Driving Thread

thelmanelle · Driving Thread

Are we up to a ground and further driving thread?
I am game.

thelmanelle

I spent 3-4 days at a farm in Montana that basically uses Suffolks to mow, rake and bale hay....
Are you interested?

cynthia peterson

i'm ready, lay it on me sister!

jackspark

Bale me up, Scotty!

ElaineW

Hey I wanna do this too!
let's get started!

thelmanelle

Let me get them pics downloaded and we are on our way...beam me up , Scotty!

BTW, did I tell you I want to move to Montana...?I have never had a time where I was so in my element. I can back to our hotel room after 3 days and my face was such that my husband had to see what I had been doing....he loved it.

He thought it was better than fly fishing...y'all, he is a tobacco chewing, spitting man. He said that it was the best time he had ever had and we are going back again. To farm in Montana for vacation.....

Farmers from Georgia

I am so glad he loved it!
I'd go back now. Sell it all!

thelmanelle

I am still downloading, but maybe you can get a start on my dream life....

http://s970.photobucket.com/album...OOVES/2010Mt/?action=bulkuploader

thelmanelle

jackspark

Wow, thanks Suga! I was just on vacation in Montana and it didn't cost me a thing...........Priceless and very cool. It even attracted the interest on my hubby

cokey

thelmanelle

Cokey,
Thanks.

They were very nice horses. There is a story in one of the Draft Horse Magazines called The Ice Man Cometh about a Suffolk foul being born to a mare that was not suppose to be pregnant.

She had him near a stream in a bad storm. They saw something and ran and found him. Figure the timing and remembered the two studs breaking out one night.

Timing is everything, so they go Ice Man.

I met him. He's 8 months old now.
http://www.rockymountainrider.com/articles/0410_ice_man_cometh.htm

Then, they had Hope. Name because they were hoping her mother would live. She had retained placenta and died after three days. So Mr. Don had to feed her every two hours for a while. She is 3 years old and thinks he is the momma!

He loves them and cares for them. They work and he really is kind to them. It was a great experience.

thelmanelle

Here are some driving pictures of Bob and Belle Belgian for this driving thread.

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/2010DBAB/

This is the plow event, when I first got Bob and Belle.

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/2010JWPD/

Thankfully, they have gained weight, been vetted, trimmed every 5 weeks, went through a serious worming cycle. They were poor approx. 1500# at the most when I go t them. Now, they probably are staying at 2400#. They do not require 3 meals a day...one in the a.m. and pasture is enough.

They go out routinely for driving. We will go out tomorrow morning, weather permitting.

I learned in Montana how to harness better for my height and weight. Making it easier on my body. It was a big help to have someone show me a better way to make it lighter to handle. Nicer for my horses, too.

TrustMeNaturally

Great thread!! Driving is so much fun. Last winter, my sister and I did lots of zone 5 driving with Scout, our pony. So we got him to where he would pull us, if someone led him. Which was so much fun! And he pulled us on skis too, which was a blast! Here's a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzG-3eetvrw

Hopefully we can hook him up again this winter, and maybe I'll even get Eddie, my horse used to it too. He has a huge canter, and would be really fun to drive on skis!

Lea

thelmanelle

You were ski joring? I know I miss spelled that! But, I have seen Scott Bower and Nate Bower videos and pictures. Awesome. Love the music!

Edit: For the farm I keep my guys at a walk...I saw a ugly pass that...because of a trainer that shows. He took my horse too far too fast without my approval. Did not know my equipment. I am leading up to that story very soon. It's hard to face when you messed up. But, I did not know this guy did not know my harness.

I paid a bad price and had to back Flint away and re-start him. Not sure if he will ever be able to get over the accident. So I have to accept that and know that Bob and Belle do a great job.

Flint did do a wedding very well before the trainer and I found out ..he was not the trainer for us.

Pics:

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/2009WedPrep/

TrustMeNaturally

Thanks! Yeah, it was a lot of fun, hopefully we'll get a lot of snow this winter too.

Wow, thelmanelle, your Bob and Belle are beautiful! And Flint looks like such a sweetie. Do you have to do a lot of prep work before you hook them up? They look so calm and relaxed!

Lea

thelmanelle

Bob and Belle do really great. Belle showed up with a sore hoof this a.m., so we did not go out. I tried to get my farrier. But, the vet came and he did not dig..Good vet. She puncture her soft frog and was bleeding. So she is on antibiotics and got a tetanus shot and a few days off with some soaks.

So we washed windows and pressure washed the shack for the hay baling event coming up. Then, we made signs for directions and to ask people not to smoke or drive vehicles on the hay field...do not need a fire. Thank you!

I have a dressage lesson.

Tomorrow, I will try to start my story about the beginnings of my driving experience and some mistakes I learned by...and will continue to respect the situation and seriousness of driving and safety.

I will share my stories and you feel free to step in and share yours, too. But, experience good and bad is a wonderful teacher. I have learn that I will never know it all. that is the wisest piece of advice given to me by a gentleman from a plow club...don't ever think you know it all.

Sometimes, you think things are going great and something tells you it is not...that is the time to stop. I learned a lesson the hard way. Will share triumphs and failures.

Have a great day!

thelmanelle

One thing, before I tell the stories....I was asked to honor a wedding with Bob and Belle in the future by one of my teachers. So it looks as though we will do that at my dear friend's wedding. He wanted a price. I said no. We do it as a gift for him and his bride. I am honored.

This has made my day, plus I am finding a home for 4 Suffolk Punch horses whose owner died recently. Someone who appreciates the breed and it's rarity.

I got to talk to my Montana farmer about them and he referred me to a man looking to buy such a wonderful breed.

So I will try to start my story...
on driving.

thelmanelle

I got interested in farming with my horses. Flint was my levels horse, so I began ground driving him after a lesson with a L-3 former faculty member of pnh. I took one lesson from that person and basically that was it. It was hard to get lessons, so I searched and found two plow clubs. In addition, I found a local trainer that trained horses to the buggy for shows.

I already had ordered a harness with collar. Everything fit. I was ground driving Flint in the collar and will assistance of a friend, we made a sled to pull behind him on the grass in my arena.

Later, we tried to plow with him; but being a SSH, he was a bit fast for the plow.

So he went to a local trainer for training on the buggy and his harness equipment went with him. I would go see him and ride. Things went well. We were preparing him a wedding in which he pulled the Vis-a-Vis Carriage in a 4 hour reception with the Central Park theme.

We practiced many times in a variety of places and all went well. The folks who owned the carriage told my trainer not to allow Flint to trot because he would be pulling for along time in the wedding and he needed to just walk nice and slow. Have breaks, but really plow him to build muscle for the event.

That worked great.

What I did not know was when I was not around, the trainer was using a show breast harness and not my working collar harness. So He became unfamiliar with the harness and how to put it on my horse.

Fortunately, the wedding was a success and no harm was done. But, I was unaware that he was not using my equipment when I was not around.

This leads to another couple of stories, that has made me since decide never to allow my horse to be trained out of my site.

Summer is at a facility I see the trainer every day practically and so do my friends. But, this was different. I always learn to question. If my inner self starts asking, something is going on. And it's not right.

More later.

thelmanelle

After the wedding went so well, we decided to go to an auction and by a wagonette for Flint to pull. Very nice Canadian wheels, shocks, hydraulic brakes...later, we added lights and a battery.

Again, Flint had not yet pulled the wagon, the date was arranged for him to pull it. But, we were asked to do a birthday party at Christmas and pull Santa down the lane.

I was not comfortable with this since he had never been on this wagon. Also, other people pulled and hitched the Vis-a-Vis at the wedding. A driver with 35 years experience drove. Another man helped people on and off and I tended to Flint for safety reasons. So the wedding was a safe environment.

But, here we were in a new place, new wagon, 31 degree weather, cold morning, new horses everywhere, vehicles coming up and down the lane. Five people rushed at Flint and me to harness. I tried to get them to back away. No luck. Then, they hitched the wagon to him. I was not sure it was right.

I thought the trainer knew the wagon...he had done shows. He tried to trot Flint off in the cool weather...bad idea. I told him only a walk. The wagon slammed Flint in the rear. I asked again to stay at a walk.

The trainer took us between two narrow electric fences with 5 vehicles coming up the driveway. Flint began to buck and rear up and ran through the electric fence.

I jumped off and got to Flint. We re- arranged his harness. I asked the trainer for us to stop. he felt it was okay after we fixed the harness and wagon. We cut the electric off and cut the fence to get through.

I made him keep Flint at a walk and away form the fence. We had a man sit with Santa. I forced the wagon to stay at a walk. We got Santa safely to at least 100 or more people on a porch with 60 or more cars parked.

Then, we left to go calmly drive around. The trainer got back to a trot. i told him it was not a good idea and to please keep my horse at a walk. He, then, put him back between the electric fence where the first incident occurred. A diesel truck came behind us and I could tell Flint was getting uptight. I got off the wagon to ask the trainer to move away while I spoke to the people in the truck.

I looked to my right and Flint was rearing and bucking and running and trainer fell off. Flint ran wide open with my wagon behind him down a big culvert 1/3 mile towards my trailer. He did not stop. Ran to the cars and someone from the house stopped him.

We called telling people to stay in the house for safety. He did not hit a single car. We striped his harness off him. I let him graze. he was not hurt. I was shaking and scared. I put him on the trailer and left. I have not put him to the wagon since.

I have ground driven him. But, I tried to send him to another trainer highly recommended by friends. The guy ended up being a drug addict due to a motorcycle wreck. He forgot I paid him and wanted more money. Threatened to take Flint to a sell, etc. So I went and picked him up.

I don't let my horses go to trainers anymore. The trainer must come to my place. That was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

I ride Flint...but, he will probably not be a wagon horse.

So now you know something so good that you worked so long and hard on and go bad when the trainer is not honest. You think they are....hard lesson to learn.

Everything is not always what it seems. I could have lost Flint. We could have hurt someone. Fortunately, I only had to repair a new wagon.

thelmanelle

Please add to this driving thread if you have had experience. I do not want it to be just about me and my situation.

Thanks. Learning curve applies.

merle

I'm very glad that Flint, you and the public made it through the accident unharmed. I have a great deal of respect for driving, so much can go wrong so quickly. People have much more control from the horses back then from a wagon, especially a wagon, cart...with shafts. The shafts, by keeping the horse straight, really empower the horse.

Grrrr, you must have been really mad at the trainers - horses are such wonderful creatures how come it is so hard to find a trainer worthy of interacting with horses?

Here is a driving story for you. About 6 or 7 years ago I had a great mule named Ada. Ada was out of a walking horse, she was leggy and beautiful. She had been started driving as a two year old and had a good bit of experience (farm equipment, wagon trains, single, triple....). I bought her from a friend who had her from the time she was a yearling. So I had known her for a couple of years, she was four when I bought her.

One day I hitched her to the forecart and headed down the road. I drove about a mile then turned on a dirt road that cut through about 1000 acres of woods and pastures. While on the dirt road I was going up a hill with a fence on the right and a steep drop off on the left into a hay field. The hay was about 2 1/2 feet tall. Up ahead I could see vultures swarming, flying over head, swooping into the grass, and jumping around in the grass. So here I am with no where to go but straight ahead into the vultures. Ada got big, but I talked her through it - and got past that spot. I was really proud of myself for being able to handle that. We drove around for a couple hours then headed back to the house. We passed the spot that had the vultures, it was all quite.

About 1/4 mile from the house we were going up a hill when Ada looked off to the right. The neighbor had a pasture with goats and a few kids. The kids were bouncing and playing. I thought, silly mule, you passed the vultures the goats are nothing. Problem is that Ada thought the goats were really some thing to worry about. I did nothing to address her worries and Ada SPUN AROUND AND GALLOPED OFF with me in the cart behind her. She ran a little ways, slammed on the brakes, and BUCKED, BUCKED, BUCKED. Thank god for design of the forecart, the bars in the front prevented me from being thrown forward when she stopped. If I had been tossed forward I would have been between her and the cart. She would have kicked the snout out of me. BTW - I will NEVER ride in a cart without the guards on it.

When Ada stopped bucking she took off again, but this time at a trot. Even though it was a trot I could not stop her. I was praying that when we got to the dirt rode that I could turn her. Otherwise we were headed toward a busy rode. I was able to turn her and got her on the 1,000 acres - I drove her for miles and miles until she was begging to stop. Then we drove some more, I knew I had to get her past the goats to get home and wanted a mule that was really willing to listen to me. Finally we headed back again. This time I acknowledged her concern about the goats and helped her past them.

bespotted

I'll add to the driving thread as that has become my passion for the past 12 years or so. I love to be able to share my horse with others and driving can be so exhilarating, or it can be a walk in the park. It takes some training and alot of trust between horse & driver to do it well and safely.
I have had a few accidents and a few years ago one wreck sent me to the ER. Nothing was broken, but I lost my confidence around my horses since it happened so unexpectedly. Then I went to a great trainer for a year and drove many other horses, learned so many things I never knew. I was able to overcome my fear with knowledge. Now I do more driving competitions and still train my own horses, and I feel better that I am doing things safer now.
You can see my horses and driving events at my photo site here. I do horse photography whereve I go, I cant help myself.

http://community.webshots.com/user/bespotted/profile

Latina Raville
Laurens SC

Soon to be some sort of apple... Golden?

thelmanelle

Merle,
Thanks for sharing that. Yes, you are right things can go wrong so quickly and it is very important to be respected. Anything can happen in a moment's notice.

Bespotted,
I loved your pictures and have to spend more time viewing them. Competition Driving I have seen on RFD-TV. I, even, met a lady who does acupuncture on horses that competes in driving at the dressage barn once.

I think we learn so much from them and reading and watching others, also. I know from what I have experienced how not to choose a trainer.

I have a young lady who helps us keep the horses, etc. when we are gone and I am seriously talking with her about the two of us working together with the Belgians. She is willing and I need a second pair of hands and eyes. So she can come to the hay baling event and see if she is really game for this type of experience.

I like two people when I am going out. I want to be smart about it.

thelmanelle

So as the world turns, I was trying to decide what to do about the driving desire in me and Flint. I went to a plow field day and took Flint to ride in my saddle around the plowing, be it a ground plow or a riding plow.

While there, I was parked next to a truck with a trailer and no horses? Just two sad people watching. I could feel their despair. I brushed Flint and asked them about their horses. They just said that they left them home this time. End of conversation. Still sad faces and feelings.

As I continued grooming Flint in preparation to ride, I had three young boys walk pass me with one screaming at me, "I do not want to see another brush!" I laughed!

Apparently, all the horses and mules share one brush and I was grooming the way I do at the dressage barn...

It was hilarious!

I think the man and his wife watched me care for Flint, feed, water and hay him. Talk to him, ride him, etc. Not let just anyone around him. Not leave him unattended for long periods of time. Not out of my eye sight and I slept in my truck to be right there with him in the horse trailer. It was a cooler time of year.

So the next day, they left before breakfast after having spoken with a friend.

Later, in the day I was getting ready to go and the friend spoke to me about the man's two Belgians and explained he had fallen on hard times, could no longer feed them, they were on a dirt lot, nothing to eat. He thought I could get them both for a good price as they were headed for an auction and basically a matching pair with harnesses.

So I said, "Let me see them."

So they came, underweight, but not severe. Hooves needed work. Needed food, vet care, worming,etc. You get the picture. Not been groomed...Put on the harnesses and on the wagon immediately. They did everything perfect.

First, an experienced driver took them and showed me the ropes and then, I drove my first team, Bob and Belle.

Then, it was price time. The harnesses were sad! The horses were poor. He wanted much more than I could do, so I walked away. Other plow boys talked with him and explained the market and told him he'd be lucky to get $800. with harnesses art an auction for the pair. But, they gave more in cash to hold them while I called and asked hubby if I could buy 2 Belgians...

We had a big discussion about did I pray about it and sometimes intense...I said, "I did not call to argue. I will be happy to leave them. There are 5 people in line and the horses are already paid for in cash by someone else...I am just first in line. If the answer is no, I will walk away! And I will be happy. I just came to ride Flint. Not to buy horses."

He told me to put them on the trailer.

So I drove home nervous and he met me to see the new beauties and helped me get them safely to the paddock area.

Later, I was offered another home for them. he said, "No way! They are too beautiful!" They are his horses, now!

I just drive them....feed them, etc.

They were 1500# when I got them. Now, they are about 2400# 4 months later. They have been trimmed at least four times and do well. Learning to like grooming. The are truly gentle giants.

thelmanelle

merle

I love the story of you came across Bob and Bella - what a happy ending.

A dear friend of mine, he taught me about driving and plowing, was diagnosed with brain cancer a few years ago. He had taught me to harness, to hitch and to drive. He was a great mentor and a once in a life time friend. His brain cancer was treated with full brain radiation. The side effects were memory problems. Once I realized what was happening, I tried to always be around when he harnessed and hitched. I'd find him putting the long rein on the outside instead of crossing it through the inside to the opposite horse.

A second set of eyes and hands is wonderful to have.

thelmanelle

Merle,
I am hands on and I read articles in The Draft Horse Magazine. I do love it!

Anyhoo, I found an article about the double reins and keeping the buckle from getting caught in the circle that holds your lines from sliding off the spider above the breeching.

They call it a cheater strap for the lines. I call it a safety strap to keep the lines from falling off the hips.

Mr. Don used them in Montana. So I showed him the article because I could understand the importance of the idea. I just could not get the picture in my head. He got a ring, maybe two inch diameter and slid it over the double line side to keep the buckle form sliding past the ring on the cheater strap.

Another safety feature that is cheap but important.

We are looking at the weather and may have to cancel the hay event. I can't let folks and their mules and draft horses get stuff in a lightening storm.

So we are at a halt. If I cut a field, we are to get rain till next Thursday. People will start coming in on Wednesday. It gets pretty nasty when the weather is bad.

It takes about four days for the hay to cure to bale. We wanted hay on the ground to show, teadding, raking, baling, loading and stacking in one field and then, show mowing across the fence , so people could watch it from both sides.

Oh well! it is either hot or rain here when it is haying time!

thelmanelle

merle

thelmanelle

I have another Steve Bowers book and all his DVDs and video, but not that book...I need to get that one and Lynn Miller's hay baling book...I read some of it at Mr. Don's.

Yes, the buckles can get caught and it needs to be prevented before it is an accident.

Eek!

I agree!

I love the stories, because you learn from them what not to do and what to do. Plus, the calmness of your voice with your team is so very important.

When in Montana, Miss Kitty, a Suffolk Punch Mule cross, smelled a bear and we had to talk her down to calm her. The other two horses Punch and Hope were okay. But, Miss Kitty spooked about the areas that bears had been around the farm, it being so close to Yellowstone.

Then, we had the time on the no. o mower when a deer was near us. We had to wait and see just what he was going to do. We had Miss Kitty and Hope on the mower and waited patiently for the deer to decide to stay at bay in the brush. I got pics of his head in my Montana pics I post on this thread.

I enjoy reading and learning from experience and the books and magazines. But, I sometimes have to talk it out to really understand some of the information...like the line safety issue. Very important.

thelmanelle

One thing, we lost a member of our plow club. In fact, four this year. You try hard to learn. They know so much. This gentleman had 4 Suffolk Punch Horses are registered, three geldings and one a stallion. The widow wanted them a good home.

By meeting Mr. Don , we were able to find them a good home in Virginia. A man was looking for a team. That was a blessing!

merle

thelmanelle

Miss Kitty is in my Montana pics...I'll look her up later weather permitting...

She looks a lot like your Avatar, big as a Suffolk Punch...just color of a dark Mammoth Mule. Sweetie. They had three mules and several gelding, two stallions and several brood mares at B Bar Ranch.

I met Amos, Miss Kitty, Punch and Hope when we worked and drove the fields.

thelmanelle

Merle,
I got a call today from a man wanting to come ..after we had canceled the event because it's not a good time to cut hay here. He saw our event in Rural Heritage... I did not put it there. Apparently, one of my plow club members did. I had to go online and cancel the event.
They are very prompt and did it right away. thank goodness!

Miss Kitty for you:

Harnessed and ready to go....

thelmanelle

Btw, I just met my second pair of eyes and he is just as experienced as the last set. Thank goodness. Plus, I told him, I expect to harness up with him not sit by and watch him do it or I lose my technique I learned.

His mom wants me to do their daughter's wedding. I always do that as a gift.

Same with the gentleman who helped me before...he is getting married and I will not and can not charge for it.

It my pleasure and gift.

But, I do require that we never allow them to go past a walk. That is my rule for safety. Plus, a second driver must be with me always.

So any more driving stories?

Check out Hitchmasters on YouTube for some awesome farming and driving videos.

merle

thelmanelle

thelmanelle

Merle,
I am sure Miss Kitty would say Thank You!

She is a sweetie.

thelmanelle

Latina,
I saw in one pic the bucking strap attached to the traces (horse) aka tugs (draft horse). So the bucking strap is attached to traces aka tugs?

I was told that they were attached to the shafts on a single horse and that you could not use a bucking strap on a team....

Thanks.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Sonya, you know every time I read the tittle of this thread, I crack up. "Driving Thread" reminds me so much of "Pushing rope," another impossible move.

Just thought you'd like to know. LOL

I am toying with the idea of turning Buddy into a driving horse. We'll see how the next few months go, but if they continue badly, rather then get hurt or hurt him, I may just teach him to pull. He is ground driving very well now.

thelmanelle

Carol,
That is great. You just sort of see something and dream it. Go for it slowly. Always be open to other peoples' mistakes and teachings, so much to learn. I would love to hear about you driving.

Ground driving is driving...so it's still a part of this thread.

Latina,

I looked more at your photos. I love the outfits. How handsome you all look! Very cool!

Edit to say: I read where Latina taught herself with her horse very slowly. Interesting article if you go to her photos.

bespotted

thelmanelle,

Sure, what would you like to know?
Besides how we got this photo....

I am not sure which photo you are looking at with a anti-kicking strap. I had one on Fancy, my young mare and cart for a while, but it is not as much use with a 4 wheel vehicle with low trace attachment. I do have a keeper strap from the breeching to the trace which keeps the traces from getting too low where he could step over them in a tight turn.

I have a 16ft steel stock goose neck trailer and put the carriage in front 8ft section with harness in a tote on wheels, hay, water, buckets, etc... First aid kits and extra stuff goes in the nose section. Horse goes in the back 8x6ft section tied near the hay bag in the corner. He has plenty of room and I like the open sides for air circulation except when it rains. We are working on putting Plexiglas sliding panels in the slots for winter and rain. I always put a fly mask on him since stuff flys around when going down the road.
This set up works great for me and I use a F150 with tow package and bigger V8 engine (same as the F250) since it is also for driving to work everyday.
I have seen others with bigger rigs and trailers. Some folks still need a second trailer for the carriage or wagons. Some pull the horse trailer with an RV and some have living quarters in the trailer. A friend of ours has a flat bed truck and hauls a bumper pull trailer-- that might work for you. They have folding ramps and a electric winch that pulls the carriage up on the flat bed and ratchet tie it down.
I saw a mule team harnessed and hitched to a wagon back out of the trailer on a trail ride one day. I thought that was unsafe to travel with them hitched in the trailer.

We are heading to a carriage club practice day tomorrow. My new gelding will do his first driven dressage test to get ready for his first show Sept 24th.

You can also see the ADS website for more info, rules of competitions, classifieds, and free webinars.
http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/

Happy driving,

Latina

thelmanelle

Back later for more. Thanks!

Glad you are doing driving dressage? Am I right?

merle

The majority of the plow folks around here will do one of two things when hauling drafts and wagons. Some will guy have HUGE stock trailers with a middle divider. The wagon/plow... goes in the front, close the divider then load the horses or mules. Others will have a horse trailer with a hitch. The truck is connected to the horse trailer and the wagon is connected to the horse trailer - three in line - truck, horse trailer, wagon. Just don't plan on backing up!

bespotted

Yep, we do driven dressage as well as drive down the trails and a few pleasure show classes each year just for exposure and to get dressed up once in a while.
Yesterday our club had a practice day where a judge gave us feedback and tips and let us re do parts of the pattern to improve. My friend got photos & video for me to study. It was only his second new place I've taken him to and he did super in the dressage ring.

When we were warming up, something spooked him and he tried to bolt. I was glad to have a more experienced friend on the carriage who jumped off and headed him when he was scared. He got 3-4 canter strides before I stopped him. He calmed down pretty quickly and I gave him a job to do for 15 minutes trotting around barrels, trees, changing directions, etc... Then I bravely made him go back through the area he spooked and had other drivers pass us both ways. I told him, "see? Its all fine and we all will get through this." Good for both of our confidence levels. We came to the conclusion it was another horse passing very close with the driver whipping and yelling just as my whip hit a tree branch on the opposite side and my horse assumed he was in trouble and needed to get out of there fast.
So we are going back to ground driving and desensitizing to noises. He needs to listen only to my voice so he knows for sure what commands are for him. I am teaching him two cues together- voice and rein pressure. If I just say walk, he shouldn't do it unless I have contact on the bit. First bit pressure, then the verbal command. If he doesn't obey, then a tap with the whip. But never whip first. Cracking whips and noises should not mean anything to him. We still have alot more trust to build in each other, but he is really looking to me more for guidance and direction.
This is for everyone's safety as well as practice for a pleasure show where there could be from 2-15 carriages in the ring at the same time Sept 24-26th. I chose classes with less than 6 entries for his first time, but if he's not more comfortable with noises by then, I wont show him in those. He can watch from outside the ring in hand. We will still do dressage since we are alone in the ring, and cones obstacles as well.

Happy Driving!

Latina & Finnegan

thelmanelle

Merle,
I saw one plow guy drive his truck with four huge draft horses (well-fed)on a trailer, the big wagon and a riding plowing with a pole for a team....it was very long...four in tow. I do not know how he did not get a ticket.

I had to take pictures of that...

thelmanelle

Latina,
That is so cool! I love it that you are doing that. I hope you will share more about your events. I may just have to see one!

One of your pictures showed an article of a man showing a bucking strap and it looked like a magazine feature. He may have done a clinic at one of your events?

I was always under the impression the bucking strap is to the shaft for the single horse.

Thanks for explaining the traces. BTW, your shafts are shorter, too. Same reason?

I like the Canadian wheels and the shocks.

We tomorrow weather permitting we go out for a ride. We are getting ready to do a 9/11 event. We were asked to bring the Belgians for a special event.

Merle,
I got rings for the conways on the lines, but the bucket is different. i may have to go with your duct tape!

thelmanelle

Here's my YouTube Channel, I think...

http://www.youtube.com/user/PinkBelle2006?feature=mhum#p/a

Maybe, I got it right...

Yes_But_Neigh

merle

The following link explains what a buck or kick strap is for a buggy horse.

http://axwoodlibrary.com/using-the-kicking-strap/

I use one because it makes a lot of sense to be proactive. I use a soft cotton rope. One end of the rope is tied to the shaft the other goes through the ring at the top of the breeching and then down to the other shaft. It works well and I've had the opportunity to test it!!!

bespotted

Yes_But_Neigh,

The bucking strap for driving is actually an anti-bucking or anti-kicking strap. Not the same as in western or rodeo.
It is a strap the goes over the horse's hips and attaches to the shafts for a single horse pulling a cart or carriage. If the horse tries to raise its hind end to kick or buck, it will have to lift the weight of the hwole vehicle and its contents. It is to deter them from doing so. It should be pretty tight to do so.
Many folks will use these with green horses or flighty ones to prevent a kick or buck. Even a well trained horse could react to a bee sting or spook unexpectedly.
If a driving horse kicks and gets one leg over the shaft it could panic more and break the shaft or the horses leg (depending if the shaft is steel or wood) so we like to take precautions when we can.

Some of my photos are from the National Drive, and organized annual event at the KY horse park where we have clinics and seminars for 10 days in October. (This year it has moved to Indiana since the WEG is at KY horse park then.) Olaf Nyby from Poland gave a good seminar about this safety equipment as well as protective vests and hard hats. Note in the first photo the strap has not been attached to the shaft yet.
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2618106350038450916OcvLYp

Latina

thelmanelle

Bucking Strap is safety for horse and human.

thelmanelle

This morning was cooler, so we took the Belgians out for a good two hours or more. Having been in Montana and shown how to change the way I harnessed sure helped. It was better.
I drove the whole time and was more confident since getting back from the training at B Bar Ranch under Mr. Don. They did so good. We went through ditches, high grass, past goats, running horses and horrible sounding vehicles. I was a good test day.

I hope to drive them at a field trial in the wagon. That would be a good experience.

Than, I rode Flint for and hour after lunch.

Been busy doing laundry and house chores.

Time to feed and clean a stall.

Looks like some rain later.

thelmanelle

Latina,
Thanks, that was the exact article. Thank you for clarifying! It was the traces/tugs that were secured for your event....quick turning.

Again, the shafts on your wagons are shorter...for quicker turns as well?

I love driving , so I get interested in all aspects.

Even, if I want to go very slow down a nice dirt road...

Again, the outfits are lovely.

bespotted

Yes, our shafts are shorter for easier turns when going cross country and through obstacles. This is a vehicle made for marathon driving, but still comfortable for going down the road and ring work also. It has several sets of springs underneath and breaks on the rear wheels.
I also have quick release loops that hold the shaft ends in place and they do make some extra pads that can go on the ends for tight turns. This horse is still green, so we are not asking him to turn sharp and fast yet. The quick release metal shackles have a small zipper pull on them that you pull in an emergancy to get the horse out of the carriage quickly.

Happy Driving,

Latina

Official member of the bad apple society 8-31-10

thelmanelle

I need to see a pic of the quick release on the shafts, please?

Today, on our team the ring on my lines was dropping to my left horse, Belle's bit strap. We used duct tape to solve the problem, temporarily....but, I need to get something weighted in the middle to weight the ring and keep it centered between the team.

We had to stop three times to correct it. My team is very well behaved, but if it was a bad situation, not good.

bespotted

This is what my quick release shaft loops look like. Mine came with the harness and were not this exspensive, but these are good photos.
http://www.coachmansdelight.com/P...;k=22&sku=PART2-5232&all=

And here are the quick release snap shackels we have where the traces attatch to the buggy and also where the breeching attatches.
http://www.coachmansdelight.com/P...p;k=18&sku=HARD3-502&all=

With these 3 quick relases, I can get him out of the buggy in a few seconds. If the horse fell or is in a panic and needs to get out. Also for quicker harnessing and safety. The synthitic harness is really hard to cut if you needed to get it off in a hurry and the metal carriage is not very forgiving if it flips or pins the horse.

Where is the ring on your team lines?
I have only driven a pair twice and the lines buckled into the bits. I was holding 4 sets of leather.

Latina

thelmanelle

I use the same safety release on my tugs that you call shackle release.

The ring is between the team on the short line and I only have two line. The long lines go to the outside and the short lines go to the inside.

I see pictures of the short lines with a ring with a decoration....maybe that weight help keep the ring from sliding down to the buckle?

Worth the try, duct tape is always a good thing!

thelmanelle

Can you see the ring on the lines between the two drafts?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rur...age-Magazine/142387108155?v=wall#!/photo.php?pid=4515590&id=142387108155&ref=fbx_album

It's in the profile album , the 2nd photo down form the start. Two Belgians with two men driving the team.

I think I know what I did wrong with the ring yesterday...it needs to be in the middle of the X on the two long lines.

bespotted

I see it. Neat. is it attatched or both lines just cross through it?
That is pretty different style of driving than I am used to, although we do have plow days in our driving club. A retired surgeon has Brabant Belgians and a group comes each yeat to help him plow his feilds.
Suffolk Punch, mules, and drafts of all types plus some light horses usually show up. I'll have to find those photos.

Happy Driving,

Latina

thelmanelle

We have a plow boy that owns four Brabant Belgians that comes down from South Carolina. He gets his picture in Rural Heritage and Draft Horse Magazines often at events.

They are twice the size of my American Belgians!

It's a big hoof! I was to do an avatar. I guess I'll go read up on it?

I was told today the 9/11 event is to start going weekly to a local city park and take underprivileged children for a wagon ride. My church made a movie and a scene was in the neighborhood.
To keep the kids quiet during the scenes, they planned activities. They got close to the families and continued the relationship after the movie.

So they wanted to add some other activities to make it even more interesting.

I need to go check the grounds for broken glass and footing before I take my team. So some folks are going to walk it with me to check the safety for footing.

I have been looking for a regular outing for them. I do like kids!

merle

thelmanelle

I know about the stallion...I wasn't going to mention him. I cried when I read the article. Mr. Don knew him , too. Even, in Montana.
Tommy Scott? Very nice man!

I just talk to hubby and with the glass and the area...he says no to taking the horses and wagon there.

I spoke to a plow boy and he said the same thing that people will mess with your horses and it can be a dangerous situation.

So it looks like a no.

But, I was offered to take them to help with raking hay tomorrow. We may do that.

merle

I'm sure it is the same person, but I thought his last name was Flowers. The draft world is pretty small, I'm not surprised Mr. Don knows Tommy.

Sorry to hear about the no go on the 9/11 event - safety first is a good motto.

Have fun with the hay. I've racked hay with horses and mules, that was fun, straight forward and pretty easy. However when I attempted to cut hay with the mule drawn mower, it was not pretty. The mower was designed for a man - bigger and stronger than me! I could not reach the petals and was not strong enough to step on the pedal to make the mower arm lift. I even tried STANDING on the pedal and still could not life the mower. It is the only horse drawn activity that I can not do.

thelmanelle

Merle,
We are going!

I am so excited. I understand about the mower. In fact, I would not touch Mr. Don's baler for the same reason. I was able to use the grass cutting mower with a team of two.

I can't believe my luck that we are actually working hay tomorrow with Bob and Belle....It is a yes!

merle

thelmanelle

Good news! Bob and Belle did awesome on the rake. They were like we have always done this!

Now, my learning curve is lowering the tines to pick up the hay and row it. Plus, learning curve two, watching where the horses are going to get the hay raked over to the row correctly for the baler.

So much to learn between horses and equipment. But, we stayed and did the entire field.

Thank you Carol for fixing my avatar!

It was a great day and we are still on for 9/11 but due to the location and glass, etc. our situation had been changed and so we are trying to do a weekly wagon ride for kids and families at the same place we did the 4th of July event.

So we are eventually hoping to bus the kids from that neighbor to our park and let them once a week enjoy the wagon, too.

So it is a win-win situation.

Bob and Belle are tired and desire a night of rest. But, now they do not need to gain weight....they need to be working horses or they will founder as I hardly feed them much and they have done well on just grazing...really well!

Exercise time!

thelmanelle

Hey,
Here's the link to today's learning session for me and yes, my hands were bad! Arms stretch out too far....learning curve...

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/Rake2010/

But, we had a great day!

PasoBaby_CarolU

thelmanelle

They were good and I saw Belle resting this a.m. They were ready for their oats. They get such a small amount as it is. Wow! Between that and the pasture...10 acres with 6 horses? They are healthy.
But, we have work to do and play!

I am doing my avatar as a big pic...hoping I did not go too big. If so, I will correct it.

One more favorite picture:

Not often you get to drive a nice team of three. This was in Montana and the horses were Punch, Hope and Miss Kitty the mule. Suffolk Punch Horses and a Suffolk Punch Mule. Very nice team.

I also, drove when Amos was on but he was taller. Punch belongs to Mr. Don.

Yesterday took me back to this.

The hay we raked was alfalfa. Our hay is tift 85 and Coastal Bermuda drought resistant hay. I am used to how it looks and the green in the alfalfa was very hard to me to see to rake...another learning curve is the crop. But, it was fun.

In Montana, the hay was a meadow mix, but looked more like our hay.

I need to get harnesses clean today and back inside due to humidity.

thelmanelle

This was our hay rake day...

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/Rake2010/

Today , we took the wagon out and picked up neighbors off from work and gave them rides.
I think Bob and Belle were trying to decide just how must energy to putout after the hay raking day. That was a big day, but they did so good!

I hope for us to buy a cart for me to tead and row our hay with them to save on fuel.

I'd like to be able to buy a mower and a old baler, once I safely learn how to use them.

But, I could do the cart the with the teader and rake first. Learning curve.

thelmanelle

Maintenance:

The Wagon...

You grease your bearings frequently and your fifth wheel.

Check all nuts to make sure secure.

Air in tires, if Canadians wheels.

Wash to clean dirt off.

I keep a tool box with me.

Also, Lights, Hydraulic brakes, brake fluid, etc.

Is your harness okay and do you have back-up repair?

Extra, snaps, duct tape, o-rings, d- rings, conway buckles, chains, double ended snaps. Wrenches, screwdrivers, tools for repair time?

Other ideas?

Love to hear yours.

Thanks.

bespotted · Carriage club show NC Sept 24-26

Carolina Carriage Club 14th annual driving dressage and pleasure show
at Harmon Feild in Columbus NC will be held Sept 24-26th.

Driven dressage classes take place on Friday.
Pleasure classes and obstacles Sat-Sun. Divisions from Mini to Draft, timed obstacles and skill tests as well. Antique to marathon type vehicles, something to see for everyone, free admission, and food available on the grounds.

http://www.carolinacarriage.org/
see special events tab

Show Organizer Karen Payne 864/480-9701
Email Kpayne88@hotmail.com if you have questions...

We'll be there with my green horse at his first show, come on by and see what fun carriage driving can be!

Latina

thelmanelle

The link did not work.

But, it would be great to see.

I did a search for the site...

http://www.carolinacarriage.org/

thelmanelle

Interesting, same addy yet, I had to search it to see it. Could not get it from your link?

bespotted

hmmm,
I dont know why the link didnt work.
I cut & pasted it in the message body.

We are excited to take Finnegan to his first driving horse show.
I've been following the Clinton Anderson method and the pushy dominant gelding has really come around. Now he is very willing and tries to do what I ask instead of trying to do his own thing.

Latina

thelmanelle

We are finishing up on some hay and I have got to get the fall garden started...I wonder if honey would like to do a road trip. This would be very interesting to him.

He needs to take some time and learn to relax. He is starting to see that...we might just show up?

I have a house sitter and a back -up.

Plus, I have to send my harnesses back as I discovered the harness maker did not use all stainless steel, which I paid for on the harnesses and keep them inside and clean. The inside next to the horse is chrome and corroding. These are fairly new harnesses, so I will send them back after we get the hames off the harnesses. Even, the bridle have to be corrected.

Fortunately, my SSH, Flint has a harness that will fit just one of them. So the plan is to work one at a time and Flint while waiting for the harnesses to be repaired with stainless steel as ordered.

I sure hate being without them. But, they are paying the S & H. Their mistake.

thelmanelle

Harnesses have been sent back for repair for stainless steel, since I paid for that!

I am seriously think of riding the Belgians...not sure if they have ever been ridden, so might take it really slow. Belle got really excited one morning when she thought she might have to pull the wagon and went bucking and racing out of the paddock...

...I do not need that! Not going there...slow!

We are talking 2400# of buck! No thank you! I sure hope the harnesses get fixed soon as they are doing so good and I have some events. May try driving them in Flint Harness alone. His harness fitted them.

I have the shaft to drive single.

thelmanelle

Big conversation with hubby on the menu tonight....prayers needed.

A dear friend is dying of cancer and he wishes for me to have his 4 year old Belgian mare that rides, single plows, single drives and double teams, too. I know him. He is honest and he does not want her to go to slaughter. She will not as another man will take her if I do not.

So I just have to hope hubby will let me go get her tomorrow. I have the harness for Flint and she is smaller than Belle and Bob, so it will fit her. Wow! Life hits you fast.

I am becoming the Belgian Plow/Work Horse Rescue Farm. Interesting.

Keep them working so they don't founder and share the knowledge!

I hope he wants her. She has a long mane and tail just like Bob and Belle . That's great! I don't even know her name.

Wish me luck and say a prayer.

thelmanelle

Okay! I get the horse. Her name is Dolly...naturally from Tennessee. Up in north Ga. Headed to get her soon!

thelmanelle

This is Dolly on day 7...yesterday. Trying to get my computer straight with the anti-virus. Upgrades are a pain, sometimes....

But, just to let you know she has gone through the vet, all her worming , is coggins negative and had her trim and is now, safely in the pasture with the other horses.

http://s970.photobucket.com/home/AGYG2010HOOVES

I wanted to get these photos as she has gained weight and I wanted her previous owner to see her as he is dying of cancer and she was his favorite. I wanted to show him I would give her a good home. She is trained to single and double pull, plow and ride. She can really move when she needs to in the pasture. She has a sweet nature about her...just like Mr. Calvin, the man who owned her. I appreciate that I was chosen for her.

Bob and Belle's harnesses are back and we have been hitting the dirt roads.

I did go to a plow day event and I entered a plow contest as a beginner. That put me against 2 kids that plow regularly and deserved to beat
me. I got 2nd place..so I put the ribbon on one picture of Dolly for the gentleman who gave her to me. Yet, it turns out there was a donation made to him for his family and health. My hubby stood up and gave the same donation for her to the family as they are on hard times and it is a sad time for them.

Country folks are wonderful, no matter where they live.

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/GMR2010/

thelmanelle

So we ground drove Dolly today.

here's a photo and a link:

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/PMD2010/

She did well after a bit adjustment and dropping the overcheck.

Very soft, gentle hands. I step back to get some photos. We spent an hour ground driving her for the 1st time. I do not know how long it has been for her. She is getting much healthier. Quick!

PasoBaby_CarolU

What a beautiful place to drive! You're very lucky, it looks like a polo field! I am so glad you got her Sonya. It looks like she'll have a wonderful life now...and needs it. I'm sure she will blossom there.

thelmanelle

That is my dressage arena minus the letters. I have not put them out...

But, it makes a nice place to put a visiting or new horse as I can turn on and off a hot box.

In fact, yesterday I went to turn it off and a moccasin was coming out of the hay towards my hand...I back off grabbed a shovel and quickly did away with that snake!

It makes a great training area for ground driving and the wagon starts in there, too.

We spent the rest of the morning greasing the bearings, cleaning the dirt off the brakes and greasing the fifth wheel of the wagon. Maintenance is everything! Safety!

merle

Dolly's beautiful, glad to hear that she has a loving home with you.

thelmanelle

Thanks,Merle and Carol. When she fills out the collar will fit better and the harness is adjustable. Right now, we had to take everything up.

I do hope in the future to get the chrome hames and better tugs on her hames then the ones I have for that harness set.

Right now for ground driving it will do. I plan to harness her up again today for a ground driving session.

She is slowly mingling with less kicks into the herd. Less running charges towards her. She is able to graze and get some shut eye. Her nature is gentle.

thelmanelle

Okay, so what do you know about fore carts and the non-powered and the powered? Meaning diesel vs. just a fore cart?

I am looking at getting one in the future. Been on my mind for a while. Going to a auction soon.

I'd like a diesel one because it is more useful with all types of farm equipment. My drafts are not afraid of the sound. They have had traffic, farming equipment, and raked hay. Pretty experienced slow moving , steady farm work horses.

Just take the time and get it done nice and easy as a team.

thelmanelle

Had a wonderful morning out with Bob and Belle and then with Bob and Dolly. She is really looking better.

Bob and Dolly

thelmanelle

Well, Dolly is looking better and gaining weight. She was not feed well young , but she looks fine under harness and she fits fine here!

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/PMD2010/

You can see her progression from thin to healthy. Hopefully as Spring comes , she will blossom. She will always be shorter due to lack to nutrition as a youngster.

Link to Bob and Belle:

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/2010DBAB/

Then, the shaky video and the southern accent...I just want to share the ride...

http://www.youtube.com/user/PinkB...?feature=mhum#p/a/u/0/APLBK6Fjyv0

thelmanelle

BTW, Dolly is sporting her new hames and traces. We had to try them on for size and be sure I measured correctly...

thelmanelle

Today, we took Bob and Dolly out for about 2 1/2 hours as the wagonette is light. We had one moment where lots of dogs barking and two trucks and a house and storage shed... with lots of horse running was a big issue.

Note to self, always have a extra leadline on the wagon! We made it out okay and even circled back by the dogs to see if things would go smoother.

The funniest part is that since it is usually Bob and Belle, the fussed the entire time at each other ...bite you, bite me! It was so peaceful other than trying to get them not to bite each other...

So here is today with some imagination conversation!

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/10DaB/11DaB/

I hope y'all enjoy this thread? Sometimes, I think I am talking to myself...blogging a thread a lone...

PasoBaby_CarolU

I love the pictures....looks like a great way to spend a beautiful day! Your Belgians are so awesome.

I admit I don't read this often, since I don't drive, but do check in now and again to see your pictures.

thelmanelle

Thanks, Carol. I hate to bore folks. This has been such a treat for me to learn to do and I do so love my Belles! And of course, the TWHs!

thelmanelle

This is way too cool to me!

Horse power!

http://www.khou.com/video/feature...-wheeler-from-snow-116982823.html

thelmanelle

Today, we gave families and kids rides at a 5 K Run.

http://s970.photobucket.com/albums/ae189/AGYG2010HOOVES/032611Legacy/

PasoBaby_CarolU

Wow. Nice. That looks like so much fun. They are adorable horses sSonya

thelmanelle

Carol,
I am in love with those gentle giants. I dearly love them. They are such a different personality, but they can run, buck and do whatever quick if need be... which most people do not realize and are shocked at that after they see how calm they act.

They are very fun!

bespotted · more driving interest

Hello,

I'm here. too. Mostly reading & enjoying your photos.
We've been busy since nicer weather has come. Had some driving lessons, and competed yesterday in the cold rain.
Last weekends hail storm caused alot of damage and we need anew roof and siding on the house, plus skylights are leaking. And fences were torn down. Almost all fences are fixed now.

I've also found Dr Deb Bennetts site Equine Study Institute http://www.equinestudies.org/ I was intriqued by her Birdie theory and training methods. She had recommended Mike Schaffer's book. http://www.mikeschaffer.com/ So I got that and have been studying how to do some of the exercises. They seem to be helping my gelding get lighter and me to take things slower. After 3 days practicing in hand, he was so responsive yesterday in harness I had to be careful where I pointed him.
Lots of info at both site, so I have been busy reading & learning.

Latina

Horseshoe Creek

Sonya, I've just started to harness up my QH mare, Tango. I think she likes it better than riding. The Belgians are lucky to have you - love looking at the pictures and hearing what driving adventures you are up to.

Chris

thelmanelle

Latina,
I have been keeping up with you and your lessons and getting ready for competition. You have to keep us posted here at times. You are fixing to be very busy!

Chris,
I am so excited for you! So, now, you have to show some pics and videos for us, too. We all start from some where and I started with Flint, but I was basically handed three very nicely trained Belgians that folks could not afford anymore. Dolly needs more ground work, but great as a team horse. Bob is better with being cleaned. I will not put Flint back after what happened to him.

Once, they got their weight up, the Belles don't require more than the normal horses in food...just a wonderful farrier, vet and a little more wormer. God bless my Farrier. I tip him every time!

My husband loves them. They do have larger poop....

Driving Thread

Carriage club show NC Sept 24-26

more driving interest