| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| ErinR76 |
Feeling Canter Leads at a trot?This is a somewhat advanced concept, but I've heard some horsemen talk about being at a trot in a straight line, and being able to feel which lead the horse is apt to take if you push him up into a canter. Anybody familiar with this, and know how to describe what to feel for? |
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| lizloveshorses |
I have heard Buck speaking of it on a couple of youtube videos that are posted and I have had the barest inclination when I am in the saddle. I believe it has a lot to do with how the horses ribs and hindquarters are positioned at the trot that will give them the canter lead. | ||||
| retropony |
This is a great question to ask Mark Rashid. He's the first one to explain it to me. Buck talks about it but I don't recall him breaking it down and explaining it. Short version; for me its the feel through the horse's body and the reach of the diagonal pairs that indicates the lead in the trot. Mark also has some cool thoughts on getting in time going from canter to trot. | ||||
| PasoBaby_CarolU |
If you remember Pat saying "If you do what your horse does long enough, pretty soon the horse does what you do. You just ride what you want to do."
It might sound confusing, but if you are riding a trot, you FEEL where the feet are. You ASK for the canter when the foot you want to lead with is being unweighted (before it leaves the ground). Your success depends on how well you time it and how well your horse responds. It all improves with practice. I hope this helps. It does require that you actively ride and are consistent riding and cuing your horse. |
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| ErinR76 |
Mark said if you can feel which side has the longer stride, that's the likely lead he'll take. so if he's reaching farther with his right front, he'll likely take the right lead if you ask him then.
I think for me, if I can get to where I can feel those hind feet, like you said, and ask when the left hind is fixing to come off the ground, I'll get a right lead. Lots of times I've tried to do that though, and I can feel my horse start to go into her right lead, then resist it, and fix herself up real quick so she can take the left lead instead. That's got to be about something, but I can't figure out what, yet. I've looked at chiropractic, saddle fit, teeth, etc. and it hasn't helped. I sit at my computer facing left a lot ("on my left lead"). Maybe thats it LOL |
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| CarolynAnn93 |
I am in no way good at this yet, but this summer at the camp I worked at I had the opportunity to learn more about this with Matt, the guy that heads up all the horse stuff there.
Matt is really big on body control. He was working with me on getting a particular horse to pick up a certain lead, so he was having me move her hips to the right (ready to pick up the right lead) and hold it there where I could feel her about to pick it up, then move her hips the other way (so I was counter-cantering at the trot, sort of). I am trying to get Belle really smooth at picking up the canter from a very collected trot, and going smoothly into the correct lead on MY cue. I don't have much of an issue with leads with her, just because she goes with what feels normal, but I want to someday be able to counter-canter her, so I have to be able to move her hips in both directions at the trot. I just love the feeling when she really softens up and I can move her shoulders and hips around like that. It's so cool. |
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| Blue Flame |
After a fair bit of research, I've actually eliminated intentional trot-canter transitions from my riding sessions. It is too easy to run the horse up into the canter and undo the collection required for a good (meaning balanced) transition. Mainly I work on backup-canter and halt-canter transitions both on the ground and rider-up if I'm going to canter at all. This gets it so the horse is not falling into or out of the canter.
I also trot very little. The trot, being symmetrical, is a gait the horse finds it very easy to develop braces with. I do not trot at all until I have cantered first otherwise my horse stiffens up. Regarding setting up a canter lead, watch/observe/compare what Buck does in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSLpyfzihts Notice especially: 1) the horse is NOT counterbent to get the lead - in fact is almost HQ-in. This weights the outside hind by bringing it more under the center-line of the horse. 2) almost no trot steps in the ride. 3) take special note (watch several times) the setup for lead and departure at the 2:00 minute mark in the video. |
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| ErinR76 |
its too subtle. I can't see any of it. | ||||
| AlythLong |
Perhaps this is too simplistic but the way I understand it is....
When trotting a circle you sit when the outside foreleg and inside hindleg are on the ground. You give the aid to canter when sitting on this diagonal. When the horse responds correctly his outside hind takes the next, first step of the canter stride. That is outside hind. Then the inside hind and outside foreleg together and finally the inside leading foreleg. This is why it is important to sit on the correct diagonal so your timing and balance (and horses balance) are correct. |
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| Blue Flame |
Doesn't matter - it still all goes into the subconcious 
Think in terms of the difference between trot and canter - that difference being that one diagonal is broken into two footfalls while the other diagonal remains with simultaneous footfalls. If your horse has a preference for one lead and prefers you to post the trot on one diagonal (tries to skip a step to get you posting on the other diagonal), then feeling the difference between one diagonal and the other while sitting might help. It's my experience that horses with a preference for one lead have a weaker outside hind on that lead. This translates back to the trot as well (posting preference). They will generally carry the HQ to the side with the weak hind to take weight off it - so a bit of HQ offset can show it up as well. Which brings us back to Buck's video - can you see the HQ offset before departure? I think that is setting up the outside hind to carry a little more weight by bringing it toward the centerline of the body - since the first step in the canter sequence has the horse completely supported on that outside hind. This HQ offset also angles the hips in such a way as to put the inside hind/hip in a slightly leading position. If your horse has no preference for canter lead or posting at trot, then lucky you and/or congratulations for getting your horse straight. |
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| Blue Flame |
Yep, and when sitting that way, it adds to the weight carrying done by the outside hind. If that outside hind is weak, then the horse may try to throw you onto the other diagonal.
Plus it's really difficult to give the aid while rising 
Some horses interpret a rider changing from posting to sitting (during trot) as a canter cue. Meanwhile others interpret a rider changing from posting or sitting to two-point as a canter cue. If the rider gets into the habits of always posting at trot, always sitting or in two-point (for jumpers) at canter and always sitting at walk, these easily become the cues for the gaits so far as the horse is concerned so choose carefully. I've seen one horse who interpreted the two-point position as a prep for jumping - as soon as the rider went into two-point, his ears would go into radar mode and he'd start scanning the area for something to jump. Once he locked on, you had better be ready to jump unless you sat back down. |