Hello From South Africa!

Malcolm · Hello From South Africa!

Some of you might have met me elsewhere where I learnt lots but had my enquiring mind banned. Since then I took a needed break from forums while getting the horses back into swing for the polocrosse and polo season. Am still researching the new wave of horsemanship for a book project and the Road to the Horse Event caught my interest and I want to ask things of those that witnessed it. Carol has kindly agreed and sees nothing wrong with research here as long as I play by the rules.

But apart from this project, I have several others on the boil. A young TB gelding of the track has joined my string of schooled horses ranging from a retired Anglo-Arab in his twenties who like his up and coming substitute mare Flame, was started from scratch by me. There are a few rescue TB's some with behavioural problems which are performing nicely now. Added to them is a problem colt that a friend in the polo club bribed me to work on for a month and arrived on Sunday. Interestingly enough they wanted PNH practices to be used on him which is why they asked me despite me not have any formal qualifications. I made a promising start on Monday and established respect and trust, but am away looking after a friend's yearling that has gone down with African horse sickness. So for those of you with snow and slush don't complain, there is a nasty outbreak of the dreaded disease here at moment. Above that am busy organising a paperchase and gymkhana at the club in month, and involved in developing courses for a new horse management school at the biggest club in the land. So there is a lot to keep me busy and looking forward to sharing experiences with you all here.

Malcolm

Niek

hi malcolm welcome here

.

While i think researching how this new wave of horsemanship came to be i would like to say i personally wouldnt like to see my thoughts just put in book form

. I am sure others might agree or disagree but i think it would be wonderfull if you could inform us when the book is done and inform those you might have taken quotes from

eitherway welcome and i am curious to some photos of the polo ponies

Malcolm

Hi Niek

Don't worry, your thoughts are safe here. I am interested in some of the major historical figures that some of you might be lucky enough to have studied under or witnessed at some point. I am interested in balancing my point of view about Parelli, Anderson etc with others so that I can be as even handed as possible. That is why at the moment the RTTH and how people perceived it interests me. I will not quote anyone's views and what actually happened but want to broaden my own - if that makes sense.

Malcolm

PasoBaby_CarolU

Welcome Malcolm. I don't mind being quoted but like attribution. I think people should stand by their words - or not hit the submit button. We quote each other in here all the time, and I think it adds to the conversation and helps people go to someONE for clarity or more information.

To be honest, I have often thought that how people act on the Internet and in horse forums in particular would make a good dissertation for a psychology student. There is certainly plenty of material.

I am also writing a book on natural training of Paso Finos and make a point to attribute everything I can. Since it is a blend of natural and traditional methods it can get quite interesting where techniques come from.

Would you mind explaining what African Horse Sickness is? I have no idea and would like to learn. Is it Viral? Bacterial? What Vector? Symptoms? and Mortality rate... I certainly hope the best for your friend's colt.

My jury is still out on Polo. Living where I do I've never actually seen a Polo game. I've seen some film on TV and a segment on 60-minutes (I think) on a man who trains Polo ponies and what goes into it. I don't care for the headgear used on the horses, but realize that it isn't much different then many other sports with horses and especially work with horses that involves bits and various forms of nosebands. We have a big movement here for Horse Soccer, and I enjoy that, but would prefer the horses be ridden in a good jaquima instead of a bit, hackamore, or even a bitless bridle. I think more humane methods towards horses is evolving slowly....and not at the same speed in many areas of the world. But, I hope we'll get there eventually.

Welcome to the forum.

jackspark

Hey Malcolm, I have been to a polo match and it was the only time, in my life that I heard someone yell "Is there a doctor in the house?" Fast and furious is how I would characterize what I saw. I did get to go under the stadium and visit the horses afterward. Made a big impression on me as a young girl. Glad to have you here

karmikacres

Hi Malcolm

We would like to specifically inform Malcolm that we, specifically assert copyright protection on each and every post made here, anywhere else on the internet, on every private email whether sent to Malcolm or any other individual and on all content contained on our website or in our youtube videos in addition to any other product or words produced by us which may be found anywhere else.

Mike and Karen

learningthedance

Hi Malcolm!! Welcome to the group.

Hope Eidin joins you in testing the waters here. It's a GREAT group!!

Glad you found us.

No copyright order from me.

Feel free if there is anything worth feeling free about?? LOL

It's all good.

Malcolm

Thanks for the warm and otherwise welcomes.

African Horsesickness is here to let us know that having horses in Africa is not natural but Zebras are since they are immune to the disease. We vaccinate but cannot cover mutant and new strains of the virus. Luckily the yearling I have been taking care of contracted the heart not the lung form and had a 50-50 chance of making it but the lung form is 90% tickets. Another friend just lost a great horse in 24 hrs. The one I am nursing is pulling through but still very stiff so am giving Bute to keep her mobile otherwise they can shut down and contract impactions and so on. If there is more you want to know, see.

http://www.africanhorsesickness.co.za/about_ahs.asp

As far as polo goes, it can be pretty barbaric but the best players have to ride well and I see it as a challenge to help player's horsemanship improve. Although I am not a PNH person, the global impact of it has made people aware of a new gentler way and they are seeking it out. If you want to see the best players in the world having a ride off in Argentina you can look at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl...amp;feature=player_embedded#at=40

Of course they are a bit rough and nowhere perfect riders but that's the name of the game and they're near perfect players.

Most of our horses in polo are ex-racehorses and it gives them a second career which most of them love since it involves running. In a perfect world there would be no horse racing but then by banning it we would effectively order the genocide of the Thoroughbred.

I'll say more about ethics and copyright later, but I am here to talk horsemanship and not to poach anything.

Malcolm

Malcolm

Hi there Karen and Mike,

Am not sure what you are worried about. Here is a reasonable definiton of copyright.

becdubie

Welcome Malcom. We have people from every corner of the earth and can learn a lot from each other.

Would you care to share the topic of your book project? I'm guessing it has someting to do with horsemanship, but are you going to concentrate on anything in particular?

thelmanelle

Welcome Malcolm,
Actually, I am okay with the Polo Rescue i went to as they taught folks to play polo on horses that were retired Polo horses. They had 60 that they had and rotated out to play a match. It was a very short match. They used plastic polo sticks as I recall. If any thing got hit...it was the rider.

Plus, the folks at the event made sure the rider's stayed out of the horse's mouth or they were spoken to very loudly about the matter, publicly. So they hid nothing.

Welcome! Good luck with your book.

Malcolm

Hi Becky

Sure. It is a historical sociology of the new wave of horsemanship. I am interested in the biographies of significant individuals who have had an impact on the horse world and beyond. Over here in South Africa Monty Roberts and Pat Parelli have registered on the rigter scale. Buck Brannaman has had an indirect impact via the Horsewhisperer movie which made the most waves beyond the horse world although in the horse world here, Buck is known the least. The thing to remember is that I see that all of these things are good. I commenced learning about empathetic horsemanship through the work of Henry Blake when I set about living my childhood dream and starting my own colt 23 years ago when I had left home and got a job. This was before I had heard of Parelli or Roberts. He is now a retired old man at home living out his last Autumn. That was the beginning of an incredible journey for me and my old Kasha and Blake get all the credit for where I've got to but I've got a long way to go still.

http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Horses-Henry-Blake/dp/0943955793

http://www.amazon.com/Talking-Hor...lake/dp/0285629980/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Although insightful, Blake believed in telepathy and ESP and was an eccentric Englishman and not a celebrity so his ideas never had the impact in his own country that Roberts and Parelli had. They both were summoned to Buckingham Palace for their efforts and this was a highlight in their career. Buck B also shook hands with royalty when he shook hands with Prince Charles at Palm Beach. It was horses and Polo that gave him that honour. At my club we have Sbu Duma who went from humble stablehand to rubbing shoulders with princes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyoOOVNZ_kQ

http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=55551

Coincidently, the journalist that did the story referres to Outliers: The Story of Success by Malcolm Gladwell. That a bible in Parelli I have discovered. As Pat P says, if we pay attention to our horsemanship, and work hard at it, horses do this for us. They carry us from Zero to Hero as Pat P describes his life.

This is why I love this project. It is so full of hope. What I have found is that, for some reason, the line of questioning that explores the biographies and the differences of horsemanship styles provokes sensitivities and anger in some folk. Obviously there are fault lines between them, but if we don't know where the cracks are how can we fill them in?

Malcolm

PasoBaby_CarolU

Malcolm, I think there is no single one answer in horsemanship. There are many schools and methods and most get you where you want to go if you follow them. People argue because people do that about anything they feel passionate about, religion, politics, nationality. I think it is a good thing we feel passionate about our horses. It is what drives us to be students of the horse and to take this important step of considering our horse...most horse owners don't. Some don't even take the meat and potatoes step of CA, to learn what to do to train a horse. Most people just ride and that's all they want to do.

Even like our discussion of spurs...I am pretty sure that the vast majority of people who strap on a pair never consider what they do to the horse - beyond getting the horse to do what WE want.

becdubie

Sounds like an interesting project Malcolm.
Edited to add:
Is it

Malcolm

I guess you are right about most people Carol, and Bec is right that some do it quite well without much thought but, sadly, others very badly. Smokie Brannaman reckons that we should all "just ride". He has a point and I do and a lot more besides. I rode all weekend and am pleasantly tired.

About the different schools, I have taken it up in the Monty Roberts thread. About the new wave, I mean the last few decades and in particular the move away from conquering the horse to partnering the horse. Rarey and Beery (role models of Pat P) marketed their horsemanship and did well from it but they used the term "break" and "conquer" despite being relatively gentle for their time.

As much as we might not like Clinton A, he has a point about people wanting to learn from teachers with a personality we like. Similarly everywhere in life, including forums you have personalities you like and those that repel you. On another forum when I started raising these sorts of things I was seen as a troll, but in the end it came down to the personalities and charismatic hold of various horsemen.

I should add that last night we started watching Silversand. Steve Halfpenny studied under Parelli and has developed his own programme. It seems pretty good but seems not to depend on a flamboyant personality but from what I have heard of Clinton A is very gentle. Unlike Parelli, the Silversand franchise is in South Africa but the videos we were lent are old and the programme is called "natural horsemanship", now I see that the "natural" has been dropped.

http://www.silversand.com.au/

So in case anyone thinks I am a PNH basher I am not. Parelli has changed the horse world for the better I can really feel its influence from afar. Sometimes people who are too close or have been too close to something lose perspective.

Malcolm

PasoBaby_CarolU

I have Silversand's tapes also..and Dennis Reiss. Also a nice, gentle natural horseman. And, you know Parelli started out doing small 20-30 people clinics also. He got famous rather quickly because of his work and success with mules, but I think his marriage to Linda was really the biggest difference. With her background in education, she took what was a pretty disjointed read in his book, and turned it into a step-by-step educational program that people could follow. There is a big difference in learning math from a mathematician and learning it from a math teacher.

I think his advances in mass-marketing horsemanship came from the changes available in technology - and his personal charisma - more then from any 'new wave' in horsemanship. I say this because I was reading and studying John Lyons (1987) and Richard Shrake (1989) long before Parelli and my first Tour Stop. I also had been to a Ray Hunt-style clinician (don't remember his name) around 78, long before The Horse Whisperer came out.

I might add that all this coincided with the ballooning of the horse market as the Baby Boomers got their kids off to college and moved to the country with more time and money to spend on themselves. I would like to say that most people want to look for more humane methods, but I haven't really found that to be true. Most people are traditionalists and I find the 'natural' movement to be the exception rather then the rule.

Tigerlily

While 'personality' should not have anything to do with horsemanship, it does. just like ANY thing on the planet, we gravitate toward people we like, and distance ourselve from those we dont.

all this NH stuff has brought about a change for the better in the horse world. but most of the 'masters' are simply not available in mass to the public. were it not for video's and now dvd's....and better yet, streaming video online. most of us would not have the opportunity to learn from the 'best'. Saddly, this has had the opposite effect to many good horsemen, in that people think only the best make video's. there are lots of great people, available to study from in person, that dont have dvd's or books......and even more that dont teach. But then there are also many who teach who are not so good. as a student I was/am very aware of this fact. Quality instructors are few and far between in my area. So this movement, in the last 30ys, has brought even more knowlege to people who would otherwise not have the access to learn about a better way.

So in order to deliver this 'message' to the world, if you dont have a good personality, who will want to listen to what you have to say? It is part of marketing and part of theatre and part of entertainment as a whole. Offensive/boring/dry things, get.....bad reviews, no ticket sales, and people to change the channel. It is a fact of life, and a fact of death. for if it weren't, we would all be praying to go to Hell rather than Heaven. I think we have taken it a bit far, in the idolizing department.....but I wouldnt trade that, for having the info taken away from me.

Some people cannot stand Pat and Linda's personality, never mind horsemanship. They aren't for everyone. No One is.

Malcolm

Good points Carol. Historical context is everything. The old question of the "great man (now person)" or the "sea change" that floated his boat is never answered because it is usually both. The far and wide reach of the person to affect the world is what we mull over. And when it is a good change i am glad and of course the mainstream horse world rolls on, but what impresses me is the extent to which people are taking heed of NH or the importance of a gentler way to some degree. The ones that do are the ones that I like. Having said that, Steve Halfpenny dropped the word "Natural". I wonder if that is legal concern or what.

Too true about charisma Michelle. I have decided that if I was an insomniac I would prescribe myself Steve Halfpenny's Silversand videos. I found they really got me snoozing last night, as much as I like him. It's about bedtime, so might put on another!

Malcolm

Tigerlily