Had a runaway this morning

jackspark · Had a runaway this morning

Well, when things go bad, sometimes they go really bad. Took her out this morning and I should have known, she just seemed to not settle down like she has been doing. I had to get off her a couple of times but we were making it through some new territory. After the second dismount and walk her, I got back on and decided to head back home cause s""t was not coming together. We made it almost back home and we were stopped looking at another booger when up from behind I heard the turkeys and she did too. I though she was doing really well with it until the whole freaking flock flew up behind us. She whirled around and I let her because she has never gone more than 10 or 20 feet in a spook. By the time I realized it was not your normal spook she was galloping toward the fence in a blind sprint. I was certain that we were going through the fence and it wasn't going to be pretty for either of us. I might say at this point I couldn't stop her......... at all........ not even a little bit. Thank goodness she veered away at the last moment and continued up the path. It was at this point that I knew that I would just ride it out and she would regain her senses....... I could feel her begin to let down. We went about 200 yards before I got her to stop and got off. It was a long walk home......... lots of thresholds, too many to count

I am afraid that this will really effect our confidence and am looking for the best way to proceed.

whudson

Wow, Nancy. Glad that ended well!! I don't have the confidence myself to be on a runaway horse anymore. I am pretty sure I would panic. I'm even impressed that you are brave enough to go out by yourself

So I guess on that note....I'm no help

PasoBaby_CarolU

I'm not sure what to tell you Nancy. She needs more spook in place training, preferably with a flock of birds. You couldn't borrow some..a flock of chickens or something? Or have dogs running around when you are working at home in your arena...lots of unexpected things so she learns to trust you in those situations?

Either that or take a gun out and start shooting turkeys! There are turkeys here in our mountains also...but they must get hunted more because they always head off the other way and have never attacked a horse that I know of.

Also, you might ride with bells or something so they hear you coming and leave before you get there.

Mandy'sMarty

Nancy, I like Carol's idea about the bells. I noticed that when I put sleigh bells on Mandy, she focused on the rhythmic sound of the bells that mimicked her gait. She then was not as hyper-vigilant of our surroundings and she became more focused on me and my leadership. The sound of the bells should scare the turkeys away as you approach.

If the turkeys eventually become habituated to the sound of the bells...well, then you've got another situation. If that were to happen, perhaps by then you would have achieved a stronger connection with your mare by using the bells. And if your turkeys really become habituated to the sound of the bells, they probably won't spook and erupt into noisy flight. They may just run away.

I know turkeys are supposed to be intelligent birds. I don't know if they are inclined to live within a defined territory as deer do. When Mandy was boarded at a large farm with several resident herds of deer, I noticed how the deer eventually came to recognize me and Mandy and my Lab whenever we went out for a ride. I eventually taught my Lab not to chase after the deer until I gave her the OK. She learned to alert on and then watch the deer without giving chase. The deer learned that we were all non-threatening. Eventually the three of us could travel by the resident herds of deer and the deer would simply stand and watch us go by. One older doe would even remain recumbent on the ground as we passed.
Perhaps the turkeys will eventually learn to recognize you.

bit

Um, Hawk? Never spooked in his life, until the day the turkey attacked. Flew right at him from the side. Turkey did not spook, it attacked. Thinking she had babies near by. I'm not sure what tact Hawk used, I only know he passed me like I was standing still, and Eclipse was in full flight mode. Of course gaited full flight mode is very smooth, and you pause, think, "hmmm, mighst we be spooking oh steed?" I brought Eclipse on around because I noted that Hawk was absent one Kelsey Corey. Yep, there was Kelsey on the ground, stepped on and not moving. She managed to leap up when she realized there were multiple breeds of ticks making a beeline for her body. She didn't walk right for a while. We should start a book, Nancy. When Turkey's Attack!
Music helps me. I loaded the Avatar album, as well as a bunch of my favorite horse songs on my ipod, and that puts my mind in a good place. I think that heading for the fence was a very scary deal. You didn't know if she would go into it or turn. Something for next time, little pulses with the rein in the direction you want her to go. And sending your mind in that direction, too.
I love going fast. Love it. Hate feeling out of control. The difference is often just in my mind. I'm working on that. When Eclipse ran up the hill the other night, I was in heaven. Some folks might have been pretty scared. I didn't feel her go right brained, it was a left brained bolt. I just helped her go a little faster than she wanted to go. Right brained bolts? Dang scarey stuff. No connection and no control. Makes me ask, so what does one do to regain control? To reconnect so that horse dives back into our mind because it's a safe place to be? I'm gonna ask Brent. I'll let ya know what he says, ok?

jackspark

Yes Carol, you are right she needs more spook in place training...... I thought we were getting it out on the trail but maybe not to the degree that we need. This is just a difficult thing that I am trying to do...... teach a green horse to go out by herself without the "go with a buddy" period. I always ride alone and have no one to buddy her with, soooooo it is what it is

We have done so well up until today so I'm a bit sad about it. I just need to get the emotion out of it and do some back trackin' I suppose. Turkeys are what all of my horses struggle with; I need to start eatin' the little buggers

Marty, I am going to try the bells for her. The turkeys were put into flight by my Rat Terrier and not responding to us at all so they are already habituated to the horses, just not the dogs.

Ok Deb, "When Turkeys Attack" or "Turkeys gone Wild" sounds like a way to finance a hospital visit

Mandy'sMarty

I'm not sure this helps with Nancy's situation...but it is something that I learned about last weekend.

I was visiting a friend's little farm and we had just spent a few hours hanging out and working on each of her nine horses. As we walked back from the pasture I turned and saw a lone turkey walking among the horses scattered about. It looked like they all knew each other.

"Oh, that's Gertrude" my friend remarked. She went on to say that this wild turkey makes an appearance in the horse pasture 2 or 3 times every day.
Brought her babies out with her to meet the horses last season. My friend has a young dog they adopted a few months ago. I had my Lab with me that day. Neither dog seemed to notice the turkey, although she made her appearance when they were not in the pasture.

PasoBaby_CarolU

That is certainly a good option Marty. My friend's neighbor has a turkey...that is always at her house. You can buy turkey chicks at the feed store...and if you are really TOUGH, you can feed and eat them at Thanksgiving. LOL

jackspark

Pet Turkey, not a bad idea if I could keep the dogs from killing it

Going to think about that one for sure

Ok, found two large jingle bells and put them on my saddle........ will this be an ok placement or should I attach them to the reins? Also checked my stirrups and found one of my safety stirrups had functioned well......... started to unlock itself, good to know!!

Mandy'sMarty

Give 'em a try there on the saddle and take note of how they sound.
I attached the sleigh bells like a collar around the base of Mandy's neck. They were already attached to a leather strap. I have since used rhythm beads hung around the base of her neck next to her breast collar and tied to the front of my saddle. My guess is that your bells may need to hang so that they move and jingle more easily.

becdubie

Way to stick to the saddle Nancy! You did it, you didn't fall off.
I think that sometimes they will just spook and we need to be good enough riders (LOL .... I know...easier said than done) to stick it out, just like you did.

Maybe you need to practice your one rein stop and emergency dismount from faster paces...trot...canter.... I don't think you can despook her to everything, but what you can do is get her to trust that even if she is afraid....she should look to you for safety...even when you are on her back.

Buck has what he calls his rectangle....the horse should feel safe and comfortable when they are in the rectangle (between his legs and his reins) So when they do spook you put them there and they should say Oh Ok I'm where I'm safe..... I donno how that would work for us regular folks, but that's what he said he does. Since you could spend a lifetime desentising your horse to various things, but you will never be able to get to every thing...plus those things will look different when they arent' in your arena and the KEY is that your horse needs to look to you for safety.

jackspark

Yep Bec, that's the key! It's the safety/trust thing from the saddle that is where we are working and I really thought we had made a lot of progress until this morning. She is having a difficult time making the transition from ground to saddle. 1: I am asking her to trust me on the ground, 2: I am asking her to leave her herd, 3: I am asking her to accept me in the saddle, 4: Finally, I am saying "come with me, out away from your herd and you will only be able to feel me in the saddle and trust that I am REALLY up there and you are not by yourself. A lot to ask of any horse, I think.

You are also right that the contraption I just made to simulate a flyin' turkey will be more acceptable in my arena then outside. She is not a flighty horse at home, lots of confidence when you know that your mom is near! I also think you are right that I need to go back to the trusty one rein stop at faster gaits.......

hole in her training for sure. I really need to adjust my priorities and put a little more arena time in as well as the excursions out and about ( I have been neglecting this area)

Marty, I think you are right too, the bells might need to hang instead of laying up against the saddle. I'll try it out later this evening

PasoBaby_CarolU

Of course you can't desensitize a horse to everything, but you can teach it to spook in place and trust you, and you do that at home in a controlled environment.

bit

I have rythm beads, and chose them because of the good sound of the bells. THey are brass, got em at equifest. Bells seem to calm and establish candence, too. I still think, even with bells, that turkey would have gone after Hawk. She attacked him. It was premeditated. Dang turkeys. I believe in the death penelty and have many local folks happy to carry it out! Now I just gotta kill all the cows in Kansas so Gunner will feel safe. Glad you are ok.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I do think that some horses have phobias they don't get over. Diablo is like Gunner and I've had cows in the neighboring pastures for years and he's still terrified of them, deer, butterflies, snow melting, gun pops, etc. We've spent hours with a pellet gun trying to desensitize him to noise and it has done no good. And talk about trust...he doesn't run, he hides behind me.

I am sure he'd be terrified of turkeys too, since he's afraid of so many things. I have owls and starlings in my barn, and they've done nothing to convince him the chickens won't eat him.

You should have been here when the ostriches moved in next door!

They were followed by Emus on the north side!

They're all gone now (thank you Lord), but it was sure interesting when they first got here. LOL

jackspark

Been mullin' it over all damn day........ sometimes ya just can't put something down. It occurred to me, just a minute ago, that instead of fixating on the fact that I had an incident I need to do what I always tell others to do....... move those thoughts downstream. I have ridden an inexperienced horse, outside by ourselves at least 75 times since the beginning of May and this is the worst of it? Ok, Ms bitcher and whiner time to celebrate all that we have accomplished and give her the credit that she is due. This is twice that she has faced the evil that is the TURKEY and once, today, she just lost it.

PasoBaby_CarolU

That's more like it! Much better. She's a GOOD girl...but killer turkeys are just not in the horse psych to stand still for.

jackspark

Hubby just came in to tell me just how wonderfully long Turkey season is!

Oh an squirrel..... What? who cares

I am not eatin' it and it doesn't scare the horses......

becdubie

Still, Nancy. You done good, you've accomplished a lot so far and I be she has forgotten about the whole thing......turkeys and all.
And Thanksgiving is right around the corner.

misstux

jackspark

Blue Flame

Squeeze game - with the emphasis on turn stop and LOOK - and combined with head down, will help shorten the horse's flight distance.

When we had this at its best, Blue Flame would simultaneously spread and plant his front feet and put his head DOWN as a reflex - which shuts off a lot of the adrenaline response.

Beware though that the turn to face is often what unseats you when you get this down pat.

I've read that one quality in a horse that considers the rider, even when spooking, is that when the power downwards before springing away, they at least wait for your seat to catch up with the saddle before they bolt.

One thing that might help is to go out with your horse and start chasing turkeys - on-line to start with of course.

bit

Ok, I gotta image. Nancy's husband with a turkey on a rope. Extreme circle game. Turkey can only flee/fly in a circle, horse and Nance chasing said villion on a mare with a big ole smile on her face. Ok, on both their faces. Turkey loses 10 pounds and never attacks a horse again. We tag it and work our way through the entire turkey population of Misouri and Kansas. Oh, lots of dramamine for Nancy's husband. He's gonna need it. Lots and lots of turkey sandwiches.

sebocat

Paco has a completely unreasonable phobia of pigs. His nemesis, Steve, is a 1000 lb lady-pig with a sense of humor.

I like the chase the turkeys idea, and I like the thought of chase the pig, but what do you do to get them to the point where they can even do THAT?

If Paco even catches WIND of Steve, he's in a right-brained tizzy.

(BTW, I am totally impressed that you stayed on for the sudden turn. I would have fallen on my head)

thelmanelle

Nancy,
Y'all did very well I flew left as Jesse did a reining horse whorl for 5 killer deer. I landed on my back. He ran several feet and then, turn to look at me and why was I not with him?

Flint ran away with me so fast outside the pasture as the others were running in the pasture. We were flying finally I knew I had to dismount as he was fully braced and not turning or stopping. I leaped off and he suddenly turned and gave me the look that asked, "Now, why'd you do that? We were having fun!"

He can back to me , also.

I was shaking, but I do know if I am going to ride I am going to fall due to something interesting situation.

I am glad you are okay. Sometimes, it does affect your confidence and other times, it doesn't. The situation is the biggest part. The trust. It took me a while to regain the trust with Flint.

I already had it with Jesse.

jackspark

Feelin' it today....... all groin muscles are on fire! I hope that doesn't mean I gripped her too hard

thelmanelle

Every thing is alright. You might be sore, but the relationship will mend and so will the confidence. We love the horses and riding too much to let it go!

Copious_Amour

jackspark

Took her back to the scene of the crime. No problem out of the right eye but when I turned her to see if out of the left eye.......... apprehension and high head. Funny how that works, like the right side wasn't there at all!

Clarissa

I’ve been too sick to have any input recently but I have read as I can during the last few days & make this combined response now.

Hertha

Glad you and horse are okay, Nancy. Hope your muscles are recovering. I did huge damage to a hamstring riding thru a spook one time so I can sympathize.

Like you said, you can look at it as a notch on your belt rather than anything else. It happened, you stayed on. You learned more about your horse and she learned more about you - you didn't bail out on her!

If the horse has a terror attack, I don't think there is anything to be done except try to stay in balance with it and ride out the flight distance as safely & as athletically as possible to help the horse keep its footing. If the landscape allows, it may be possible to suggest a circle, but that's often not possible.

You said that thinking back, you feel you ignored some warning signs that maybe it wasn't a good riding day. No doubt that will make you more sensitive to your gut feelings in the future.

sebocat

Interesting you mentioned the right-eye, left eye thing. Paco was the same but with ME.

You should get pet turkeys.

I'm thinking about a pet pig.....(or at least one for the freezer

) Mayhbe I'll even name it Steve....bwahahaha

thelmanelle

That soak sounds good. Going back to the scene is good , too. I did many grounds walks/rides for a time to re-establish that just because horses in the pasture took off did not mean we took off. But, any thing can spook them.

I like Clarissa's idea of the figure eights, if you are aware. For me, I made a mistake and it was my own fault for what occurred.

Turkeys can fly out anywhere on a trail.

Kim Cassidy

I'm not sure that you can prepare for every eventuality that you will meet on trail. I don't have enough experience training horses from scratch, have only done 2 and am working on # 3. What I am finding is that ponying newbie horse from steady eddy horse makes for amazing progress. Is that a possibility for you?

Finn helped train Wyatt and now Wyatt is training Fiona. Every time I ride, I take Fiona along with us. She has experienced cars, trucks, buses, motorcycles, pigs, coyotes and cholla all while watching how Wyatt handles it. The other night friends and I were out later than planned and ended up riding up the street in the dark. Not two weeks ago Fiona was spooking at every car, this time, cars coming at us with lights and passing us caused not even an eyelash to bat.

I can't help but think being surrounded by been there, done that horses makes her feel more confident, I know it did for Wyatt.

Speaking of Wyatt, he came to me halter broke and now he is my riding horse, I ponied him for 3 months straight and I'm blown away by the results.

Of course I work in the ring with all my clicker lessons as well, I like to think that helps. It certainly can't be that I pick out magical horses every time

Jacks, lacking confidence totally sucks, I know the feeling. Sounds like you handled the spook perfectly, good for you! Were your legs shaking when you got off?

I hope you guys find your rhythm and this is just all practice for perfection.

CoolsLadyInRed

Glad you are doing ok Nancy. So many great ideas to try. I like Kim's suggestion of ponying your horse. (Of course you need more than one horse to do that). Those darn turkeys. We have got a ton of them around here,too. Just have never come by any on horseback,yet. Cranes are the thing that send my horse over the edge. she will see a flock of them strutting through the field and she can't take her eyes off of them. I approach and retreat and hope they take off in flight. My mare stiffens right up and totally forgets there is a body on her back. But like someone said, it is hard to desensitze for every animal out there. I can only imagine a bunch of turkeys flying up.

thebundychick

So glad you are ok!! How utterly terrifying!!

I'm facing the same dilema's here. My new girl Rebel, is super fantastic on the ground, but my word! Take her away from Sante, down the road, and i have a RBE in full flight mode. She is getting better - our last efforts, she was RBI, with only two RBE explosions, and a total LBI all the way home - but based on her reactions at being out alone, I am not game to get on her yet.

Maybe, next visit out, I might actually ride her home - but I don't need to have my confidence shattered, by falling off her in a full bolt. She moves with such agility, I would be unconscious on the ground before i knew what had gone wrong :/

I have considered ponying - but it was REBEL i wanted to ride, whilst ponying Sante, while i bought him back into work - however, to be honest, after witnessing her reaction to being out - i would rather ride my SERIOUSLY HOT thoroughbred (thanks to copious amounts of "go crazy" food, and NIL exercise" and pony Rebel, than vica versa. Because... at least I know all Sante's vices.

I'm so glad that you are OK. Buying a pet turkey sounds awesome.

A few months ago, I had the wonderful oppotunity of riding with my friends cattle dog, who ran around like a complete lunatic. It was brilliant. by the end of the ride, Sante, who was somewhat perplexed by dogs, thought it was a hoot to chase after him and play tag.

Copious_Amour

thebundychick

[quote="Copious_Amour:91845"]