| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| alexwein |
Crack in hoofThe normal way I know to fix a crack in a hoof and prevent it from getting worse is shoeing the horse. She's not even two and I did not intend to have her shod for two more years, when I start getting her on the rough mountain trails around here. She has a small crack on her front hoof, towards the front of the hoof. It used to be about a half an inch long, now it's about an inch and a half. The farrier will be out to see it next week, but I wonder what people can suggest for solutions that don't involve shoes. He mentioned cleaning it out and epoxy as possible alternatives.Thanks! |
||||
| ForgeNHammer |
Fixing a crack has nothing to do with shoes really. Sometimes shoes will help stabilize until healthy foot is grown but, thats about it IMO. Cracks are caused by an imbalance somewhere. Wheather its flares, one side longer than the other, leverage being created some place?, etc. You just have to figure out which one it is and the crack will go away. Are there any flares or dishing of the dorsal wall or jamming of the coranary band? | ||||
| appellativo |
Will I get smacked if I recommend relieving the pressure on the outer wall by rolling it? I fixed a gelding's terrible crack this way (allowing it to grow out while it was not allowed to perpetuate itself) so I know it works 
|
||||
| Mandy'sMarty |
I've done the same thing Erin described and the crack grew out. I believe the crack occurred because of slight wall separation. We continued to roll the bottom edge of the crack to relieve pressure on it. And made some adjustments in diet to minimize stretched white line. | ||||
| calatar |
Eclipse had shoes and a crack when I rescued him. Pulled the shoes and with regular barefoot trims it is now completely gone. Relieveing pressure is key, in the spring I would sometimes trim it as often as every two weeks. It took about 6 months or so to get rid of it with a balanced barefoot trim. I have pictures at beginning and 3 months later but haven't gotten around to take a picture since it's been gone.
10/27/08 
1/25/09 
My other horse Calatar had a crack when I bought him. It's been seven years and he still has a crack...because the hoof wall is weakened throughout due to an old injury to the coronary band. It ranges from 1/2" to 1 and 1/2" depending on how diligent I am about trimming him. Doesn't bother him at all. 
|
||||
| alexwein |
Thanks for the responses! Ummm, what is "rolling it"? Yes to the question of flaring, though it's worse on her other front foot. She's still growing and developing, so I'm not sure if that's an issue. She also has had some thrush on both front feet, even though I clean her feet religiously. When I first took her home, she was in a paddock that was quite muddy. I've since moved her to a different paddock. But she had a hoof abscess because of the way the thrush was eating away at and softening her soles. The thrush is mostly on the outer edges of the sole, so I wondered if that could be contributing to the crack in her hoof? I also wonder why she is getting thrush in the first place. She's in very good condition and grew up getting her nutritional needs met. I've never had any of my horses have thrush issues. She also had other issues with her front hooves when I first got her. The vet and farrier both were worried she could develop a club foot, but her feet seem to be growing at the right angle now that she's getting regular trimming. Some of this is likely due to her hind end growing more quickly than her front end, quite common in yearlings. She's evening up, thank goodness, though she's still slightly downhill. The farrier comes out next week and he can help determine what the problem is and where the pressure is coming from. But I want to know more about how these things happen. It's a very minor crack, but still, with the issues she's had with these front feet, I want to correct whatever is going wrong now. |
||||
| calatar |
Erin's advice was somewhat of an inside joke. Lots of different perspectives here on trimming, that's why I love this board.
Here is some reading to get you started: http://www.easycareinc.com/Education/articles/mustang_roll.aspx http://thehorseshoof.com/HC_Roll.html http://www.hoofrehab.com/wallcracks.htm Oh and we'd LOVE to see pictures :-). |
||||
| appellativo |
Not that I'm advising you go and do this yourself, but to explain what rolling the hoof wall is, you trim the excess wall to an appropriate height (which can vary depending on what the horse needs), then while the hoof is picked up, set the rasp at about a 45 degree angle and rasp sort of a bevel around the outer hoof wall (as opposed to the inner hoof wall....they each have a slightly different texture and position in relation to the white line), so that the outer hoof wall is not being 'pried' when the horse breaks over (when his toe goes from flat to perpendicular to the ground).
Imagine if you had a huge split in the center of your middle fingernail. Put your hand flat on the ground like a horse, then 'walk' it forward. Feel the prying force? If you can keep the prying force off the crack until it's grown out, it'll go away instead of leaving the hoof long there and it perpetuating itself. When you put the bevel or roll there, you actually cause breaking over to become a 'COMPRESSIONAL' force (pushing it together) instead of a prying force. |
||||
| alexwein |
Great analogy, because I wasn't getting it until you gave it!  It makes a lot of sense. I don't have the expertise to do this...yet. I am looking into a course taught locally on hoof trimming et al.
Calatar, thanks for the links! I also thought to take a picture today, which I'll post as soon as I get home. Thanks!! I definitely want to educate myself on this and not just rely on the farrier. |
||||
| alexwein |
I have some pictures of the crack in her hoof:
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Alexandria |
||||
| calatar |
Compare that crack to the photos of the ones I posted...
With regular trimming I don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of that crack. That right front looks a little strange though...could you take pictures of both front feet (using the guidelines for hoof photos http://itsaboutthehorse.myfastforum.org/about830.html ) and post those? |
||||
| Mandy'sMarty |
Alexandria---When you photograph the front feet, be sure to include a photo of both front feet next to each other, shot from front view. I think Alayna and I may be seeing the same thing. It appears that the front feet are not similar. If so, then you may have a structural imbalance happening above the feet. A structural imbalance could possibly be causing stress on that left foot where the hoof has cracked. ForgeNHammer mentioned this earlier.
You have already mentioned the possibility of club foot issues. This could all be related. I'm no expert but it is my understanding that many club foot issues are actually situations where the foot is remodeling because of an imbalance elsewhere. Once the imbalance is corrected, the foot can respond with a normal shape. Form follows function. Get those photos. |
||||
| alexwein |
Hi, thanks for the feedback. I'm going out of town till Friday so won't be able to post more pictures. You are right that the two front feet are not the same. That is somewhat recent, because they were growing well and were fairly even. The right foot has started to flare. The imbalance you mention may well be growth patterns. Her croup shot up, now her front end is growing, so lots of structural changes. Of course no one knows where things will be once she's all grown. I'm not sure if it is common for young horses to have these changes in hoof growth patterns. She is not in danger of a club foot any longer, according to the farrier and the vet. But there are definitely many changes taking place.
Thanks so much for helping and I'll have more photos posted on Friday. I'll check out those guidelines! |
||||
| alexwein |
Okay, so I'm freaking out now about my horse's other front hoof. It has definitely started to flare in the past month or so. The farrier told me there would be some changes and some flaring, whatever, as she grew. Does anyone have experience with horses her age and front end hoof changes like this? I have been reading about weight imbalances, i.e., compensation causing flares, etc. About three months ago, she had an abscess in the hoof with the little crack (thrush the culprit), but the flaring did not happen then. Also, she is thrushy in the FRONT part of her sole, not around the frog, which is where I'm used to seeing it.
Now I'm worrying that she is not developing properly. She is a lot less downhill than she was (growth spurts) and I don't see any evidence of anything. But I know that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't something going on. She is stiffer when going left in a circle and being asked to change direction than the reverse. Going right in a circle, she is less confident, more resistant, though that has been evening out lately. I am out of town and can't take more pictures and I will when I get home. I see the farrier on Friday. But I'd love to have more input about how to manage whatever is going on with her. If it's part of her development at this age, I won't worry about it. But if there is some kind of imbalance, I want to deal with it now. Also, how might one find a really good horse masseuse/therapist if there is something going on? How do you know someone really knows what they are doing? Thanks!!! |
||||
| Mandy'sMarty |
Alexandria---Don't freak out. You don't have enough information to know what is going on yet. I think it is good that you are paying attention to your horse. Change in the horse's hoof or hooves is usually a response to something else elsewhere. Elsewhere in the horse's body, elsewhere in diet, environment, etc. Think of it as feedback and not a permanent condition. There are others here very knowledgeable in the hoof who are available to help.
Meanwhile, check out the free yoga video for your horse at this link: http://www.my-endurance.net/video...for-your-horse?xg_source=activity If you like what you see there, I can direct you to April's website. There you can read more about what she does and the DVD's available. April is based in the Auburn, CA area. She is very good. She does travel to teach clinics. Perhaps she'd travel to you. If you are still interested, perhaps I can help you find a practitioner I know closer to you. |
||||
| alexwein |
Mandy'sMarty you are a wonder! I am definitely interested. I am myself a very committed yoga practitioner so yoga for my horse. Wow. And thank you for your words. It helps. I do sometimes panic a bit about my baby. I worry about her development et al, since I know a lot gets put into place at this age. Like a good physical foundation. Anyway, just from this video, I am getting clues about how to really LOOK at my horse and SEE what is going on. I want to get very educated on how to read my horse's body and mind in much more subtle ways. So yes, please, I'd love to have the site address and more information about April. |
||||
| jokersmama |
It's really hard to tell from the photo it could just be a shadow on the other foot without the crack.
The crack looks superficial to me...does it go all the way through the wall? I agree we need more photos. It's easiest if you set the camera on the ground about 6 to 8 inches from the hoof make sure there is not a big clump of dirt in between the two also, and set your camera to the "flower" setting that is for close up. Don't freak out yet! That hoof just looks a little odd and it could just be the angle of the photo and the shadows. |
||||
| alexwein |
Yeah, I've been looking at other pictures and I don't know that the other hoof is as off as it looks. But I do know it is flaring out to the side and her hooves are looking uneven. This has been within the past month or so. Her hooves looked great after her last trim which was almost 6 weeks ago. I will definitely take pictures on Friday before and after the farrier comes. I'll keep the freak out in check until after that! Thanks again! Now I won't be up at night worrying until I get home.
|
||||
| Mandy'sMarty |
Alexandria--- Here's the link to April's website: www.HolisticHorseWorks.com
Feel free to call her and tell her I sent you. She is my friend, my coach, my endurance mentor. She is the one who pushed me and encouraged me to pursue my studies about the horse. She is the one who introduced me to Regan Golob, my teacher. I have all the DVD's on her website except for the Yoga DVD. There is exceptional information on those DVD's. I recommend starting with Regan's DVD and progressing from there. I looked at the map and now realize how close you are to April. I don't personally know a practitioner closer than she is. |
||||
| alexwein |
Wow, thanks!! She's about a five hour drive from me. I will definitely call her and check out the dvds. |
||||
| Mandy'sMarty |
I'd recommend you call April. I think you'll get a better response. She is sometimes so busy her email responses are very abrupt and cryptic. | ||||
| alexwein |
Will do! Thanks! |
||||
| alexwein |
Just to follow up:
I still haven't been home long enough to take pictures! Had to rush after the farrier since we had a long drive to Portland. The farrier filed off the crack--totally superficial! And he wasn't worried about the uneven growth of her feet or the bit of flaring on the other foot. She's going through some major growth spurts, including the growth of her hooves. He also said that some horses always have a bit of flaring and irregularity. I know there are some variations, but am wondering about flaring being normal. From what I've been reading, flaring would indicate some kind of imbalance that could be corrected with chiropractic, massage, etc. I'm not that concerned now, since I think her body is going through some pretty big developmental changes and it will be a bit before I really can tell where she is at. But I wondered about what he said about flaring and other hoof irregularities being normal. Any thoughts? |
||||
| appellativo |
I agree. some horses will always have flare. Because their trimmer doesn't know any better. 
edit: Not to single out trimmers exclusively though. What owners feed their horses matters too. Certain dietary issues can promote flaring. |
||||
| carefreegirl |
very true, but there are some cases where the flare is the way the horse actually is and it isn't truly a flare, meaning it's the way the hooves and coffin bone are shaped and can look like a flare but isn't, the white line is tight, etc. but that doesn't happen nearly as often as the horse with a flare that always has it because of dietary issues or poor trimming. I'm no expert but I'd say you may need a different trimmer. 
|
||||
| PasoBaby_CarolU |
I had to get my magnifying glass out and finally saw that "crack"
I certainly wouldn't loose sleep over it. But I would take my hasp and hasp a horizontal line across the top of the crack to keep it from cracking farther. You can have your farrier show you how. The 45 degree angle on the hoof will help keep you from getting more cracks. It is not hard to do and doesn't have to be a huge roll or anything, just a nice, smooth angle. I'd also make sure that regardless of weather, the horse has someplace dry and clean to stand. I have raised corals on road base so they drain. This is where I feed them, so they spend most of their time on dry footing. I'd also treat the thrush before it gets worse. You can do CleanTrax, or you can do a 1:10 bleach solution, or any of a number of commercial solutions. If you don't have a soaking boot and don't want to buy one, disposable diapers and duct tape work great. (don't tape to the horse's hair) There are tons of books - and controversy - on hoof trimming. Don't let it scare you away from learning what a foot should look and function like and striving for it, either by educating yourself or your farrier. |
||||
| alexwein |
Ha! That's funny. The farrier filed the little crack away, so I definitely need not have worried. I didn't until several people pointed it out and expressed concern. Then I started to think it might be a problem. The only reason it had not been filed is that he had not yet started working with her on the front of her hoof. He added that this time around. She's still learning and he is taking it slow and easy. He is actually an excellent farrier and works really well with young horses. I am definitely treating the thrush and it is much better. I had to move her to a new paddock to get away from the mud--hard to do around here! She is much better and her soles are firming up nicely. Thanks to all those who responded, btw! I am setting myself to learning more about hooves, which are, after all, the physical foundation of a horse! No hooves, no horse, as they say. There is a local group that teaches a pretty extensive course in hoof trimming and the like. It's pricey, but I hope to be able to take some classes with them. Thanks for the words of encouragement. It IS a bit intimidating! |
||||
| jokersmama |
Good for you for learning all you can, it can only help you and your beautiful girl to have the healthiest start for her young tootsies.
There are endless hoof care site and articles to keep you busy until the end of time. If you can I would recommend starting with Pete Ramey's "Under the Horse" DVD's. It is full of basic knowledge and lots of how to but also WHY he does the how to how he does it...if that made any sense at all 
You can rent them from Giddyupflix.com. his site is absolutely full of great info too, http://www.hoofrehab.com/ This is my newest favorite site to play on lately it is full of great info and tons of pictures! http://www.progressivehorse.co.uk/index.html |
||||
| alexwein |
Thanks for the site and the encouragement!! I was wondering about a dvd, so I'll queue that up on GiddyUpflix now. Off to check out the sites! |
||||
| jackspark |
Farrier and vet were both here today. My mare has a fine crack from the toe to within a quarter of an inch of the band. Vet dug is out and rasped it off. He said it was seedy toe, and I should shoe her. After reading this thread I'm not so sure. I have never had shoes on her and would not like to start. He said the same thing I've heard before "it'll take the pressure off" Her hooves are rolled at least by the description I read here. He also squirted copper tox and told me it wouldn't hurt to do it daily. Advice? I'll shoe if necessary, It'll break my farrier's heart to have to shoe her 
|
||||
| carefreegirl |
Jackspark, my horse had a similar crack to your horse.
BEFORE: LF Front view 12-08-08 
AFTER: LF Front view 10-12-09 
Crack went away with my own trimming, and no I am not an expert. I got help on this forum (you can check out my thread: http://itsaboutthehorse.myfastforum.org/ftopic45-0-asc-0.php ) and read Pete Ramey’s book “Making Natural Hoof Care Work for you”, and rented his DVD’s from Horseflix “Under the Horse” series (though that company is out of business but can rent from Giddyupflix still) Other then that I just experimented, and did the best that I could. I currently don’t know how his feet are doing as I haven’t seen him in about 2 months, but my brother says that he thinks they are improving even more (I taught him quickly before I left how to trim his feet for me) I will be seeing my boy though in about a week so I am really excited, and I will be posting pics again on my thread once I am back with him. Good luck with your horse. |
||||
| thelmanelle |
My horse has a couple of small cracks in her right front hoof. She had shoes when I got her and had been shoed by Brandon ? I forget the name...Anyways, we pulled them immediately as she had no heels on one diagonal and some heel on the other diagonal? Long toes? A thoroughbred. I have had her for since August 2009 and the bare hooves are nice except the small crack in the one front concerns my trainer.
I am not as worried since she seems to be totally sound and it does not effect her walk, trot or canter. She is able to do all her lateral movements. Her hooves shine and are kept clean. I see the pictures here and think...her crack is minimal. This is a very good thread. Thanks. |
||||
| calatar |
Shoes don't help cracks, period. Correct and balanced trimming do. IMHO cracks are resolved faster bare as you can rasp the toe weekly to "take the pressure off" (a SHOE will NOT do this). There is a time and place for shoes but they are not a catch all and in some situations (like this one) they are not the best option. Eclipse went from this:
to this:
And it is now completely gone (I haven't taken pictures in a while). |
||||
| thelmanelle |
My thing is in the 9 months , she is finely growing heel. My farrier does not seem as concerned with the crack as the fact she was standing on her no heels? The cracks are minimal and I seen them before in horses in my area.
She is not lame...just finally growing some heel. Slowly changing her, but leaving the heels alone. She had none. |
||||
| Newfman |
I here this upon occasion. It is a common saying up here in New England. Honestly though, I have never actually seen it. If you have a photo, I would really like to see what that looks like. When someone up here says their horse can't grow heel, it turns out that they have way too much heel and way too much toe and it is well out infront of where it should be. The tubules of the hoof wall should terminate at the ground. That is the part the horse should stand on. In horses that "can't grow heel" the tubules run forward i.e., "Underrun heels". In more severe cases, the tubules are lying parallel to the ground surface, so the horse is literally walking on the 'backs' of the heels as opposed to the bottoms. Then people wonder why the heels won't stand up. They can't. Therefore "they can't grow heel", except that they can, and are and it is a very bad situation. This is a real set up for navicular syndrome and sidebone. It is very difficult to straighten out, but needs to be delt with, frequently. Shod horses develop this quite readily, and it can take two forevers to correct, with a lot of trimming and care. I have also found that if you manage to get a horse out of this, they will go right back there with very little encouragement, so you must remain vigilant and care for your horses feet with great alacrity. From the solar view, if the heels are forward of the widest part of the frog, then there is too much heel, and it is collapsed and growing forward instead of downward. This is usually accompanied by some or all of the following; quarter flares, quarter cracks, long toes, toe cracks, toe first landings, mechanical founder, distal decent, arthritis, ringbone, side bone, navicular syndrome, white line disease, soreness, lameness, abscesses and on and on. . . The point is, a hoof that gets that far out of normal design confomation, is subject to be used improperly, and, like anything not used properly, will self destruct prematurely. If a horse actually could not grow heel, he would have developed a very negative palmar angle and appear just as the polar opposite of a club foot, I should think. I just have yet to see that, even on-line. So, not to be an alarmist, I just thought it would be a good idea that people understand that this isn't just a cosmetic issue, and the term has proven over and over to be a misnomer. |
||||
| thelmanelle |
Thanks...I'll try to get a picture. I tend to be a bit wary on photos after time with SHI/NetPosse.com, but will find a way of showing a picture. She is growing heels actually...it's just taking time and we are seeing a farrier every 6 weeks or less due to the facility where she is currently stalled and pasture boarded.
The owner/trainer is always looking at the hooves. So we are not hesitant to call the farrier for regular trimming. I did pull shoes off when I got her. My trainer hints at front shoes...but, she is moving right without them. She is growing the heel and we are keeping the toes trimmed. When she was first here, she angle was 55 degrees since we have very slowly taken her to 48 degrees. I do mean very slowly to keep her from having problems. I do hope that with it being diagonals, she is not naturally this way. Do you think with the slow changes of angle and heel growing, she might be okay? I will try and get pics... Thanks. |
||||
| Newfman |
You could check out www.Photobucket.com it may prove to be more friendly. I can't remember if we can post directly from our hard drives here or not. Some forums you can.
You got me there, I'm not sure what you mean.
Just based on our brief discussion here, I couldn't tell. You can't really tell what is going on inside the hoof by what is on the outside. You can get a general idea of bone position, and that is about it. Also, I have no history on the horse, or even its age, so I would just be tossing a 'hail mary'. Horses are incredible animals. They can overcome a lot. Returning the hoof to its natural shape is a big step. I don't deal much with exterior hoof angles much. My concern with hoof angles has more to do with the position of the coffin bone with respect to the hoof capsule and can only be really measured by x-ray. You can get an educated guess with carfull photos and measurments and intuition. But rads (radiographs) tell the true story. So, I would recommend proper barefoot trimming, good diet and tons of turn out. I'm a big fan of 24-7 turn out, and so are my horses. They have a large dirt paddock, which is usually very hard packed dirt. Mud season sucks though! If after that, your horse has issues with the feet, then I would recommend x-rays from a competent Veterinarian. Digital is preferred, but not always available. Dennis |
||||
| thelmanelle |
Dennis,
I appreciate your posts. I was looking at Summer yesterday and discussing this thread with my trainer. We have a lot of turn out time where she is...she loses weight at my place and will eat three meals a day there. So it benefited her to eat and put on weight. She was very thin. I looked at her back hooves and they look great. The right front is a little long and due for a trim at four-five weeks. Her left front is the one with the two cracks and long toe and slight heel in comparison to the others. So I will look into a possible separate photo bucket album for just hooves and things like that to share. Thanks |
||||
| Newfman |
I'll look forward to it.
D. |
||||
| thelmanelle |
Sorry so long...I live in the country and satellite....
new photobucket acct. Plus, poor lighting on pictures, so let me know if you need me to do some pictures differently or closer? The link: http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/Hooves/ The big concern: http://i970.photobucket.com/album...GYG2010HOOVES/Hooves/DSCN1551.jpg |
||||
| Newfman |
Well, the photos will do fine for now. I just got in from work and I'm pretty exhausted so I just gave them a cursory look. I will try to get more into it tomorrow. Just at a quick glance, the problem is with both feet. This is what is called Hi-Lo. You have two feet that need work in opposite directions, and both have excessive toe. We'll have to try to figure out where it comes from, so we will examine this further.
Right now, I need a martini, and a visit to my pillow. Long day. |
||||
| thelmanelle |
Take your time. My farrier will be here on Friday...but, it's been 9 months with no shoes. Sleep well. | ||||
| Nashama |
Does your filly always stand base narrow with the near fore turned in from above the knee? | ||||
| thelmanelle |
You are speaking of her left front? Yes.
She is 16 this year. Ran races at Tampa Bay Downs for a time? Not sure how long and then, was a preliminary Three Day Event horse. I got her 9 months ago and have been trying to help her with nutrition, weight gain, rain rot, etc. Plus, she was on all four heels at that time. My farrier is here this Friday. It will be 5 weeks. I plan to take pictures after the trim. He has been leaving the heels alone trying to help her. When I first got her and she had shoes, I was told by the previous owner that the natural farrier had put pads on her because her shoulders were not even. We pull the shoes and there were not pads and the shoes were the same. Thanks. |
||||
| Nashama |
Ah, right. Generally when they have the twist from the top of the leg you need a chiropractor willing to sort out the bones of the chest - sternum, scapula, thoracic vertebrae. Then the horse usually needs some muscle work so realign the muscles and muscle memory.
To judge it you need to assess where the twist is. Lower leg is often the hoof balance and/or conformation; upper leg is often thoracic vertebrae and sternum alignment. Shoeing using pads and wedges worsens the problems long term and masks it short term. Hope that's some help. |
||||
| thelmanelle |
Thank you. That is great help! Will be on the spot on this information. I really appreciate it.
|
||||
| Newfman |
As I think that we have hijacked someone else's thread and for ease of archive retrieval, we move this to a new thread? This isn't really a hoof crack issue anyhow, so it may be better to just start a new topic thread. | ||||
| thelmanelle |
I realized the same thing...sorry. It got interesting and turned from one thing to another. Good idea to move it. | ||||
| Nashama |
I dunno that it's irrelevant to the discussion - I have seen the kind of weight bearing the mare seems to have cause some real fun stuff, including abscessing, separation, white line problems, thrush and cracks, and that's just in my paddock.
Oh well, back in my box with Gismo. |
||||
| thelmanelle |
Oh dear! 
|
||||
| Nashama |
No need for 'oh dear'. I am not offended | ||||
| Newfman |
More often than not, distortional issues happen more while the horse is doing nothing, than when it is performing. The more the hoof wall is distorted, the more it succumbs to the various propblems that Nashama listed. The internal issues tend to be more related to moving and performing with hooves in poor condition or "outside of normal design" parameters.
I'm not sure I get the last two post thing. Have I already started pissing someone off? Lord now it doesn't take me long 
|