Has anyone seen this before?

Horseshoe Creek · Has anyone seen this before?

Okay, I've posted pics before of Spikes frogs - they got better for the most part, but not totally, then recently took another turn for the worse. I have exhausted everything I can think to help him.

I know these pics aren't the best angle but I was by myself. His hooves have been doing funky things on and off for years. The exterior puts out constant rings and the hind frogs are usually tender. They are cleaned regularly - hay was tested with normal range, blood work - CBC and Chem was done and vet declared them normal, although the chem states Mild Stress Hyperglycemia. He gets grass hay or pasture plus vitamin/mineral supplement. No grain, no sweets. He is an easy keeper - I'd got his weight off by having him in an indoor arena this past winter but with the unusual amounts of rain we've had, pastures are lush. I have him on the skimpiest pasture and bring him in behind the barn for at least half the day. He will run in the pasture but is extremely tender to the touch. I'm sure the extra rain hasn't helped, but we are usually fairly arid and he is still tender during those times too.

Vet states not thrush (I've treated him with everything from Oxine soaks to Pete's Goo, Save a Hoof, Huuf Magic, Betadine, Sugardine, you name it), and not canker. Farrier is wondering about a yeast infection but the whiteline is not involved and CBC came back normal. Farrier is also not totally convinced it's not canker.

Farrier is due Tuesday to put shoes on the hinds for one round, hoping to give the heels relief enough to callous so he can wear the Easyboot Edges when ridden. Since trim before last, the outside side of his hinds have put out major flares, probably due to compensating for sore hinds. This will be addressed on Tuesday.

This has stumped 2 vets.

Front frogs, as comparison... these are 3-4 weeks out from last trim.

Right front - showing the constant rings he produces.

Hinds...
Left hind - the raggy bit on the frog is a piece sloughing. Note the flare on the one side.

Right hind - hard to see but there almost seems to be a harder outward bulge to the left of the frog. Sorry for the dirt - he swung around through some dirt on the way into the barn and I just wanted to get the pics of the center/back of the frog and his heels. It looks worse in the pic - will try to get better ones when hubby is not in the hayfield.

My eyes are glazing over trying to figure which hoof supplement would be best, or if one is needed at all. Something is wrong.

Anyone seen anything like this before? I am thinking I'd like to have him sedated and those frogs opened up - they are too tender to do anything with them without it.

Much appreciated.

Chris

Kim Cassidy

I have worked on Canker and that doesn't look like it. Not saying I'm right or wrong, but my guess is over saturation.

Anyway, you could keep the horse in a stall to dry the feet out?

Also if I were you, I'd post a detailed description of the environment and situation over on www.horseshoes.com

The feet do have a lot of rings in the wall, any chance you are battling laminitis (mild)?

What is the breed of your horse? Turnout time, where do you live?

Horseshoe Creek

Thanks Kim,
I don't think it's canker either - and I am so relieved. The research I did on that wasn't pretty. I live in southern Saskatchewan, Canada on a cattle ranch. While we've have more rain than normal this spring, it's probably on the normal end for most. It's not like he's been slogging through mud. :lol: I kept him boarded at an indoor arena all winter where he had turnout in a large pen daily and it at night in a box stall when it was too cold. He was ridden daily on a coarse sand arena. His heels seemed to be sensitive to the freeze/thaw cycle of snow there.
When they are at home, they are on pasture 24/7 - plain prairie grass pasture.
He is a solid paint/qh - approximately 9 years old. I've had him for 5 years - spent the first year or two getting rid of very flared hooves and the last 2 or 3 years, at least battling raw heels, orange, swollen heels and now this past 6-8 months, the frogs.
I have pulled him off the pasture entirely for now, feeding straight grass hay. The rings are certainly telling me he isn't metabolizing something right - or sensitive to normal sugars. My mare, on the same pasture has normal hooves.
I will send the pictures and history to horseshoes.com. Thanks for the link.

Chris

jokersmama

It still looks like canker to me...do a google search "canker in hooves" and look at images. It looks different in a lot of hooves.

His frog looks like cauliflower to me.

I really hope it's not, but that is what it looks like- to me anyway from the pics

Have you had the vet out? Is there a test they can do for canker?

PasoBaby_CarolU

Chris, you might try some blood tests, insulin-glucose, and see if he's perhaps IR. That would explain the rings. If you were to see my IR mare you would never think it, she is not overweight and is in incredible condition - actually looks the best of all my horses. But, the IR is there. Different horses express it differently, but your horse looks to have a long history with something. I'd start with sugar.

Is there by chance something you feed once a month? Those rings look pretty consistent down his hoof.

I can't help you with canker or the frogs. I'm no trimmer or farrier and have never seen feet like that. I also live in a dry climate and don't see many hoof problems others get.

Anyway, I hope you get to the root of the problem and help your horse. Best of luck and keep us updated.

Newfman

The front frogs certainly do not look like canker. I question the hinds though. The photo is deceptive, and wet frogs always look sickly to me. If you can get his feet nice and dry, brush off the dirt (not wash) and get a few photos, it might help. I'm not ready to RO canker based on those photos. You doctor can also biopsy some frog tissue. they are frogs though, no telling how much crap would grow.

The rings. . .

This is yet another good example of feet that could use x-rays. Digital x-rays. It looks like chronic lamintis to me with a new event. Not all rings are metabolic. There can be pinching at the dorsal aspect of the coronary band, from distal decent and swelling. I doubt you'd be interested in paying for venograms, and likely your vet hasn't done them, since vet school, if at all. This would be a good case for it though. Certainly x-rays though. Regular films won't typically show the corium and some other soft tissue markers, so that is the reason to insist on digital. My clients are welcome to use their own vet, but if they don't have digital equipment, we call mine, but just for the rads.

Horseshoe Creek

Sorry, it took me a bit to get back here.

Non wet picture of left hind about 10 days before the "wet" one.

I posted pics on the horseshoes.com site and opinions are varied between canker and not canker. There is no smell, like the articles I've read say there should be.
Some are saying that balancing the foot and putting shoes on the hinds to get him off his heels may be all it takes. The farrier will be here tomorrow and the vet will be here Thursday am to sedate him so the frogs can be opened/cleaned up, take a culture and a biopsy. I need to phone the clinic and make sure he brings the right tubes for an IR test. I had mentioned it to the other vet but she obviously didn't do it.

Thanks! I will post again when I know more.

Chris

jokersmama

Don't know if you came across this article in your canker readings. It was sent to me and I think it's a pretty good one.

http://www.equipodiatry.com/canker1.htm

Horseshoe Creek

Thanks Alona. I have read that article - kind of daunting, like all the articles on canker - yuck... I booked an appointment at the vet college and talked to a Dr. Wilson, who also mentioned Dr. O'Grady as doing a similar procedure as he does. He is booked for next week to have it evaluated and debrided. I sent him the pics and history, along with the below picture from yesterday (on the leg that wasn't nearly as bad as the other one just a few days previous) and he is 99% sure it's canker. After seeing this foot, I am sure agreeing...

Blech

Now I'm just trying to organize all my supplies for the aftercare. He will be there a week, then the next few months are up to me.

Chris

calatar

OUCH!

jokersmama

That really sucks! But I'm so happy you have a plan of action and attack.

Now that you have a plan and someone that knows what they are doing, you can start moving forward and get him healed.

Take lots of pics for us, and keep us updated, he will be in my horsey prayers for a speedy recovery, and you for strength and healing vibes

Pics also help if you start getting discouraged to be able to see what you started with.

learningthedance