Hendra Virus

Clarissa · Hendra Virus

Well it's struck again.

A property at Rockhampton Queensland has a Hendra Virus outbreak. It's been all over the news here for 2 wks or so.

But today comes the distressing news that yet another vet has contracted the virus while treating a horse on the property before they realised is was Hendra virus.

The poor guy is in intensive care having been flown to Brisbane today. If he dies, that will make 3 vets dead from the virus.

All because we can no longer shoot the bloody flying foxes (fruit bats) that carry the darned disease. They breed in their hundreds of thousands & develop massive communities but we can't keep their numbers in check because they are "endangered" native fauna!! When they are hanging (roosting) in trees over horse yards they pee & poop into the water troughs, feed bins & just onto the grass that the horses graze. Apparently the disease is in the pee of pregnant females.

Years ago we used to get rid of them from around stock yards as not only do they deficate everywhere but they regurgitate all manner of weed seeds in a slimey froth which grow & can be toxic to stock. We either shot them with a shotgun or if we had a fire fighter water pump we would use the high pressure hose to force them out of the trees above the yards & send them down to the creeks to roost.

But the worst thing is the government really hasn't done the right thing regarding bio security in this instance just like in past outbreaks. My Mother was telling me her friend was talking to the lady who worked on the stud & who was put into hospital to receive injections of the supposed antiviral that would stop her getting the disease. She said they didn't do the right bio secrutiy with her & didn't keep records of how she fared after the daily injections (it's still experimental). She has got sick from the injections but they won't take any notice of her & told her to leave the hospital!

Now the vet she called to treat the mares that eventually died is really sick with the virus. He will probably die with the next few days & others may still develop the disease yet too. There were 35 people who either worked on the stud or were directly involved in treating the sick horses. The gov't says there has never been a case of human to human transmission of the hendra virus so no need for bio security off the stud. They said that about swine flu too!

eva

What a story !

Too crazy for words...

Kiparra

Its a big worry. and we thought the government was meant to protect us from such things and help reduce/erradicate it.

PasoBaby_CarolU

How scary! How do the vets contract the disease? Do livestock get it and then the vet gets it from treating the animals? I think it would be wise to keep all water and feed troughs out from under places where they roost if that is how the disease is passed.

A friend stapled chicken wire to her rafters to keep birds out of them. Works very well.

In a past life, I was a biosafety officer. I think if I were a vet there I'd wear protective clothing. Darn scary!

sarah

This is indeed scary. And Australia is being typically laid back in its approach to how it handles this. We have not had a really, really big "bio" scare in the last fifty years. What short memories we have!

from http://www.csiro.au/science/Hendra-Virus.html

Introduction
In September 1994, a prominent Queensland horse trainer Mr Vic Rail, his stablehand, and most of his horses fell ill to a sudden and mysterious illness.
Within several days, the trainer and 14 horses were dead. As the Queensland Department of Primary Industries (QDPI) collected specimens from affected race horses and submitted them for testing at CSIRO’s Australian Animal Health Laboratory (AAHL) in Geelong, Victoria, newspapers ran with headlines like 'Death virus cancels races, threatens Cup'.
AAHL's diagnostic team isolated and identified what proved to be a new virus that had not been reported anywhere else in the world.
Researchers initially named it equine morbillivirus but further genetic analysis showed that the most appropriate classification of the virus was as a new genus within the Paramyxoviridae family.
The name Hendra is now used, after the name of the Brisbane suburb in which the outbreak occurred.
The strength of AAHL's capabilities was clearly demonstrated by the manner in which the infectious agent was isolated, the disease reproduced in horses and the virus eventually identified using electron microscopy and gene sequence analysis.
With the cause of the disease outbreak known, AAHL researchers developed diagnostic tests. QDPI, Queensland Health and AAHL tested more than 2 500 horse samples and 150 human samples, not finding any new cases.

Further cases (current at August 2009)
In the last 15 years, seven people have been confirmed to have been infected with Hendra virus, and three have died as a result of the disease. In addition to the initial case in 1994, a farmer from Mackay died in 1995 and a Brisbane vet passed away in August 2008.
There have also been 12 clusters of Hendra virus infection recorded in horses since the virus was first identified.
Authorities are continuing to respond to the current Hendra virus incident at Cawarral, near Rockhampton, Queensland, which has affected both people and horses.
As a national facility, AAHL is required to provide diagnosis of emergency animal diseases, which includes:
index case confirmation
national emergency response capability
use of accredited and validated tests.
This has meant the facility has been actively involved in each recorded Hendra virus incident.

Research findings
Unlike other Paramyxoviridae viruses which tend to be host-specific, Hendra can infect more than one animal species.
Scientists believe fruit bats are the natural ‘host’ of the virus, meaning the virus is carried by bats but has little effect on them. However, when transmitted to humans and horses, the virus can be lethal.
AAHL researchers were awarded the CSIRO Chairman’s Medal in recognition of their work in identifying Hendra virus.
AAHL research shows that horses, cats and guinea pigs can excrete virus in their urine. The virus isn't carried on the breath of horses. This helps to explain why Hendra virus isn’t highly contagious.
The means by which Hendra virus infected the horses at Hendra and Mackay isn't known. Infected bat urine, an aborted bat foetus or reproductive fluids could have been involved.
In 1995 the AAHL research team was awarded the CSIRO Chairman's Medal in recognition of its work in identifying the new virus.

Continuing research
Research on Hendra virus and Nipah virus, a closely related virus first discovered in 1999, continues at AAHL.
A major research breakthrough occurred in 2005 when an international team, including AAHL researchers, identified the part of the cell membrane to which both Hendra and Nipah virus attach in order to enter and infect the cell
This discovery accelerated research in many different areas, including the development of improved diagnosis, vaccine, and anti-viral drug targets.
Recently, the group at AAHL in collaboration with US scientists evaluated a potential human vaccine to provide protection against both Nipah and Hendra virus.
The results of this research, published in July this year, represents significant progress towards the development of a human vaccine to be used in the event of a another natural outbreak, a laboratory accident, or deliberate misuse.
McEachern JA, Bingham J, Crameri G, Green DJ, Hancock TJ, Middleton D, Feng YR, Broder CC, Wang LF, Bossart KN. 2008. A recombinant subunit vaccine formulation protects against lethal Nipah virus challenge in cats. Vaccine. 26(31):3842-52. [external link]
Further research is planned to develop improved high throughput screening tests to evaluate Nipah antivirals, and three different therapeutic approaches to combat Hendra virus including:
a human/animal vaccine
antibody therapy
small molecule drugs.
Scientists at AAHL are studying bat ecology and the bat immune system to determine how viruses, such as Hendra, maintain themselves in bats and how they ‘spill over’ into humans and other animals.
Research to understand more about zoonotic diseases is also being undertaken, with a focus on the interaction of bats and viruses and identifying and characterising new and emerging infectious agents.

Biocontainment
CSIRO scientists who undertake research with Hendra virus and Nipah virus must work at Biosafety Level 4 (BSL4) - the highest biosecurity level. This requires scientists to wear fully encapsulated suits with their own air supply.
AAHL provides a unique resource for Australia and its capacity to work with deadly Biosafety Level 4 disease agents is arguably the best in the world.

Watch the ABC Catalyst episode on Hendra virus [external link].

Clarissa

Sarah you said Australia hasn't had a big bio scare in the last 50 yrs but have you already forgotten Equine Influenza!!

The vet who contracted the virus this time round is in a coma now so that's probably the end for him.

Some other stud workers have also tested positive & have been flown to the same Brisbane hospital.

Several horses on the Rocky stud have been put down during the last 2 days after their tests came back positive to the virus. The thing is no-one is sure that horses catch it from each other or even if the horse carries & exudes the virus at a later date.

During the previous outbreak, one horse recovered from the virus & some vets wanted to keep it alive for testing but CSIRO said it had to be put down anyway.

sarah

Clarissa, I should have been more specific...

Australia handles all bio things like this because they have forgotten how many people things like this can affect. The EI outbreak did not affect Joe Citizen - it only affected horse people. The general community says "oh, that's awful", and goes back to their everyday life with nary a backwards glance.

We have such a laid back "we're so far from anyone" attitude that they think that we can't be badly affected by anything.

For example, on the Friday, a week prior to the Narrabri and Warwick horse events in August 2007 (I think they were campdrafts or something), the ABC radio Rural Report had an item that a stallion at the Eastern Creek Quarantine facility, recently imported from Japan, where it was known that there was an outbreak of EI, was showing symptoms of EI. I remember talking to my hubby about how "Australia is going to stuff this up".

A week later, the Narrabri event was on. At about 1pm on the Saturday it was announced on the radio that EI was out of quarantine and into the horse community in Sydney and that all events were cancelled and everyone was in lockdown.

I called a friend who was at Narrabri to say what was happening and to tell the organisers to contact the DPI. She did that, and the organisers still let people leave. That one incident of people being chronically lax when the information was available and rules were in place, infected horses in NSW, VIC and Queensland. Other places that had events and who let people leave, did similar damage. It resulted in the whole of Australia being locked down when it could have been much better contained if people had taken the warnings and rules more seriously.

I cannot tell you how many horses were moved under the cover of darkness in just our district alone. When I called the DPI, they were powerless to do anything about it - they lacked the manpower and they simply had to rely on people doing the right thing. Too many naive Australian's just don't believe the rules apply to them, because nothing like that will ever happen to Australia.

I don't know what it will take for Australians to take these things seriously. Even the swine flu hasn't stopped them from recklessly sharing their germs.

Hoping that the vet can be one of the success stories with the Hendra virus. Last I heard, his coma was an induced one, so that may be a positive sign.

Scarlet Belle

I can't believe that they will not allow you to get rid of the bats causing the problem? The vets are dying while trying to assist the animals? This is crazy.
And we thought the snakes and crocs were bad!
Sonya

PasoBaby_CarolU

If that article is accurate about what is known about the Hendra virus pathway, then I can understand them not allowing the bats to be exterminated. We don't kill ALL birds to eliminate the pathway for WNV, or kill rodents to get rid of the plague, etc. They would need to know a certain population of bats carried the disease.

But, that doesn't explain why horse farms don't seal rafters so bats can't nest in the barns and urinate in the water sources.

It is sad about the veterinarians though. I would think biosafety precautions and protective clothing would be appropriate.

oztinks

This article from last years outbreak says it all
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/n...ter/2008/11/02/1225560616173.html

Clarissa

Paso, most of our studs are in open paddocks on quite big properties. The paddocks have trees & bush in them where flying foxes hang in their 1000's to each tree. They move roosting sites every so often once they have destroyed those trees.

Flying foxes are big bats, their bodies being 9-12" long with a wing span of up to 2'6". It's impossible to stop them setting up a new roosting site, but it is possible to move them on quickly. High pressure water jets are very effective at moving them on. They hate getting wet, flying or being disturbed in the daylight & if it is done every morning & evening for a week or so they will move on.

But by law, people aren't allowed to disturb them as they are native fauna! Many colonies number 50,000 or more. When they fly over here in the early evening they darken the sky for several minutes. The colony that flies over here comes from near Gympie where it's camp is by the Mary River just out of town. They fly down to the Sunshine Coast about 50/100K's away where there are good fruit farms. But flying foxes will easily fly 150k's for a good feed of tree blossom or fruit just ready to harvest.

When they fly over I get under cover so I don't get splooted on!

PasoBaby_CarolU

Kiparra

Among the general thought of many Australians that 'it will never happen to us', i think the government lacks that 'prior and proper preparation' that is often so much needed.
They seem to wait until something happens before they make a move. I know that you cant be prepared for every individual disease but perhaps they need more precaution.
Im sure they are doing what they can? But in the meantime people and animals are suffering and we are powerless to help.

Chablis

Just received this sad news...

Clarissa

Being proactive & removing the threat is still the best way to protect against HeV!

Removing the flying foxes from near horse paddocks should be allowed. They don't have to be killed as it is easy enough to move them on. Although so called "experts" don't seem to be able to do it!! They have tried all manner of lame devices like whistles, hanging foil strips, ferimones, banging tin cans, etc.

But then we know what an 'expert' is.......X is an unknown quantity & spurt is a drip under pressure!!

Bats hate getting wet & hate being touched & high pressure water jets do both very well to cause them to move house. Yet wetting the bats is proclaimed to be inhumane! They might catch cold & die! WTF!!!

What about vets, other people & horses dying ???? Isn't that inhumane too??

But it's OK to bulldoze 1000's of acres of costal & rain forest for new suburbs thereby removing the natural habitat of many species including the dratted bats.

sarah

Very sad news, indeed.

The article posted by Chablis is indicative of the general attitude to bio-security in Australia. Apparently, we learned nothing from EI.

Kiparra

I just heard today about the vet dying. Their poor family.

It seems silly doesnt it Clarissa that some things are ok but others are not?
I mean, the bats get wet when it rains anyway!!
Talk about out of balance.

Chablis

I agree Clarissa, Kip and Sarah.

joti26

How awful! Had no idea about this virus until I read this.

Clarissa

On tonight's news they said there is another property (at Bowen) quarantined due to HeV. A horse died there weeks ago & samples were sent to the QLabs for testing but they didn't test for HeV!!

Then a horse died last week & because there is already HeV on the loose now, all samples are being tested for it. Guess what....the horse died of HeV! So now they say the other horse died of it too since it was on the same property but the labs haven't kept the sample so it can't be tested again.

All the while many people including the public have been exposed to the virus because this property is a riding school.

Luckily the vet who attended both deaths took biosecurity precautions....luckily!

The girl who owns/runs the riding school was looking very sad when being interviewed. I guess she's just coming to the realization that many of her horses might have to be put down if they test positive, even if they aren't sick. They looked well cared for too.

Apparently there is a vaccine ready to produce already. However the pharmaceutical company which can develop the vaccine said it wouldn't pay them to go ahead as there wouldn't be a big enough market!

WTF???

Clarissa

Tonight's TV news brings the sad news that 2 more properties adjoining the one I mentioned in my previous post are in quarantine at Bowen. They have had deaths that are now being attributed to HeV.

Of all the people who have caught HeV only 1 young lady has recovered. It is over a year & she is still learning to walk & talk properly again. Her body had almost completely shut down. Medical people still don't know why she survived. She was a vet nurse working with the vet who died last year.

Looks like this virus is most virulent during flying fox 'foaling' season! My concern is whether it will only occur under trees where the bats are foaling or whether the females are carrying the virus for a few days at foaling time. If the 2nd is the case, then they could piss it out anywhere they happen to fly to for food as well as where they roost.

That would mean that all horses in Australia should be vaccinated for it, as bats fly to pretty much the whole of the country although at this stage it seems as though the virus needs tropical conditions.

Considering the pharmaceutical company says there won't be a big enough demand for them to make the vaccine, it seems to me there is a lot of underestimating going on.

I am a tad concerned because my place is under the flight path for the local Gympie population which head to the coast for a feed each night. On their way down & back some often stop off here for a quick top-up from my fruit trees & palm trees which are all in heavy fruit right now. The good thing is that I don't usually allow my horses to stay in the house yard at night although Sonny does live in here from time to time when I am doing a project with him. In anycase he is often in here during the day & he could possibly graze under a tree that had bats hanging in it during the previous night.

There are no bat food trees down in the horse paddock other than the flowering gums which are everywhere in the Australian bush. Most eucalypts are in flower right now too & I do hear bats fighting over the blossom nector particularly in the early hours of the morning as they top-up while returning to their camps on the Mary River up near Gympie.

It's all a bit disconcerting actually. It's bad enough when there are ground borne hazzards for horses which we choose to control or not, but airborne hazzards are just way out of our control.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Clarissa, what is the natural predator for the bats? Couldn't you make a 'scarecrow' type replica to keep the bats from landing in your trees? I'm thinking maybe a plastic owl or two?

I can't imagine them NOT making a vaccine. Australia has a huge $$ horse market, just like the U.S. It's not like most people wouldn't vaccinate. I think here they develop a vaccine for just about anything, saw one in a magazine yesterday for shingles.

We'll keep you all in our prayers.

sarah

Clarissa, I am not surprised, but still appalled, by this whole thing. I wonder what it will take for the authorities to take this seriously?

Carol, the horse market in Australia is nowhere near the scale of the US horse market. We have only 20 million people (that is the population of LA alone!), and very few of them have horses. Horses in Australia are generally the domain of the super rich or farmers. Even if you go to a big horsey area, those of us with ponies for pleasure are really few and far between.

Bats can't see. They "see" by radar, so a simple owl decoy in a tree won't work. You need to have something that will emit a frequency that will "push" them away from the area. That is what makes it so hard to get rid of them.

Clarissa, I wonder if one of those (I want to write ridiculous) pest control devices that are supposed to keep mice away would do anything? If you could plug it into an outside powerpoint, it might have some effect, even if only over a small area. Then you could at least put your horses where the bats aren't overnight. Might be worth a go.

joti26

I was going to suggest a sonic device too, might be worth a try.
I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this. We need to find you a bat expert, there must be some humane way to discourage them humanely.

Clarissa

Yes I could become a millionaire if I could discover a humane fruit bat(flying fox) repellent!

There are 2 main stumbling blocks :-

1. Fruit Bats (flying foxes) are protected in Australia & people have gone to jail for chasing them from commercial orchards;

2. Nothing frightens them while they are in flight it seems.

I knew a lady who was a PNH student at Beerwah ((Briar Spilane) any aussies remember her?). Together with her husband, they ran a commercial orchard growing lychees, mangoes, avo's, & other tropical fruit. They had a permit to shoot the scout bats that search for food sources ahead of the main body of the colony. The shooting was under very strict controls etc, but eventually the town grew & arrived on their back fence at which time they had to stop shooting the bats.

The next year they were completely eaten out & had to turn to growing strawberries for a very poor living. They sold the farm after another year or 2 & it became yet another housing development after all the beautiful fruit trees were bulldozed.

During those intervening years they fought for the rights of commercial orchardists in the courts against the EPA, RSPCA, National Parks & wildlife dep't, animal cruelty people, etc. Tom ended up in jail for shooting bats & not paying the fines. A farmer way up north also got a very hefty fine for using overhead electric fence mesh to catch the bats in flight over the fruit trees. Totally enclosing an orchard with mesh works a bit but at an horendous cost. Flying foxes can crawl across the ground & down under mesh to get to the trees. They will eat strawberries & other fruit like tomatoes too.

Those & many other methods had been legal to use but as towns' people start living closer to the farms they see what they think is barbaric & cruel treatment of the bats. So those people kick up a stink.

Flying foxes on the wing are extremely difficult to disuade once they know food is in a certain location. They are easier to move when they are roosting in trees but that doesn't help when they go foraging.

Sonic devices are failing completely. I have seen several in operation with little effect to the bats. I have seen them in vineyards, orchards, tomato & strawberry fields, etc. The devices are not permitted in built up areas so I couldn't use one here.

The flight path of the Gympie colony is about 3-4 miles wide at this part of the Mary River valley. There's no way anyone could stop them from flying over when they are coming over in such massive numbers each night.

Flying foxes (as opposed to our other bats) have quite good eye sight & night vision, but they do also make very good use of their amazing sonar & smell. I also think they have infra red(sp) capabilities. They have very few preditors. Snakes might get a few young left hanging on branches by the mother at night. Hawks, owls, crows, etc might get a few too, but in general that wouldn't make a dint in the massive numbers. Around these parts a colony can number 1-200,000

In some areas they number 1,000,000

Australia doesn't have many terrestrial 'top of the food chain' preditors anymore. Certainly none that can take such large prey on the wing at night. That's why the blighters are in such huge numbers! Disease seems to be their biggest killer. That & the weather at birth time. But then there are all the bloody do-gooders who go out & bring the fallen babies in to save their lives!

I'm just waiting with baited breath for some do-gooder to contract HeV after being bitten!!!

That'll cause some swift action from the law makers

I think for now it's just going to be a matter of pure luck as to whether horses in areas away from colony roosts avoid HeV. And anyone with horses near colonies should move their horses asap. Certainly the law makers have little sympathy for horses, their owners & carers on the whole. That was very evident during the Equine Influenza outbreak. It wasn't until the taxes from race betting stopped flowing that gov't really got off their behinds to do something.

The racing industry does have strength but they would be less impacted by HeV these days with most stables being under cover. Even though it was a TB breeding farm where the latest deaths occured, they weren't 'big name' people with a 'big name' stud so therefore not very important.

joti26

Gosh Clarissa you are already an expert. I just wonder how any people have to die before anyone takes this seriously-note I said people as tragicly horse deaths isn't going to have any impact from what you say.

Playenatural

It seems to me a vaccine would have a three fold benefit. Protect the horses, the humans and the bats. Wow a balance needs to be found between humans and bats. I watch the same thing with wild horses/humans/cattle and wolves/humans in my own back yard. There has to be an answer, but politics seem to take too much a lead.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Here they net the trees to keep the birds from eating the fruit. Can't they do that to protect their fruit trees?

sarah

Thanks for clarifying about flying foxes, Clarissa! I didn't know that!

I learn something new everyday!

Clarissa

Kiparra

crazy crazy crazy.

Clarissa why arent you in government?! lol.

The government couldnt give a rats about the leisure horse owners. they dont get concerned until it affects them.

And as for the vaccine. i think anyone would take it as not only horse owners are at risk but everyone!

PasoBaby_CarolU

This article from Australia was included in a news breaf from The Horse. thought you'd be interested.

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/27_2900_ENA_HTML.htm

This is one of the links from that article. There does appear to be quite a bit of research into it:

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/cps/rde/dpi/hs.xsl/4790_14761_ENA_HTML.htm

I thought I'd highlight this one paragraph. It does sound like help is on the way:

Kiparra

Even though it is a relatively 'rare' disease, if they developed a vaccine just for Hendra i think many people would still get their horses vaccinated for it because it is so aggressive. i know i certainly would! i wouldnt like to take the chance especially if it starts to spread.

Clarissa

Well it's Hendra season again!

The news is talking about 1 horse dead & 1 vet exposed this week but on the Aquis (I think it is) website there have been 3 horses die & 3 vets exposed & a total of aprox 20 people exposed to the virus this week.

However no-one will be given the experimental vaccine at this stage because none were highly exposed with body fluids from the horses that died.

It's unfortunate for the 1 horse that died out at Beaudesert because it's owners lived remote & sent the horse to a stud nearer the town so infected a whole other stud & a whole other set of people too.

It means both properties are in quarantine lockdown.

There must be many other hroses that die without being diagnosed because many people either don't know or care their horse is sick or has died or won't notify the authorities for fear of being quarantined!

The trouble with being quarantined is that if a positive result comes back for any of the living horses they MUST be euthanised. most unfortunate for a horse that isn't actually sick!

I hope the vaccine is successful because I think I would get it for my horses because in the summer months I have bats fly over every night & also feed here in my garden. They eat the mangoes & palm seeds & roost a few hours too in the palm trees & the horses also eat the fallen fruit so they are grazing right under trees that bats are peeing out of. That's how the virus gets into horses apparently.

Chablis

I saw a dead bat on someone's car windscreen yesterday, and I have to admit, I freaked out!

Unfortunately, quite a few bat populations seem to be migrating down the East Coast that we haven't had here before..

Clarissa

Yet more horses dead today, 9 more people exposed, more properties in quarantine lockdown & another 2 vets exposed.

Some people are pushing for fruit bat colonies around horse properties to be shot or moved on but that’s just such a politically incorrect idea no-one will put their name to it. Trouble is, this is a newish virus that has now become a seasonal thing every year. There have always been horses housed or living under massive trees that were also roosts for fruit bats. So something has changed. People are saying it’s because we are infiltrating the bush with houses or clearing the bush for housing & acreage developments, but the bats have always been living close to us anyway. Or rather we have always moved onto land close to where bats usually live.

They say each incident is unrelated but they are all in a line stretching about 75k’s & I would say they are related because the one colony of bats probably flies over that route each night & has infected every property under it’s path. It’s just waiting for a horse to pick it up while eating or drinking.

There is something else that has changed. This virus has mutated & become adept at crossing the species barrier. It just needed to find the right vector, the horse. Australia is the highest horse owning population worldwide with every second acreage holding at least 1 horse, not to mention all the studs & working properties of larger acreages.

Clarissa

Yet another outbreak on another horse farm in a different location but still along the same river system. So yet more vets, horses & people have been exposed & horses pts.

‘They’ say there is no connection between the outbreaks but I can’t help but see that the same colony of bats is responsible because the outbreaks are all in a line stretching from the mountains to the crop growing areas behind the gold Coast. Perhaps if that colony was investigated & tested the scientists might find the source & deal with it appropriately rather than continue to expose heaps of vets, people, other horses & farm animals. Currently horse owners in those parts are being asked to change management practices to avoid having horses eating from the ground or open air pastures.

Obviously those making these statements have never owned a horse or have the slightest idea about keeping large numbers of horses.

Bio-security Australia & AQUIS are being cajoled into bringing forward the release of the vaccine to 2012. However they are now arguing over whether to self regulate vaccination within the horse industry while others say it should be mandatory.

I am not one to vaccinate willy nilly but I would vaccinate if I stay here due to being under the flight path of the main Gympie flying fox colony & knowing first hand that they regularly graze on my trees. Of course it would be better to know if that colony was a carrier of the virus to know for sure if I had to vaccinate rather than just subject my horse’s immune systems adhoc to this virulent virus.

thebundychick

The virus is 5 hours away from me, and the property Sante is on, is surrounded by fruit trees.

I'd vaccinate in a heart beat. I'm terrified. I don't think he'd survive another virus

thelmanelle

This is awful.

thebundychick

So, QLD have a compulsory Euthanasia policy with the Hendra virus.

Although I'm in NSW, I would say we have teh same policy.

So. 75% of horses actually survive the virus, to be PTS anyway.

I just can't deal with that.

Clarissa

Yes if one of mine got it & got over it, I would run away with them to the mountains!

Bugga the biosecurity

On a much more sobber note. This morning I discovered all of my fully ripe special breed truss cherry tomatoes missing off the bushes I am growing in tubs on my verandah this year. Then I saw the sloppy sploot of bat poo squirted across the floor & railings

AAAHHHHhhhhhhh I have visitors coming for lunch tomorrow & I wanted those tomatoes for a salad. I was leaving them to fully ripen on the bush for best flavour. Every tomato with any colour was gone.

Just what I need is bloody flying foxes feeding right at my back door & sh!tting right where the horses wait for me to throw carrots down to them.

They were already in the trees already this evening at dusk as I finished feeding the horses. They were thieving whatever they could get their bloody mouths around from the vegie garden. Now I also know why my roma tomatoes seem to disappear right before they get properly ripe. Also missing are all the chillies, capsicums, beans & peas, basically anything that fruits has been stolen. Also I now think that’s why many of my fruiting vegies never seem to set fruit. The flowers are being eaten.

What if I eat vegies or greens that have been splooted on??

Spitfire

Hendra has hit a property 10 minutes from me.

thebundychick

where abouts are you??

Clarissa

Oh yes there has been a horse die up near Mareba behind the Nthrn Qld tablelands on the Blazing Saddles dude ranch horse riding place. The other 30 odd horses are in quarantine along with all the people who work there.

There are millions of bloody bats up there! But the frightening thing is that where it was previously contained within the feeding route of the one colony of bats southwest of Brisbane, it has now shown up up north too. Which means it could appear anywhere & that all bat colonies must be carrying the disease.

Must be up near OldMacDonalds place too. I didn't know spitfire lived up that way too but there you go.

I have decided to cut all the palm fruit bunches off my trees this weekend before they rippen & bring in the bats en mass. I don't know what I'll do when the gum trees start to flower in a month or so. The bats sceech, fight & squabble all bloody night around here when the trees are in flower.

I know it's their normal feed supply & I should not complain because we are taking over their forests but I just wish they would leave their horrible nasty diseases at home.

Spitfire

Yes she does. She is east of the outbreak (more coastal) but one of her horses was sold to the trail riding company next door to the outbreak.

Scary thought of the day: I was going to take one of my horses to that area on Sunday, and ride BEHIND Blazing Saddles, as part of an endurance conditioning ride. The only reason I didn't is because we ended up having something else moved to that day, so I figured I'd go another weekend. The next day, horse dies there of Hendra... LUCKY escape for me!

Chablis

Spitfire, I'm sorry to hear it.

Clarissa, I'm assuming you are just being facetious re running away with your horse and ignoring biosecurity?

Below are some Hendra links that might be useful for those in Qld and NSW (yes, it's spread to NSW as well now):

http://www.eques.com.au/EQforum/showthread.php?t=7952

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/documen.../What-is-Hendra-virus-Oct2010.pdf

becdubie

Oh ladies...this sounds so scary. We had our that herpes break out here int he US this spring, but this sounds much more scary.

Are your horses in "closed herds"? Meaning can they touch other horses over fences or anything?

Spitfire

Yes, our horses can sniff horses from two bordering properties

thebundychick

I seriously don't know why they feel the need to euthanise a horse even after it has survived the virus.

Personally - I'd seriously consider doing a runner

Spitfire

They do so because they don't know much about the virus - the survivor could be incubating the virus and act as a carrier. They can't take the risk. It has been likened to Ebola - it's very, very scary indeed.

thebundychick

But the horse survives, recovers, and they kill it. I mean - why not take blood, why not learn from it, By the time the horse has been tested and found with Hendra, he's already spread it - its already been & gone.

It just sucks.

They were testing horses for Hendra at Randwick - round 1 testing came back negative.

Clarissa

Nope Chablis it’d be a case of catch me if you can!

I think they are crazy putting down horses that recover from Hendra because that is their source of antibodies for antivenine for horses. So far they have only developed a dead antivenine for people & not paid the slightest attention to the needs of the horses. The best antibodies will come from a horse that has survived. They didn’t even take antibodies from the grey mare that survived it down south of Bris last year.

I was worried about EI when it was around but few horses died from that just got bad flu for a while. But this is a different kettle of fish. Trouble is there’s no way of knowing how many horses are recovering from it because not all herds of horses are checked everyday. A sick horse may escape attention if not too bad. It’s only when the horse is about to fall down that people seem to be noticing it. There could be lots of horses getting it & recovering. Where a horse was reported as having it the other herd members are being blood sampled.

Becky, Most of the properties where a horse got infected have their herds running in paddocks as is normal practise in Australia. We don’t have a lot of boarding barns but we do have concentrated areas where there are lots of studs such as Thoroughbred studs & racing stables & spelling properties that keep their horses in smaller single horse paddocks/yards. It’s doesn’t seem to be spread horse to horse at this stage (I think).

One of the suggestions was to fence off trees that attract fruit bats!! Crrraazzy baaaby!! Fancy fencing off most of the bushland of Australia

because all the gum trees are about to flower & it will be a big flowering this year having been so wet then all of a sudden so dry. Or fencing off all the trees on your property which won’t leave anywhere for the horses or better still having to cut a few down to make a clearing with no trees on it, then having the bats fly over from trees on this side to trees on that side & sploot on that patch of ground anyway.

Those people who make these suggestions are really so far removed from the situation it’s not funny. Like the suggestion not to feed fruit bat attracting food to horses like fruit & vegies!!! What tha?!?!? Do they think the bats come down out of the trees & compete with the horses for their dinner???

imagele

Clarissa

One of the things that I am wondering about regarding this virus is which end of the elementry tract the virus is coming from.

Bats eat their food then often spew it back up again or spew up the seeds all over their food source...or your car....or whatever. That vomit contains stomach acids, enzymes & normal viruses that bats carry. Those acids are what eats car duco.

I am wondering whether the virus is maybe in the vomit & the bat is vomiting it up because it is making the bat sick. The bat may have picked up the virus while grazing on some human produced food like sprayed crops, then some process happened inside the bat to cause a normal virus they usually carry to mutate into Hendra in the presence of hormone spray for example.

Originally the thinking was that it was from the urine of a pregnant bat but there doesn't seem to have been much work on that theory.

mmmmm

imagele

Clarissa,

Something I read today indicated that it can come from the stuff they regurgitate as well as urine. Seems like it survives all the way through their system. We were lucky for a long time in being able to avoid having to deal with something like this on a large scale, seems our luck has run out now.

I just read this article -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-0...a-virus-taskforce-meeting/2793666

Some politicians really need to grow a brain.

How on earth would you remove all flying foxes from populated areas or shoot them all ? And then how would you stop others from coming into that area ?

I also just found out that the Lyssa virus is very similar to rabies, and that is in the flying fox colonies down here in Victoria. Lovely

. At least you have to be bitten to be exposed to that one. Flying foxes are now officially on my list of animals NOT to touch - along with snakes and spiders.

On a brighter note - there has been an echidna sitting outside my front door all afternoon. It is a big one and it is giving the cats some major conniptions while they try to work out what it is.

Clarissa

How can we possibly avoid this virus? A horse at Boondall which is a northern Brisbane suburb was PTS from Hendra today. Then up at Hervey Bay another was PTS today also.

The thing I noticed about the aerial footage of the Hervey Bay paddock was that it was totally bare of trees which means the bats must have just flown over & splooted or vomited as they flew over.

Obviously it doesn’t matter whether the paddock is clear or treed, if bats fly over your land, your horses are at risk. How far away does a person have to send their horses to get away from this virus? There are bats everywhere in Qld, even out west.

As the guy being interviewed on the TV said today “Obviously there is something different happening with the bats this year” NO BLOODY JOKE???

Sheeesh how many brain cells & how much gov’t money did it take to work that gem out?

thebundychick

They lost one at Lismore as well

Chablis

thebundychick

Beleive me. If mine survived hendra I'd be up in the hills with clarissa!!

Clarissa

Well I got the loan of a very effective tool over the last few days to trim all my palm trees. It is this extremely sharp pull saw blade on a very long handle & boy o boy does it cut through branches like butter!

I spent the whole day pruning everything in sight. If it wasn’t nailed down & bats might like it, it got it’s head cut off!!!

I’m VERY sore down my back & shoulders now but there’s nothing much left except the actual gum trees for the bats to eat here now. And I do have a huge mess to clean up yet with branches & palm leaves & palm nut bunches laying everywhere. Not a problem! I am happy to walk around them forever if it means reducing the risk of those blighters pooping here.

thebundychick

I read a story on the news about a guy who hacked down all his fruit trees, every single last one - chopped them all down in order to better his horses chances.

Good on him :D

Edit: Found the link http://www.couriermail.com.au/new...epen/story-e6freoof-1226097816198

Spitfire

Hendra has now been confirmed to be present in a dog - so we have a cross-species virus now (more then the host-intermediate-human species). The dog has been PTS. It is policy that any animal testing positive to Hendra antibodies - symptomatic or asymptomatic - is destroyed. No ANDS. No IFS. No BUTS.

Clarissa

HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM !!

A working dog belonging to the stud that had some horses die of Hendra has been diagnosed with same virus. It will be pts even though it seems healthy & fit & not exhibiting any symptoms or signs other than the blood test that revealed that at some point it had been in contact with the virus.

NO SH!T MARTHA????

Didn’t that stud have horses die of Hendra? Wouldn’t that be the obvious contact point? Does that also mean that every dog on every other property that has had the virus on it will also have to be pts due to being in contact with the virus?

edit to add:- just saw spitfire's post which came in while I was writing this one! lol

thebundychick

Clarissa

Bundy said

Spitfire

What you fail to realise is that they don't know enough about the virus yet to RISK any animal being a carrier and shedding the virus left, right and center.

The fact the virus was found in a dog indicates that it is either mutating to infect across previously immune species (a very scary thought) or we potentially have a previously undiscovered carrier of the virus. Bad news for dogs everywhere.

Clarissa, hate the break it to you but Blazing Saddles (where the horse died up here) doesn't have ANY fruit trees. OR bat colonies. It is in the middle of the desert scrub, basically.

Also it has been suggested that when the bats are stressed (times of extreme weather, being shot at, being hosed...) they shed more of the virus. Just sayin'...

thebundychick

And thats fine, but by the time they realize the animal has the virus, he's already done as much damage as he's going to do. he's passed it on to everyone he can possibly pass it on to. (everyone that has come unknowingly come in contact with him) Killing him is ridiculous.

Incubate them. Isolate them. Use them as equine pin cushions.

If my horse got Hendra - I would OFFER him to the vets as a test tube / crash test / pin cushion WHATEVER IT TOOK to make sure that he stayed alive and was returned to me, when he had served his purpose.

Spitfire

But that's it, it is unknown wether the animal would ever be "rid" of the virus.

Clarissa

Spitfire

Clarissa

Yeh I know how easy it is to NOT see them! I was walking around my verandahs (without the lights on) one night in late autmumn when all of a sudden the palm tree right beside the railing exploded into life loudly & 2 or 3 flying foxes flapped out of the fronds. They must've been hanging on the fronds because there wasn't any flowers on that palm & the boganvillea & passionfruit vines on that part of the railings weren't flowering either at that stage. Also often some of the palm fronds have sections of leaves torn off part way along the backbone all raggety like. I used to think it was the galahs having fun but after seeing the bats that night I decided it was them just hanging out now & then always on the same palm but obviously differnet fronds since those don't last that long before falling off.

The type of palms around the house is bangalow palm which is why I went around & cut all the bunches of fruit off. I also have heaps of kentias which produce copious & massive bunches of nuts.

I think they eat then fly some other place to rest before flying home. Perhaps they're waiting for their mates to come by so they can all fly home together. dontknow

Clarissa

I have just been watching the late TV news & there were some people interviewed about today's happenings re the dog etc.

They are still talking about flying foxes potentially spreading the virus more because they are distressed from being dishoused, stressed out etc.

How the hell would anyone know?? It's all just supposition. The one animal 'they' are not testing or even studying at this point is the bloody bats themselves! No-one has got out there to find & map the colonies & test them for virus to see which colonies are carrying it.

I think the scientists are frightened to test the colonies because if they find virus in some colonies, the public will pressure the scientists into culling those infected. It might come down to animal activists verses others. Then of course there is the politics that will inevitably go with it.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Chablis

thebundychick

The dog is still alive!!!!!

The owners are waiting on another round of tests to come back before discussing euthanasia with the dog, but they are vehmently apposed to killing the dog.

Its a dog people... easy to throw in a kennel and quarantine.

thebundychick

The dog was PTS today

Clarissa

Now apparently it'll be compulsory to have all dogs & cats on a hendra property tested also.

I can just imagine how many will get spirited away before the vet is called. Also some people will hold off calling the vet because they don't want to loose their precious house pets too.

I can't help thinking that at some future time it will be proven to have all been unnecessary.

Also I can just see people running around trying to catch half wild farm cats

As Rusty's owner said, "this country is littered with wild dogs anyway. What's to say they wouldn't spread the virus too."

Spitfire

This is the horse that died near here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0EopcE2Lcc

PasoBaby_CarolU

That was hard to watch. How sad.

calatar

Wow, just now reading about this on here and wikipedia, sounds terrible! i hope they get an effective vaccine soon.

thebundychick

its been 10 days since the last reported case of Hendra.

We were receiving unconfirmed reports last week that it was a hell of a lot closer than what the media reported.

Its been 5 days since i heard the unconfirmed reports, and still nothing has been reported. suffice to say, I think that at best they were testing for hendra quite close to home, but never actually got any positives for it.

My panic level is beginning to subside. The weather is warming up. And for every day of Crystal clear sunshine & warm days, I know we are moving further & further away from high risk.

Clarissa

There's a good possibility there are still cases turing up. But the media has gone cold on it all so it's not being reported in the news anymore.

Also the DPI can get very slow to update their website if they feel the need to slow down public reaction. Particularly after the dog was PTS.

Many people have their own thoughts regarding horses being put down, but many, many more have strong reactions when dogs are being PTS from the same illness too.

Clarissa

Just wanted to say there are still cases turning up & horses dying.

Bats are in my garden nightly & I can hear them fighting over fig tree fruit growing on the far hillside in the paddock over my back fence.

I have emptied all the troughs around the house yard & the only water my horses have now is from the 3 dams. I don't leave any self serve food or hay out, but I can't help the fact that they have to graze the grass which may have been contaminated by droppings from passing bats. One would hope that those droppings would be sufficiently foul tasting or smelling to repulse a grazing horse.

Over the last 2 days we have had a good lot of rain to wash the grass which should help too.