learning how to ride a gait

bit · learning how to ride a gait

I kept telling Carol, my centered riding instructor "I quit riding when she gaits. I don't know what to do. It's smooth and it feels like I just sit there." She finally understood today, I totally quit riding when Eclipse gaits. If you quit riding, you lose the connection. Horse gets worried. Everything falls apart on every level. Horse paces.
Eclipse's motion in the saddle will send you into this sashay kind of side to side motion. Looks like that infinity symbol. No forward, just side to side, like a sideways 8. Today, she said that although what I mostly felt was side to side, she wanted me to try and feel any forward motion and then move with that. Pick out the good part of how she moves, and don't encourage the side to side. I did. There was the slightest peak at the top of the the circle, (hope I'm saying this right) so when my hip went to the side, it also went forward for an instant, then around again and back. There is the most subtle of forward, for just a milisecond as you hip comes around. I latched onto that forward bit, and that's the only movement I did. I got forward impulsion. The sashay stopped, and she changed how she moved.
I know how to feel where the feet are at a walk. That back right foot pushes off, your right hip comes up. I get how to get that forward movement. Now at the gait? It all goes smooth and I couldn't feel, so I just sat. OOOOH, says Carol. So she showed me that even though it's much smaller, there is still the slightest up on the hip as the foot pushes off. It's faster and it's a smaller movement, but it's there. So treat it like you did the side to side. Now that I could feel it, and I had to really be plugged in, I could do the forward thing, and I could also give the most subtle of rein aids for a circle, timing my give and take with the back foot.
Amazing. No more pacing. Horse that listens. Human that can feel.

I love centered riding! I love taking lessons!

Yes_But_Neigh

Deb, my trainer said that some horses do the shoving forward movement and others do the sashay.(gaited horses that is) Bodie does both, he shoved forward, feels like his shoulder dislocates, slams his leg forward/down and does the sashay circle back and then it repeats itself from the beginning. His dog walk is just a sashay and when he goes into a flat walk, he goes forward, more like a rocking horse. Real gentle and gliding like. Canter? Completely collected and correct. Lifts his back and everything. I'm curious as to see if your rides continue to improve. Is carol familiar with gaited horses? Now that I'm moving to southern California my goal is to find a cr trainer. I wish I could sit in on your lessons, I would learn so much.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Deb, I understand your problem, and you should try it on a quick gait! LOL It is very hard to keep an active seat on a smooth horse.

If you remember that gait is the exact same sequence as the walk, start at the walk and ride that faster and faster you should get gait. Probably why Eclipse paces is that your seat, moving side to side, is telling her to pace.

If you can afford it, you might take Eclipse to a Larry Whitesell clinic, since this is exactly what you work on...your seat and riding gait, slower and faster, all the transitions in your seat.

Good luck.

bit

Carol, that makes perfect sense! Holy cow! If I ride the sashay, I get pace. If I ride the forward movement, I get gait! Ahhhhhhhh!
It was so smooth, I couldn't feel anything. I thought it was smooth anyway. A bit like riding in a car, until I really started paying attention. THEN I felt it, and could ride that glide. Even if the gait is incredibly smooth, or itty bitty like a paso, you still have to have, as Carol said, an active seat. Ya can't just sit there. That's what bothered me so much. I knew I was sitting there, and just sitting means no connection. Eclipse was so calm and centered yesterday, once we were all plugged in, connected and I was riding, really riding.
When I started out, my mind was just spinning with the Cusack drama, Tony leaving for the summer, my daughter's college and boyfriend drama. Eclipse was spooky, concerned and when I hopped on, she took off. Not fast, but a pretty good walk. I asked if I could "try that again", circled around to the mounting block and got off. Carol was smiling and stood with us while we did a nice deep breath, exhaled, relaxed and got on again. Eclipse relaxed, and took a breath too. We did some cr grounding stuff, and she relaxed even more. So did I. Another reminder, be in the present moment. You can't be with your horse if your mind is galloping off, spooking, and your ears are pinned. She is such a sensitive horse, she went right with me. It's so nice to know she's so plugged in, and all I have to do is be very calm, and so is she. Just think happy thoughts, and we can fly. Very Peter Pan. Big aha's yesterday.

bit

from cr Carol

Just to clarify, Eclipse does not pace all the time by any means (even if at times you feel like you “quit” when you 2 are working on gaiting) There are a lot of degrees to “gaiting” that formulate one of many Gait options on a Fox Trotter..

There are 3 movements a horse may offer a rider’s seat at walk – all are there: side to side (sashay as I called it), some forward and back and some up and down. We want to feel the up and down and forward and back – this is what combines to make the backward pedaling of a bicycle feel through your seat bones. Side to side motion that one could pick up (and is offered more by some horses than others), is not useful in getting your horse moving forward with good forward engagement of hind legs. Yesterday we were feeling the forward push from her hind legs. It can carry into gaiting.

Yes_But_Neigh

OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH! I GET IT NOW! CUHLICKKKKKK! Duh! This is going to help SO much while riding Bodie. It wasn't a post about gaiting, but rather, a post about continuing to RIDE these smooth horses. My goodness! Wow!

jackspark

I need some CR lessons. Often wondered why my gal broke gait so much and fell into the pace........ I became complacent and just quit riding

I'll be working on the forward motion this weekend, thanks forum friends, you all are the best teachers

stella

Hi! I'm new on this forum, and breeder of Carol U's horse, Zar, in her avatar. Aside from breeding and owning PFs since about '74, I've also professionally trained, not just PFs, but also a number of other gaited breeds, totally naturally, and own a half Paso/SSH too....recently worked with some SSH and TWH, for gait corrections.

Riding wise, I'd have to say I mainly use CR principles for riding, but I guess I've been off in my own corner a long time, as I don't really totally understand what you're talking about, in having such an active seat, and making riding so much work.

Personally, I think its important to understand the nature of gait; how perfect gait is an "ambidextrous" horse, relying just as much on its lateral support system as its diagonal one; and, while HAVING A GOOD SECURE SEAT(balanced, that's the key to everything), also having a quiet seat, that helps the horse by NOT throwing it off balance.

The horse has to be in proper frame-balance, to gait properly. I like having a secure but quiet seat, and my body well-balanced right above my seat(yet relaxed), so that movement of my weight will not interfere with the horse's balance(from the horse's point of view, innately the top priority!). I always tell my students, alot of movement is like static on the radio.....if there's alot, then you must "speak" too loudly with the rest of your aids....and the horse is also distracted trying to keep its own balance first and foremost(which, they can do whatever gait needed to quickly regain equilibrium-again, to them, #1 priority).....whereas, being quiet in your seat, you can just "whisper" with your aides (such as your legs!)to get "forward," without interfering with the horse's balance, and be able to maintain correct gait, without getting trotty or pacey.

jackspark

Stella, glad to hear from a new voice! Being not well versed in this area it is great to know that we can discuss this riding issue. My SSH mares are great but I have a lot of basic questions like what about my older mare who really doesn't want to canter? Did I just Hijack this, hope not.

stella

So, in reading your post, I would imagine that your SSH mare tends more so to get lateral-pacey- in her gait, perhaps with that tendency.
While the canter actually has the same footfall sequence as gait(surprise!), the timing is different, and it has a great emphasis on the diagonal support system.
Actually, the canter is a great way to strengthen the diagonal supports to help horses build up their ability to gait squarely, if their tendency(usually a conformational thing, but sometimes rider, farrier)is more to depend on lateral supports-in other words, be pacey.

If you can visualize that the point for gaited horse owners is to equalize their horse's ability to use both lateral and diagonal support systems- being in gait, you're basically alternating support systems, and avoiding that moment of "suspension" when all 4 feet are off the ground, going from one set of diagonals to the other(trot)or one set of laterals to the other(dead pace).

Usually, horses tend to pace because they're taking a bigger(longer) step in the back than in the front(so it lands "late"), which can be a matter of them not bending from the stifle enough(or at all!) and just shooting that back leg straight forward; restriction of the forehand/front leg by the rider holding the reins too tight(a horse must be able to get its head above its front leg as it becomes weightbearing to advance-restrict the head, shorten stride); sometimes the saddle(or the rider, or the headgear/bit) is making the horse work concave(which, depending on conformation, can make for trotty or pacey). Often, the pacey horse is straighter in the stifle, has more "let down" hocks, is lower in back leg motion(and trotty horses tend to have a higher action "way of going," conformationally determined to a large extent).

Training is partly teaching the horse to do something, and partly, getting the horse into the physical condition to do whatever it is, well, and this comes first.
You want to set the horse up for success(ok, you too!).
So, baby steps, to prepare...first do alot of lateral exercises, such as concentric circles-snail shells(in and out, large to smaller), serpentines and figure 8s around cones....start with big figures, work on down...and start at a walk-then collected walk, to get the horse to bend, to use their hindquarters and start to bend also at the stifle, and then hock, more. You want to muscle up this area, the stifle, gaskin, underpinning of the rear end/buttocks. (yes, you're "bodybuilding")

Basically, you're "stress conditioning"....doing just enough, a little each day and building on it, so that the body reacts by building tissue(and also, densifies bone, too), rather than tearing it down, as asking too much will do. In training, you're always better off being conservative, than getting carried away, even if your horse is learning by leaps and bounds, there's a fine line, don't forget the physical stress. You will see that the horse will sweat on these weaker parts as they strengthen, and they'll sweat less there once these parts get "conditioned".
Yes, lunging in the canter helps build those muscles too- and make sure to do both ways, to help get that horse "ambidextrous" for sure-and get both leads eventually too, without unintentional cross-cantering(like us, horses like using their strengths, avoiding using their weaknesses, so don't do less on "the hard side", work on the discipline of getting it done right).

Eventually, you can try the canter US, best done on a circle---but I'll save some of that info/details for later, so you don't rush! Hope this is enough to get you started in the right direction....but you'll find, suppling your horse will work wonders for gait, discipline, everything, while you're on your way to the canter. Keep me posted!

jackspark

My mare does have stifle problems and gets pretty pacey. I always thought that I had a nice relaxed seat, with her, and it never made sense that she kept breaking gate. She has been significantly better since I purchased a treeless saddle. Thanks so much for the great post and I WILL begin to work her using the exercises you suggest and building slowly with care not to over-do it. She is a big gal and not the most graceful so probably will take some time.

Yes_But_Neigh

Stella,
Do you have any reading material you can suggest for us who have gaited horses in our lives? I've got a 4 y/o KMSH and loved reading your post combined with Deb's helpful information

PasoBaby_CarolU

Emili,

For reading I'd suggest Lee Ziegler's, "Easy Gaited Horses" It is a good book and covers the different breeds and different gaits.

http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Gaited...TF8&qid=1306497379&sr=1-1

But, for videos on getting natural gait through collection, I suggest Larry Whitesell:

http://www.whitesellgaitedhorsemanship.com/

One thing I will say about an active seat, when I was doing Parelli and now with dressage, when I 'ride to a stop' if I'm not actively riding, there is no way to ride to a stop, since I'm not in time with my horse and my seat means nothing; I'm not in control of the feet. I admit I don't ride actively on trail rides, but I do when ever I'm 'working' my horse. We've talked before about how easy it is to be lazy on them...well, when I'd be told to relax and quit riding, there was no place to relax to. I started riding with my horse and it all became very easy.

I think it's kind of hard to mix methods too much. I'd suggest finding what works best for you and your horse and doing it.

BTW - for those that don't know, Stella was mixing dressage and gait on horses many MANY years ago.

jackspark

Good point Carol. How can a horse know that you have stopped riding if you weren't active to begin with, Duh

I have been teaching my girl to do this and have had to exaggerate to get her to recognize my seat has changed. I bought a BB pad to help us get closer and to make it easier for her to notice........ it's working

PasoBaby_CarolU

Several years ago my husband was having trouble getting Santiago to canter. All Santiago would do was gait faster. I got on and the canter was right there the instant I asked for it. I did this a few times, gait to canter or walk to canter, and no problem. He got back on and he would just get faster gait. That was when I realized what the problem was. He was asking for the canter by raising his energy. Santiago complied with more energy. I asked for canter by cantering with my seat and body, and Santiago started cantering underneath me. It took a while and some rides on Diablo - who loves to canter - and they were cantering fine.

This is a good example of an active seat. You can use an active seat to get very short, slow or long and fast strides at a walk. It's pretty interesting to play with your horse this way.

jackspark

It's just recently that I have begun "cantering" on the ground, like when I was a little girl. Funny how they pick this up as a sign for them to canter......... sorry, I'm kinda late to the party and having a lot of DUH moments lately

Better late than never, I suppose.

This is exactly why you all should continue to state the obvious for those of us that might not have known or noticed it before

Yes_But_Neigh

My silly boy LOVES to canter. So much so that I am having to bring him back to gait and remind him that any time I ask for more, it doesn't mean insta canter. He pops RIGHT out of that lovely smooth gait straight up into a canter. I can get the canter from a stand still or a walk no problem but now that he is allowed to have freedom to move out, all he wants to do is canter. It isn't a hot thing because we can have this nice little canter, almost like a lope. Guess I probably need to reward for a couple of strides of gait then go back to a walk, wash repeat so it isn't just canter, canter, CANTER! Due to surgery soon I won't be able to make the Whitesill clinic but next tear we are definitely going! Rented a Larry dvd on giddyupflix, it was scratched. Guess he's real popular :ps: sorry for the typos, on my phone.

Also, I know this horse needs professional help. I plan to get it for us as soon as I can

jackspark

Sheeesh Emili........ when I ask for more I get a pace when what I really want is a nice canter. She was raised and trained by my uncle and he REALLY believed that a gaited horse was meant to gait so in her mind............ canter might be bad, don't know

Gonna try Stella and Carol's suggestions: Work her on lateral movement and ride the canter with my seat

PasoBaby_CarolU

Nancy and Emili, why don't you just trade horses!

stella

Well, I was looking for someone to specifically define what they meant by "active" seat, because there's so much variation of what that means in the horse world, and certainly in gaited horses.

From the historical background of many gaited breeds, an 'active' seat can be sitting back there on your tailbone, scooting to put pressure on, with your "feet on the running boards," head and shoulders hunched forward, all to engage the horse's hind end to scoot under more, get a bigger lick, etc.

Of course, most of us really don't want to be doing that. I do use my seat to stop or slow a horse, with proper use of my aids....if done correctly, not really very perceptible that you used your arms or hands at all, being if you work from your shoulder, stay relaxed, the correct and minute weight shifts occur...just enough to "talk" to the horse.

Which relates to what I'm talking about....that first and foremost, the horse must be concerned with maintaining its balance, despite our weight on it, and yet do whatever manuveurs and speeds we ask, willingly and as immediately and correctly as possible.

So of course, what we do up there, makes a difference to the horse, not just physically, but mentally as well. Personally, I want the horse to be a willing partner, and enjoy what we're doing, and trust me fully. So, in training it, I am careful how I use my seat, aids, weight of my body. I can either put the horse in a position of imbalance to get it to do something- such as, shift my weight to the right to get a right turn- that gets the response I want, turn right, but for me, not by the right reason- I've put the horse in a position of imbalance, and he/she just reacts to "save" their balance by turning, basically "ducking under' to center the rider's weight again. Every tiny bit of weight change, pressure you add, a horse feels and may have to adjust to; it can't see you well, but first and foremost, it feels you, for better or worse.

Does this have an effect on the horse's relationship and trust in you? I think so. I prefer to teach the horse by using my body/seat/aids to help the horse balance itself better, and stay "out of its way" at the very least; preferably, aiding it to feel more secure. Its what I give back to the horse, my thoughtfulness, when I ask it to respond to me. That's the give and take of it. I'm the benevolent dictator, but I give my horse what it wants the most...to feel secure.

Once the horse "gets it" that you are there, not just to tell it what to do, but also, helping it do so in a safe, secure manner that helps it stay well-balanced, you are "looking out" for its well being as a good herd leader should; then the trust is going to be there.

Of course, its important to be very, very consistent about this(because, good herd leaders are always consistent), and think through every move you make, not only HOW it will affect the horse, but also WHY- does it help the horse retain balance, or are you eliciting the manuveur you want by putting it in a position of imbalance?

The first thing that attracted me to this forum was its name-"its about the horse"(ok, reading some of the posts, lots of intelligence and knowledge here, too!)...but I really believe in this perspective, and try to actively ride and train with this in mind.

That's why, I try to stay consistent in how I ride, so the horse can always count on me, no matter where we are. I ride the same if I'm in a training ring, at a show, or on the trails. I don't think horses have a priority list on those activities! Those judgments, of when its important and when not, are ours, not theirs. My horses can always count on me, the same...and I expect the same level of manners and performance from them.

I've always bred horses for trail/pleasure horses, and my perspective of shows has been as a means to an end(using it as a gauge to my training progress, horses' abilities), not THE end. After all, the riding rings are flat, where is it more important to do things in balance? On the undulating, irregular trails....that's where it'll make the most difference to the horse, the way I see it.
In the "old days"(yeah, even before me!)when horses were the main means of transportation, then that was the perspective on horse shows, too... a means of judging abilities for other purposes. Of course, nowdays, many people own horses and compete because competing, in and of itself, is the priority-that is THE end. That's ok too, but it still works better if you put the relationship with your horse first. It gives that horse that tad of extra "shine," that willingness to win for you, give 101% because it wants to, which is called brilliance.

Ok, and the other point I want to make is, that gaited horses have a much larger "reportoire" of how to retain their balance by being able to vary their gait so widely...from being pacey to trotty, not necessarily having to change from an intermediate gait to walk or canter...or even, to refuse or misbehave in some other way...or even, have many leg problems. So yes, if your horse isn't consistent in gait, then how you ride and the horse's frame/balance should be fully explored. We owe it to the well-being of our horses to learn to ride them as best and kindly as we can.

jackspark

Gonna be doin a lot of thinkin about this, Stella.

Yes_But_Neigh

What happens if you just like..... ride faster and faster and faster and faster? Can't trot/pace/gait forever! Maybe that's too simple. That's how I always teach my babies to canter, gaited or not. When I backed a twh gelding, that's what we did but we had to do it out on the trail. With their big strides, we'd be from one end of the arena to the other in less than a second. Uphill too. I find that horses like to dig in going uphill anyway, (doesn't have to be much of a hill at all, just a slight incline) and it puts them on their hind end which gives you that good gait from their hind and eventually they just fall into canter. Sadly, it can take horses years to learn how to canter when they were trained by people who are against gaited horses cantering. Rode one of my trainer's horses that took a good 8 months to learn it was OKAY to canter. He feels like a wobbly rocking chair. I haven't read Stella's response and am certainly no trainer, these are just my own experiences in getting youngsters to go into the canter, sort of on "accident" and just praise praise praise, long rein, ride it forward, encourage more AWESOME!

stella

Well, actually there's plenty of gaited horses that can sustain a gait faster than a canter, considerably faster. The pace is a faster gait than a trot, in and of itself; and yes, a somewhat trottier horse may eventually go into a canter- or, a gallop-which is a totally different gait than a canter- but, gaiting, particularly for horses with strong lateral tendencies(more prone to break to pace)have more difficulty going into a canter, because it has a diagonal emphasis, and their diagonal transition(from one set of supports to the other)isn't as strong as their lateral support system.

Yes, if you're going fast downhill-or even uphill, if its a scramble, that horse may very well canter, and it may do so for the purpose of trying to maintain its balance, and avoid falling. But, that's the point I'm trying to make- to try to avoid putting a horse in the position of imbalance as your regular cue. If there's one thing a horse innately hates, is to lose its balance, it fears it, it could be death next. Friends don't put friends in dicey situations, if they can help it.

Yes, it may be necessary a time or two, to have the horse "by accident" give you want you want that way, and praise it profusely(I'm a big believer in praise), but you want to instill some other sort of signal, body language or verbal, fairly quickly...sometimes the same location(at the beginning)helps....but you don't want ultimately to just have a horse that reacts to you throwing if off balance..thats a defensive reaction, to protect itself. You want a horse to respond to you out of willingness, not out of fear. A horse that does that is so very much more rewarding, its the icing on the cake of horse ownership.

The reason to take your time, is to keep your horse sound over the long term.....and on a short term basis, not ask it to do stuff its physically not in condition to do well yet, especially not while carrying the weight of a human , to boot. One thing humans have to learn, I think, is patience...treat well what you love, even in this "instant" society.

Plus, particularly with a young green horse, I still want to instill the trust in me to be the protective one, from a mental viewpoint too. That later makes it so the horse is always willing to try to do whatever I ask, without resistance. It makes training get so much easier and easier, once you've instilled the idea that whatever you've asked, has never been a negative experience or elicited fear or pain. There might even be, "something in it" for them! (you've taught them more secure balance/agility-they love that!)If they're tired at the end of a session, its a "good" tired, one that will help build muscle and densify bone, strengthen them(helps them gait better/more consistently too), not tearing down tissue and making they muscle/leg/body sore.

If you're not careful in how much you ask of your horse, don't consider their current condition, you can be causing problems you don't even see. Overworked, muscle tissue can get tiny microscopic tears in it, which is replaced by scar tissue. Muscle tissue has elasticity, but scar tissue doesn't, so the movement of the horse will become more limited.

The horse may not even seem sore or lame. (that doesn't mean they're not hurting) We've all seen, mostly at shows, horses that perform brilliantly their first year or two, and then by the time they're mature- but quite young- have "lost" alot of their brilliance, they're "way of going" has changed gone from fluid and wonderful, to mediocre. This is what happens when a horse is pushed too far, too fast. Even if a horse has a brilliant mind and willingness to learn quickly, there's only so fast you can get the horse well-conditioned.
Sometimes people get upset when their horse doesn't do things as well or quickly as they'd like, but its not that the horse doesn't want to, it may just not be in good enough physical condition to do so. (if I ask you to drop and give me 50, right now, can you do it?)

I like going into a pasture with a lead shank, and those horses(usually youngsters lately) know someone's going to work, and they're pushing each other out of the way to get to me first, they look forward to work...ooh,ooh...take me, me!...even if they know they're going to do some sweating. And the attitude of whoever gets to go, just energetic about going to the barn, as if to say, "what're we going to do new today? Makes my whole day.

PS. Just re-read your post---first of all, I don't think there's that many people training that are "against" cantering, they just want the horse, like any other non-gaited breed, to learn to canter from a cue, rather than "mix" gaits at will...its will, & not the rider's will. There are some people that ride gaited because their backs and/or knees can't take trotting, and for some, cantering is also painful. Those people may not want their horses to canter. As I said, the more lateral horses are more difficult to train to canter, and may take alot longer, just because they have to learn how to use themselves somewhat differently, and need to condition some weaker areas, if they're quite pacey. But, it does help "square up" a pacey horse, to train it to canter. (basically, you have to train them to use their hind ends/legs in particular differently than they're used to)