannon's idea of stopping by the vet's on the way home. My vet has a portable x-ray machine. It also has a long cord and go inside the trailer if you pull up outside - no unloading.

jokersmama

Some questions.
If P3 is close to the outside wouldn't that show in the sole as shallow collateral grooves and some bulging? Also the hairline, wouldn't that have more of a dip in it at the toe if P3 was that far sunk and forward into the capsule?

Just honest curious student questions.

Leah

Alona-no.

My scary case right now is a hoof with lots of sole and it is BOWL shaped-not smooth but has a bowl shaped-not convex.

He has collateral groove depth.

The tip of his coffin bone is knocking on the door to the outside. There is a small hole that I am darn sure is the window to the coffin bone. There is maybe 1-2mm of 'cover'

ALL landmarks were wrong. EVERY one.

Freaked me out.

jokersmama

Well CRAP!
Just when I thought I was starting to understand things!
But I guess like everything else there are exceptions to the "rules" or "landmarks".
I wish I owned an x-ray machine! I would probably glow in the dark though!

Leah

THIS is exactly why I am so opposed to people 'helping' horses without experience.

One mistake can create TERRIBLE pain for a horse. A non mistake can cause pain.

The healing process is a rollercoaster. The horse can improve and crash several times over-it is not fair to the horse.

Well intentions are good but these cases are very VERY delicate. A vet MUST be involved to provide the tools for the trimmer to know what to do-he has to be involved for pain management and to be available if the horse really crashes.

I know everyone here love's horses and wants to be helpful. But this case (and yours Alona) and very advanced cases.

Things can turn on a dime.

The home needs to be prepared with pain management, a vet on call and the knowledge and ability to medicate the horse if necessary, otherwise the horse could suffer at the trimmer's hands.

What would happen? I am not speaking to LTD-I have no idea what her experience is. I hope she and you have vets available a phone call away or the ability to hit the vein with meds if needed.

Or a calm nature and cool approach.

karmikacres

Leah is spot on. This is a high level case. Even with rads, things can go wrong in a big hurry.

I have seen some rads of P3 that would make you lose sleep at night. Stuff from a pretty normal looking foot that would end up with dermal layer or bone being exposed with just a normal trim.

Mike

Newfman

Newfman

Newfman

As far as a trailer ride to the Vet (yes, damnit I am on a roll this morning!)

If I recall, the concern was trying to keep the animal comfortable and reduce the chances for further injury, and to get her home and on a comfortable non-moving surface ASAP. So a little cruise on over to the Vet, which no doubt would be absolutely stress free for this little mare, just to save the Vet from having to bring his/her happy butt all the way out to see the horse seems a bit....

ludicrous. Maybe you can then pop in to the local Drive-in theatre and let her watch 'Flika' for some inspiration.

Just get her home, make her comfy, call the Vet. Infact, you can set an appointment, and have the Vet meet you there a couple hours after your arrival.

....at which time he will say, we are gonna' have to do a hoof resection, a tenotomy and get a farrier to slap some shoes on.

All that aside, is there anyone besides Jokersmama and myself that aren't trying to freak this poor person out? Take a deep breath and settle down.

This is a chronic case, NOT an acute case.

This horse was a phone call away from being Alpo, NOT the next triple crown contender.

She is doing her research, that is also why she is here, shi is NOT just running out to the horse with a rasp and chainsaw.

She undoubtedly doesn't have the money to have Leah fly out and then pay her for a few weeks care and trimming, nor does she have the ability to ship this horse to Bowkers Rehab center.

There are so few truly qualified trimmers per hundered miles that are available to help and the only other alternatives are typically learn it yourself and take it slow, or call the Farrier for shoes and a hoof resection. Let's not forget, there are plenty of hack farriers as well. Hard to find one that has both the art, and knowledge.

Leah

Newfman

Newfman

And for the record...

I would still get rads done.

At this point in my life, if a horse didn't have what looked to be perfect bare feet, i wouldn't even 'BUY' a horse with out first x-raying the feet.

sebocat

I just read the thread and am bewildered....

I saw rads a long time ago, I don't recall where, but it appeared that P3 had the ski-slope look to it. Rad was a foundered hoof, not sure about anything past that. I didn't think much of it at the time.

I currently own a horse with side-bone. The bones have (in my understanding) changed shape. Rads showed the changes, as I recall, vet called it calcification? I think....

Is it trauma that causes this?

LTD Please keep us posted. I am amazed at your kindness that you are willing to give this little mare a chance. I'm sure you have a long road ahead, and I would love to hear your story.

oldmac_donald

Is she?

Personally, I don't think she is. If this was my horse, I would of had her PTS, simply because I would not be equipped financially or emotionally to deal with the rehab. I would not risk the horse suffering because someone on a forum told me "Yep, trim it up, she'll be right", and it turned out to be more serious then I was prepared to.

Honestly, maybe she will be OK. But I think Mike and Leah are correct in their guidance - get rads, get yourself an on-call vet, and prepare for a rough trot. Even if their advice turns out to be more over-cautious then the situation reveals itself to be, isn't it better that the OP is over-prepared?

LTD, do you have any sole-side shots? Maybe I missed them if you've already posted them

karmikacres

Thunder Hollow

learningthedance

Thanks everyone for your feedback, and especially the hugs!!

Just a small step forward, or at least I like to see it that way.

I went out again yesterday. The 3 horses were WAY out in the field. It took me a while to actually find them. I just stood and watched to see how she was moving. All the other days, Gypsy was trailing far behind the other two and trying to keep up. Yesterday, they were following her and she was leading the way.

May not seem like much, but it sure made me feel good seeing it.

I will be sure to keep everyone posted.

P.S. Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to send me PM'S. The support is greatly appreciated.

Newfman

I will try to put this less ...abrassively.

Mike, I feel that you were siting a more 'exagerated' example than what you now describe... This is something I am more familiar with, but still can't say that I have seen it past the line of new hoof wall growth. I will have to keep an eye out for that.

Newfman

Since I seemed to have rubbed too many people the wrong way and have now been threatened with being banned, I will now apologize to all that i have offended, and bid you all farewell.

learningthedance

What the heck is going on here??????????????threatened with being banned???????

Wow. Sorry. I came looking for support.

You can close this thread now. I will no longer be posting in it.

Again, I would like to thank those of you that offered support and help. I will keep those few of you posted and updated as things continue to unfold.

Thanks again.

ElaineC

Autumn

alva

ElaineC said:

4theloveofjake

Chiming in here, I also was enjoying the questions and answers of all and hope Newfman will continue to post. I don't see why you would get banned for talking and sharing your concerns and stating your opinions. I didn't see that anyone was out of line personally. No trolling, snarkyness or anything like that. LTD, I'm glad to hear Gypsy is feeling better. Being the owner of 3 barefoot, completely sound horses, I am fascinated with all the information being discussed. I may need to know it someday.

Sherry

learningthedance

Leah

LTD-sorry if you feel like anyone was speaking to you like your were an idiot. This forum is fortunate to have a few professionals that post-those with more experience are just trying to share to keep you from what could be a terribly painful experience.

I did not realize you were a seasoned trimmer from what I read in your first post. Apologies and best of luck.

Do be sure you get your advice from those that have experience in rehabilitation-particular experience with extreme deformities like this. Ask questions to make sure you are not receiving well meaning advice from people that have only viewed a video or two.

The horse deserves experience not experimentation.

I know Alona recently had good luck with a chronic founder-hopefully you will see the same positive results.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Just for the record, I had two complaints and asked Newfman NICELY to be a little less "abrasive" in his posts. It was his response to that in PM which earned him a quote from the rules and a warning.

Being the Admin is a fine balancing act with no way to make everyone happy. Since I received complaints I had to make the request. It was his choice to respond to my request the way he did, just as it is now his choice to continue posting advice and questions here in a civil tone, if he so cares to.

What we try to keep here is a civil discussion (re-read the title of this Forum on the Index page even) even when the advice differs and the points of view are opposing.

It is possible to disagree without being disagreeable.

4theloveofjake

Carol,

I completley respect your desicion and am not questioning that you felt the need to warn. I am just trying to understand what Newfman said that warranted the warning because I was really enjoying the discussion and honestly did not see anything snarky or trolly on his part. Thanks !!

jokersmama

Thanks Leah, but it's not good yet. And it is just "LUCK" at this point. I wish I had enough experience to be confident in what I'm doing. Quite frankly I'm scared to death all the time! I'm just really happy she is upright and moving still.

ElaineC

Someone thinks Newfman is abrasive??!? I can see I need to start posting more again

Personally, I'm very grateful that we have some fantastic pros here on the forum, and that they arent' afraid to speak up and share their knowledge. Its always useful to get opinions from several different directions, and whats truely impressive is that 99.99% of the time, there's no sparks at all. That 0.01% of the time, its usually pretty minor.

Look at any other board, heck go on any other board and post a message with "hoof" in the title. Get some popcorn, sit back, and watch it roll! Just bring along some fireproof undies

Autumn

Morning Glory

LTD, Please continue to keep us posted on your progress with this mare. We are all learning from your situation. You did fine with your first trim. Gypsy is lucky to have you. Kay

Clarissa

Yep I'll chime in here too as I've been following with interest.

Trying to save a horse is a very emotional thing & PTS is just as emotional. Having or not the finances to do either is also very emotional.

I didn't think any post was out of line. There were very direct words posted but it's a very emotional issue. A person needs to be able to speak their mind without critizism, particularly those with the knowledge we are all hankering after.

I have found all the posts intelligent & to the point. I didn't feel any post was over the top. People have different ways of writing their words & we need to read those words in the context of who wrote them. I don't think any words here have been intended to decry, belittle or otherwise lessen a person's presence here on this thread.

JMHO & thanks for all those who give their knowledge feely on this forum.

karmikacres

Anxiously awaiting radiographs

I honestly have no idea what the issue was with Steve's posts.

Mike

Leah

Autumn

jokersmama

I've got $20.00 to donate to the cost of rads. LTD if you PM me your address I'll send it to you, I know it's not much but it's a start.

Anyone else want to chip in?? Lets show we CAN support each other and not just with words.

I'm pretty sure being a single mom and having horses in this economy has mad it an IF on the rads.

bit

Put me down for 10.00 and I can pay pal that to ya or get you a check. Maybe move this to general chat so that everyone will be sure to see it. What do you think, Carol?

jokersmama

I can't juggle the donations I'm not that organized

You want to volunteer Bit? You were so good at it last time...

karmikacres

Autumn

On page 2 he signed Dennis.
Pretty sure thats his name.

ForgeNHammer

I just saw this for some reason. Definately rads! And I would be thinking about bringing the heels back some maybe a rockered or rolled toe with some sort of frog support like impression material or equipak denpending onhow sore the frog was. Maybe thumb printing the heels. Leather pad to give some compression. I wouldn't leave this one barefoot, there is a huge lack of support to the capsole so adding artificial would be the way to go.

Leah

You could rocker a horse with a potentially low coffin bone?

ElaineW

Here's a 20.00 from Elaine, Jet and Roger!!
just pm me with details!

ForgeNHammer

Leah

But no matter what that will decrease sole thickness in the front.

Since there are other ways to back up the toe, is it even worth it?

jokersmama

Forge, do you have a pic of a "rocker toe" done correctly?

I just don't know the difference and sometimes the same phrases mean different things to different people.

bit

It's up to Carol, and horse's owner, if we try to raise the funds to help horse get rads, and treatment. Hey, it's almost Christmas, we have no colt to rescue this year, so this can be our joint Christmas present to ourselves. I think if we do this, we should help with initial farrier work. Whatever needs to be done after rads are done, what ever that may be. Maintenance will be up to owner, but maybe we can get horse well on the way to healing.
Here's a picture of our Christmas colt, Nic. He is doing great, lbe, healthy and happy. Would be nice to feel this way again, wouldn't it?

Autumn

I would like to donate too if we can get a paypal account set up that would probably work best & easiest.
I would like to see this girl feeling better again!

Leah

jokersmama

According to her website in big red letters it is not recommended for foundered horses either.

So the toe rocker backs the toe up all the way into stretched sole? I suppose that would be easier to achieve with shoes you could set them back further to get the breakover back without needing to cut into the stretched sole. But then if you did it with metal shoes how would that help the hoof to grow where it should be? Wouldn't the toe still be growing forward? I guess maybe a toe clip then?

Just thinking on the keyboard. Probably not making any sense either drunken

bit

Just waiting for ok to post on gen chat from Carol. I have pay pal account and take cc's. I can walk her through setting up pay pal and direct deposit into her account. Learning the Dance, if you could post pictures and a little about your horse? We can refer everyone to farrier and hoofcare thread for full story. If Carol is in agreement, as well as Learning to Dance, I'll play treasurer.
I need an estimated amount to do rads and initial hoof care. From there we'll see how we do. If we do this, and you can afford to contribute, please do. I know times are hard, and I am not that great myself. Being part of something bigger than yourself far outweighs the 5 or 10 dollars you give. It saves a life. Remember the original post...I could use a little help here.

jokersmama

Deb,

YOU are awesome!

Playenatural

I do believe Carol left on her trail ride to Bryce National Park.
http://itsaboutthehorse.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?p=34525#34525

bit

ok, we still need permission from Learning the Dance, too. Just gonna sit on this until I hear from both of them, and we'll take it from there. I would like to take on "A" Christmas project this year. If not this, then I bet we could sponsor a horse at a rescue, or make a donation in IATH's name. We can do it every Christmas if ya want.
Time to get this thread back to topic. I'll see you on general chat if this works out.

ForgeNHammer

Leah

operative word being SHOES-very different protocol I should think if the horse is left bare?

Pedestal*Pony

count me in

oldmac_donald

Would shoes be a workable solution in this case? They ARE a tool, after all, so if they could be of help, use 'em.