Gunner's abscess finally let go

bit · Gunner's abscess finally let go

It's been a week and 1/2 of him being off on that front left. I'm impressed with how the duct tape and diaper stayed dry after it rained like cri'azy all night long. I'm keeping it wrapped up, betadine and epsoms salt in the diaper, until things close up again. Using durasole, hoof supplements, and he feet look amazing. Tons of cancavity, no more bruising and he was cantering yesterday with Hawkie. Lots of snakey necking and rearing. Have a feeliing we'll be riding these two together. whoo hoo!
Thanks to all who encouraged me to give it a little time, and thanks to all who encouraged me towards shoes, if that's what was best for the horse. He's doing great.

Mandy'sMarty

Very good.

jokersmama

I'm glad to hear Gunner is feeling so much better!

It's amazing to watch them after the abscess breaks I've seen it multiple times where they are standing on hard ground like a concrete pad (sometimes that's all it takes, a little walk barefoot on the concrete) and it breaks and their whole posture changes.

One mare had been limping for a week and my friend called me and I told her to soak her for as long as she could and when I got there we were going to take her on the driveway and walk her a bit. That abscess blew not even 2 minutes later it squirt out the back of her heel bulb at least 6 inches! Eeeeew! But talk about some pressure that had to hurt. Then with every step it would squirt more out. We soaked her in some Epsom salts for a couple more days to make sure it was all out. She was fine from then on.

My Spanky had one in each front hoof at 6 months old from toe cracks and when the vet probed with his tool just a tiny bit and it blew Spanky's head dropped to ground his eyes softened and he let out this huge sigh.

bit

How long do you do the diaper/duct tape after it blows? It's muddy, wet, yucky right now. I don't want the yuk to go up into his foot.

whudson

bit

That could be November.

I hear the hoof will close in about three days, I just want to make sure. I never diapered Bunny's abscess. Once it burst, I quit soaking and she was fine.

jokersmama

I've never diapered after that fact. The vets say to keep it as clean as you can for the first couple days I believe, and clean it out twice a day and squirt some iodine in to clean it out. I also used hydrogen peroxide to clean it out. I suppose it would depend on where it is and how much contact with the ground it gets. If it's on the sole I would probably keep him booted for a couple days at least until it looks dried out.

bit

three weeks, thought he was good to go, took off the diaper and he was sore. I don't know. I started soaking again, diaper and duct tape, again. Should be be back on antibiotics? We are almost 70 today, and tomorrow? That's right, snow. Two days of snow and cold, then back to warm temps. Vet says it's abscess weather. The hoof contracts in the cold, expands in the warm. I'm not sure what to do. I don't want to vet to come out and open his foot. Poor guy. Any suggestions, or do I just keep soaking and padding? Is this a front shoe situation?

amira

Can you get a Davis boot? I kept my QH General's front hoof wrapped for about a week, then used a Davis boot with the felt insert which I swapped out daily so I could clean the dirty insert. That way it is protected, but can breathe better than a duct tape or even a vetrap bandage. You can also apply the medication you are using and the insert helps hold it in.

Altho the boot is plastic it allow for enough air circulation and total protection from the yuck factor. I took it off daily to check it and give the former abcess site a good rinse.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detai...medium=free&utm_content=10837

bit

Gunner finally is walking normally. I decided to not do the duct tape/diaper wrap because I knew it was going to snow. Duct tape can be very slippery. The only think I did was use the Tea Tree spray on his hoof where the vet dug it out, and he's doing fine right now. Whew. Now I just need to get his heel bulb injury healed up and we'll be riding in no time. That tea tree spray from valley vet is good stuff, and eats proud flesh like crazy. Proud flesh just goes away. No more. Much better than vetricyne.

alexwein

bit

Gunner is in a box stall, waiting for the vet to come take a look at his abscess. Is it really necessary to dig a hole in the bottom of the foot? I don't want it going up into the corinary band, and he's got a lot of heat in his foot. Poor guy. I hate to put a huge hole in his foot. No, not shoeing him. He seems to be doing great with barefooting, just can't seem to get this one abscess cleared up.
edited to add; vet came, dug a bit more, and seems to think he's just taking a bit longer to get through this, but no abscess pocket waiting to burst. I have to keep him dry for the next four days...yes, rain is coming tonight, so he's in a box stall for four days.

becky b

Oh poor baby. My horses hate to be confined to a stall. I hope he is healthy and outside real soon. I agree about the shoes, I hate to put them on but my levels horse spent several months recovering from one abscess then another. I finally broke down and had him shod, and knock on wood, no abscess since. He was really weird he kept having them in the same back foot. Most of the ones I have seen have been in front feet.

bit

I had upped Gunner's antibiotics as suggested by the vet here in town, and he was sound for 4 whole days. He'd been on antibiotics for some time, so once he was good to go, and had been sound for a while, I cut his antibiotics back down to where they were. He was lame again in a day and 1/2. Bad lame. Is there a good lame. Well, no. He can barely walk and is in a box stall, back to big doses and on bute. I am taking him to K State tomorrow for xrays and whatever procedure he needs to get back to health.
So glad we have an equine hosipital here with the best of the best of everything. Talked to the vet for quite a while.
He said that antibiotics can mask an issue, which is why Gunner was sound for a few days. It doesn't correct the problem. Wish I'd gotten him in a lot sooner, but not going to beat myself up about it. He's in a boxstall, bored, so on the way to go read to him. Probably another 6 weeks of stall rest, so lots of time to clicker train, keep company and build that relationship.
Ya'll please say a prayer for this sweet boy. Hope it's a quick, easy fix and he'll be back to taunting Hawk in no time. Oh, and yesterday? He finished dinner, picked up his bowl and handed it to me. Cool huh? This is Gunner during that little time he was sound.

bit

Just got back from K State Equine Vet Center. Pretty lucky to have an equine hospital of this calibur so close. Got there at 10 am, finally left (with Gunner) around 2:30. Except for Gunner's problem, I had a great time talking to the vet, watching the procedures, and looking at exrays.
It turned out, Gunner had a very deep abscess and with some bone infection. We caught it just in time. It would have blown out the coronary band, plus infected the coffin bone, and that would have needed surgery. As it is, he has a pretty good hole in his foot, had a false sole (love to hear more about that please), the beginnings of a bone infection which antibiotics will take care of, and some narrowing of some things I can't remember the name of that should be wider if he was healthy. All in all, quick and easy fix, 3 weeks of boots, soaking for 2 weeks, and if I shoe him, he is rideable with pads in two. I'll see how we feel about the shoe thing. Anyhoo, he's fine. Now. Wouldn't have been. So glad this is over and he's on the mend.

misstux

Glad to read the good news.

Newfman

bit

The hole in his foot goes up about two inches, so he's still in a diaper and duct tape boot. Soaking daily. I've gotten good at that dang boot, so I can turn him out in the arena to play with a friend, so he is thundering around on three feet, anyway.
I was going to do an equipak with front shoes on the 31st, so that sole has time to close up. After 6 weeks, pulling the shoes and going back to barefoot. Any thoughts? I'd be open to just equipack, but it only stays in for 3 weeks, and we are a bit muddy. I'm concerned that just equipak won't stay on with these conditions, without a shoe. Whatcha think? Newfman, sure wish you were closer. So the false sole can be an abscess source? Interesting!

Newfman

Not so much a source, as a mechanism. Abscesses tend to be a function of a foreign body or bacteria entering the internal environment from outside. A puncture is always a possibility, and can happen long before an abscess shows up. A tiny foreign body can sit inside the hoof for quite sometime, then suddenly it becomes recognized and attacked. KInd of weird actually.

Anytime bacteria is trapped against the solar aspect of the hoof, it needs only the slightest fault to finds its way into the foot. Some bacteria actually destroy frog and lamina and create tracts within. Just look at seedy toe and gravels. Thrush rather enjoys an opportunity to work its way on up to a digital cushion. So, a big puck of old dead sole, packed against the live sole and holding moisture and bacteria in place for extended periods of time, is just waiting an opportunity to help bacteria travel.

As far as equipak and a shoe. . .I would do equipak or a pad with a hoof cast. I see no real benefit to the shoe in this case. Also, if you are doing a proper barefoot trim, you couldn't put a shoe on. If you are getting a flat trim a.k.a. pasture trim, then you could mount a shoe. But, that then is part of the problem, no?

Goes up two inches? Is this in the sole or is this a gravel in the hoof wall?
Was a source for the abscess ever determined? I am assuming they did not find a keratoma?

bit

No source, just a 2 inch canal going up, from what I could see on the exray. I'll get in touch with my trimmer and see if she can do the hoof cast with the equapac. Thanks!

Newfman

Can you post the xray? Also, I'm still not sure where the tract is. Is it through the sole, or between the hoof wall and the lamina?

bit

I can call K State and see if they can send it to me via email. The abscess was through the sole, on the toe and traveled up along side the coffin bone. He's doing much better, and still soaking him every day. No signs of lameness or even being off. How long does it take for an opening to close suffiently so that the sole no longer needs protection? It's a bit wet here, and I know with every step, it forces bacteria and debrie up into the foot. Is there a point where there will be a hole, but no openeing into the abscess cavity? Do you know what I mean? At what point do the sole close enough to allow protection?
I had a horse that I had transitioned to barefoot, went through about 4 abscesses, but once it started draining, she was fine. I didn't continue to soak and never booted her. Perhaps I was just lucky that she was ok. It's been about three weeks since his visit to K State. I did go back in and open things up on a Saturday, after he suddenly was off, again. K State wasn't open and I knew what to do. So if my invasion of that cavity counts, it's been two weeks of booting. How long until he's safe to turn out in the world?

Newfman

I don't want to contradict Kent States orders, since they may actually be more qualified than I. Go figure. Infact, you could share the post op. proceedures they sent you home with.

I reiterate. . .my opinion and not that of a medical professional.

Everyday soaking of the foot is going to keep the sole wet. This is going to greatly inhibit its ability to granulate in. I would avoid digging in with non sterilized instruments, and hunting expeditions are not a good idea. You can very easily introduce bacteria or even a speck of dirt and end up starting all over again, months down the road. With a tract as you describe, osteomyelitis of the pedal bone is a good posibility if the wound becomes infected. I assume that this is right along the edge of the white line. If so, and I absolutely, as you said, had to invade the cavity, I would go in at the whiteline/sole junction. Not straight through the sole.

Often in these cases, less is more, at least that is what my research has turned up. Again I am not an expert. Moisture is the biggest culprit to slowing the healing. You want this to heal from the corium side of the sole outward.

1) Keep it clean and dry. Keep the horse in as dry an environment as you can. If you have a friend with an indoor arena, maybe he can spend a week or two hanging out, loose, in there(?). That way he could move around, excercise and heal.

2) I think the Diaper and duct tape is better than boots, casts, pads and shoes. Feet sweat, sweat is moisture, mosisture slows the healing. You may have to change diapers often. Your a Mom, get over it!

3) Watch for bridging or granulation from the outside. If you see the hole start to cover from the outside, you want to use a clean hoof knife and carefully ease back the outer layer of sole material. You would make it a bit of a cone or stadium shaped perimeter. Remember, it needs to fill in from the inside out. Don't get agressive or set back the inside healing. In other words, don't dig in. Just clean up the edges.

4) I don't think soaking in an antibiotic laden moisture providing solution does anything at this point, other than slow the healing. I would paint on some 2% iodine at diaper changing time and call it good. Iodine will act as a drying agent, as well as an antibacterial agent.

Two weeks with this protocol I think will put you well on your way. NSAIDS for soreness. Avoid digging without Veterinary approval.
You may even discuss what I posted with the Kent State Vet. Remember, it isn't about me, and it isn't about them. It's about the horse! Ask questions, and get help. You are the Momma bear, be nice, polite, and aggressive.

edited for spelling where I could find it

bit

My digging was to remove stuff they gave me to put in the cavity after I booted him. It turned almost waxy, and I wondered if it was prohibiting the abscess from draining. I removed it with a clean knife, soaked him and he was better by that afternoon. I do throw some betadiine in the hole before I throw on another diaper, which remains dry. He is in a box stall with clean, dry bedding.
Ok, so I can turn him out in a dry, dirt arena. Are you saying booted, or not????
I have an indoor I turn him out in, but I'm afraid of dirt getting into his little crater and traveling up into that wound. That's why I asked about how long it takes for that to no longer be an issue. If dirt packs in the crater, even though it's closed, does that keep the sole from closing? Do I keep booting him until it's totally healed?
I had a farrier look at it and he said I SHOULD continue soaking. He said that the salt soak aids in healing the dark, dead sole material that you see at the end of his little crater. Think I'll give K State a call and see what they say. I should be trimming the dark stuff? Ok, so when can you be here? I'll take a picture and post it. Probably cheaper than you flying to Kansas.

Newfman

I think your best bet is no boots and no soaks. Dry is the goal. A good diaper application and a careful eye will prevent dirt from getting in. Movement increases circulation and enhances healing. If Kent has you using a packing, i would remove it with tweezers, inspect, iodine and lightly pack with what ever they are reccomending. (Keratex maybe?) Just plain gauze is what I packed my own surgical hole with, and it worked very well. The idea I believe is to prevent the hole from filling in on the outside.

Dirt should not pack into the crater with a good fitting diaper. A horse can grow a complete sole in two months. You are just looking for a good portion of that. After that, if there is still a little divot there that gets dirt (not manure) in it, oh well. The sole grows from the inside out, so it won't get taken up into the hoof capsule.

I only said boots as analternative to shoes, which I think would be a royal PIA. But even boots get hot and sweaty. Right now you need it dry and breathable, so you may need to be creative.

Soaks help with skin wounds. As we used to say in emergency medicine; If it dries, it dies. That is not so with the hoof. Moisture will keep the new horn in the wound too soft and mushy. I'm guessing that more than one wild horse has abscessed. They keep moving, on dry arrid ground, not manure covered soft soil paddocks and pastures. They don't get antibiotics and they seem to do pretty well. Sometimes we do too much, when less can be more. What I have given you would be a compromise between natures way, and excessive attention.

Make sense?

Let me know what Kent says.

Gotta go to work.

Cheers,
Dennis
Hope that helps.

bit

thanks Dennis. I gave Dr. Beard a call at K State and he agreed that it would be best for Gunner to be dry. I'll keep him in the duct tape diaper boot until his sole grows in enough so that he can return to the pasture. He also spends time socializing in the alley with no covering at all. It's clean, rough concrete, so no boot is necessary.
This means another 3 weeks in the box stall, with trips outside to run, play, recover, and give that hoof some walking time. No shoes, no equipak, just time. I can do that. Here is a picture of his foot right now. Honestly, after three weeks, I can't see any growth at all. I see it every day, so maybe taking pictures once a week will help me see him progress.

Newfman

Looks like he hasn't used those feet in awhile, judging from the cob webs.

Just kidding. Great news. I also see that that is a lot of excess hoof wall and some retained sole. I just want to reach through the screen with my nippers!
The abscess tract is right at the place where leveraging effects will be placed on the sole/wall junction, due to the excessive toe growth. This will strain the tract and cause some delays in healing as well. You may want to post or send me over-all photos of the foot, though I don't want to put you at odds with your farrier any more than I may have already done.

Late for work, spent the morning under a stubborn morgan, so that has put me wayyy behind.

Cheers!

bit

I KNOW!

He was trimmed about 3 weeks ago, and his other feet look fine, but this one isn't getting any wear, and it growing like crazy. He's on good supplements, and he's putting on a lot of hoof. He is scheduled for a trim on the 31st, but he needs one right now. I have a call in to get someone out sooner. Sure ya can't make it out to Kansas? I'll feed ya!

Newfman

So, let me understand this, You are driving about 800 miles to get to your Vet at Kent State? They don't have good equine Vet facilities in Kansas?

I'll have to read back and figure out what I am missing.

Thanks for the dinner invite. I don't know though, I went to Pauline Central and Pauline South Elementary schools. I don't know if I am in a big rush to go back there any time soon. Besides, Kelly Tolfson is probably all grown up and married and moved away by now. **heavy sigh**

I know they breed some nice quarterhorses out there though...hmmmmm, someday, maybe...

bit

K State, silly man. I thought you were just having a senior moment. It's only about 1/2 hour from my house.
Sure that's not Tolfeson? She's on facebook. Sorry, I love getting folks together...and horses and people. Hey, this could be fate!
Very nice quarter horses out this way. Tons of horses out here, and things to do with them. Lovin' Kansas, who woulda thunk it? My friends still can't believe I moved here, and their friends can't believe it when they tell them they are taking a vacation here to see me. Kansas? Really? WHY?

Everyone thinks it's like western Kansas, which is a bit ugly.
Thanks for all your great insight, and words of wisdom. This is the most I have ever done regarding an abscess on a horse. I've never opened the hoof to get things to drain. Soaking, sure. Never called the vet out. His other feet are good, so think I'm going to try barefoot with him, and see how he does. Thanks again, and look up yer woman! If this works out, dibs on being the flower girl!

Newfman

LOL, very funny. Yes, I beleive that is the correct spelling. She didn't like me then, and I doubt it would be any better now

Rhonda was the same way, though she got stuck with me as a square dance partner. Too funny. . .Besides, after 17+ years with my other half, I'm kind of settled in.

I could swear I saw Kent State somewhere in the thread. Then last night, on my way home from work it hit me, why Kent? Doesn't Kansas State or the University of Kansas have a vet school? I was a bit confused. then I thought, maybe she is from Kansas, but now is in Ohio or something.

Glad we got that straightened out.