Living with shoes

oldmac_donald · Living with shoes

Waaaaallll, seeing as there aren't too many pro-shoe threads on here, let me start one...

I will freely admit: I was very much a BUA at one point. If you had shoes on your horse, you were either ignorant or cruel. ANY horse could go barefoot (it was the OWNER'S fault if it could not). Boots were fantastic tools for lazy owners or transitioning horses. PERIOD.

I have trimmed my own horses for well over two years now, and I do a fairly decent job on MY horses in MY environment, as I can monitor their comfort and watch the hooves change according to the trim/season/environment. I'm very pro-bare, and even as recent as a fortnight ago I was critically looking at some shod horses, thinking "those look pretty bad..."

So when I picked up my mare's foot on Monday week, and saw that the rapid change in seasonal environment had left her with less hoof then I had left her with, when she was trimmed a month ago, my first thought was pretty instant: shoes. No one said "oh, shoes?" or made me feel bad for having her bare in the first place, or recommended them to me. She had NO foot. No amount of special trimming or padding would of made her comfortable. I figured a few sets of shoes, done by my instructor's son (both are excellent farriers, and have been keeping an eye on my trimming and my horse's soundness), and we'd be sweet for being bare again.

Well! I had Bella's second ever set of shoes hot-fitted on Friday, and to see her bounce, gazelle-like, across "the gravel drive of death" afterwards almost made me cry. She looked like someone had just taken off a pinching shoe, and set her free on carpet. She was SO happy!

It was like taking a horse who worked soundly at 90% comfort, and making them 110% comfortable. How can I deprive her of this? Certainly I am morally bound to the ideas that shoes cause damage, but... gosh! If shoes make her that much more comfortable (and she was born and bred from a herd that ran 24-7 in this country, so it's not like she's a soft footed TB from the turf track chucked in a bush paddock), and there is nothing else that I can do to make her more comfortable as a bare hooved horse, then... is it so wrong to keep her shod?

I've been lunging and working her in-hand (she is recovering from her yearly case of rain scald, boo hoo), and her stride has changed over the last week. She is really bringing those hind feet under her belly, tracking up. She doesn't start off a bit stiff and reluctant, but really moves off with rhythm in her step. Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see, but I'm very happy with her new shoes.

The ego's taken a bit of a hit though!

So, any other shoe-ers out there? Speak up! What does your horse have, what is his history, how do you feel about having him/her shod?

This isn't a "barefoot is bad!" thread at all, or "shoes are the be-all!". This is "my environment changed too quickly for my horse to adapt, I gave her a hand, and wow! this is what I have noticed... how about you?" thread.

Either we have very limited numbers of folks on here with shod horses, or you are all verrrryyyy quuiiietttt....

xenophon

How can one argue with what appears to be a valid conclusion drawn from sound scientific observation, which is precisely what you described. My hat is off to you.

All of my horses are barefoot now precisely because of the damage I saw being done to their feet from shoes. I went through four farriers trying to keep my horse's feet in good shape with shoes. At that time I had not ever heard of "barefoot trimming".

Two horses were becoming severely under run, and a third was in the situation where the more she had the shoes on, the more she needed to have the shoes on. Pulling them off at the beginning of winter was no longer an option for her as she would go lame if the snow melted, and then the ground froze. The hard pock marks in what once was mud was very hard on her and I would have shoes put back on with snow "poppers". Before too long the hoof wall would no longer hold a nail.

This one horse was getting to be in a very desperate situation that prompted me to search for a solution. That's when I stumbled upon the theory of barefoot trimming and the use of boots. Of all my horses, she responded the best to this approach. Frozen pock marked ground no longer fazes her and you can ride her just about anywhere with or without boots.

Once, while riding back from a short back country, ride I lost a boot off of one of her feet (I HATE it when that happens!!!) and we still had an area to cross that was about 100 yards long filled with basketball size angular granite boulders. I had no choice but to ride on through. This horse picked her way and walked on that stuff like it was a sandy arena. That pretty much sold me that I had made the right decision for her.

It is wonderful that you have found a way to relieve your horse's discomfort and I wish you further success in that regard. We both took our blinders off and discovered a positive outcome.

Jim

appellativo

I'm glad that you were able to make your horse more comfortable! I would love to hear from you periodically on whether you are going to keep the shoes on, (and whether you'll be taking a periodic break from them to 'prevent change in form') and if you see any physical changes in her hoof structure. And no, I'm not going to be waiting in the wings to say 'I told you so.' I am interested in learning from your observations.

I'm also curious how many other members in IATH shoe their horses and are afraid to speak up . What's a BUA? (is it a barefoot nazi?)

happycat

ElaineC

I really believe you can't be all one, or all the other. You have to do whats best for the horse, and each case is its own situation. I see horses at the boarding stable that I wouldn't bother putting shoes on, and I see horses with problems as a result of shoes. I also see horses that you couldn't pull the shoes from. The farrier is an artisan as far as I'm concerned, he does a beautiful job on every hoof he looks at.

Kudos for you for doing whats best for your horse

jokersmama

I can't imagine anyone here would chastise you for making your horse comfortable. If she needs shoes to get through this change in her environment then so be it.

I too would like to follow her progress and changes if any to her hoof or other parts of her body you notice, good or bad.

Shoes are just another tool.

I haven't had any of my horses shod in years...YET. I think there will come a time when I do need to consider that option, and I am open to it if that is what my horse needs at that time. I will try the Epona shoes first, but if I need to go to a steel shoe then I have no problem with that.

At least I now enough now to be able to recognize when the structures are not healthy and when a change needs to be made so I'm not just blindly relying on the farrier.

Kudos to you for caring enough to do what it takes even if that meant going against your own ego

BTW~ I LOVE your avatar pic, that's cute!

Nashama

Not all horses can work comfortably shoeless. This is why we avoid the rabid side of things. The choice is with the owner whether to go shoeless or shoe with boots or shoes. The trick is top give her two 6 week spells out of them a year to rest her body.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I have 8 horses. I shoe two of them in the summer, the ones I trail ride. I find the rocks in the mountains are too hard on their soles. My property is lake bottom clay, so the horses have good hooves, just not tough ones.

The horses who don't leave here, don't get shoes. They don't need them.

calatar

I support your decision to make your horse comfortable, I posted this awhile ago but it sums up my thoughts on barefoot vs shod.

"There are some people that believe that shoes have ruined the human foot (if you don't believe me just google it). They say that shoes have made our feet weak (not just the soles but the internal structures) and that the majority of foot problems occur because we wear shoes. In my opinion these people seem to have beliefs that are very similar to those of a so called "barefoot purist." Now I do not believe that these beliefs are completely unjustified. I am sure that my feet are weaker than those of my barefooted ancestors but in my day to day life I seem to do alright with good fitting comfortable shoes.

Now all of that is well and good but with both horses and humans all shoes are not created equal. Someone who walks around in high heels all of the time is going to have a much unhealthier foot than someone who wears tennis shoes. Being young and healthy I could probablly "go barefoot" if I really wanted to and I am sure that over time my feet would strengthen a considerable amount. Heck there are many long distance runners out there that run barefoot and more power to them. My mom on the other hand has a "pathological foot" and going barefoot for her would be a much more painful process. Would it strengthen her feet? Probably. Would she ever go "sound" barefoot? It's doubtful. In that situation is it really fair to make her live in constant discomfort?

I think that most horses raised with proper "stimulation, nutrition, and environment" absolutely do not need shoes. But what about all of the horses who didn't have that? What about the horses that have developed hoof pathologies that are extremely uncomfortable even on soft footing? Are there aspects of shoeing that are inherently damaging to the foot? Probably. But is a well balanced foot with a properly applied shoe any worse than my mom having to wear orthotic shoes?

Luckily, I have horses with healthy enough feet that I can keep them barefoot and they are comfortable. I am also fortunate enough to have boots that fit them well and only have to use them sparingly. If I wasn't this fortunate I honestly don't know what I would do. I know that finding a good farrier is difficult at best. I also know that it would be hard for me to shoe any horse that I owned. However, all things considered it would be impossible for me to leave a horse in pain and barefoot if shoes could make it more comfortable. Would it be like putting a brace on an elbow? Yes. Would I have the potential to damage the foot if I decided to work them with that brace? Absolutely. In the end I think everyone has to weigh the pros and cons and make the decision that they are at peace with."

Sunny

We shoe when necessary, too. From November to April pretty much most of the horses here in the mountains where we live get their shoes pulled and they're kicked out for the winter.

You pretty much HAVE to have shoes, like CarolU, if you're going to ride in the Rocky Mountains. Get it? Rocky mountains. The rocks are very sharp and lots of them.

My ex husband who has been a farrier for over 30 years, (and the only one in these parts using a forge to shape the shoe to the foot

) ,has a neat little trick though.

On keg shoes (ones you buy at the store that are already made), there are 4 nails holes to each side of the branch of the shoe. He only uses the first three if he can.

He keeps the heels low and natural, and with the nails more forward in the shoe the heels are allowed some give, to expand and contract, when the horse moves. You can see the "'shine" on the rear part of the shoe when it's removed from the foot.

I guess in these parts, he doesn't see many problems with feet. I am amazed at all of the cases showing up on the forum. There aren't very many box stalled year-round show horses around here and with lots of pasture kept horses and no shoes in the winter, a few months in shoes don't seem to hurt the horses.

Horseshoe Creek

Coming from someone who has never shod a horse - because they've always been just ditch horses, I have a couple of questions. These stem solely from curiosity.

I can certainly understand an environment that wears down a hoof too much but I've always wondered about the rock theory. For me, it seems that all you'd need was a rock bigger than the thickness of the shoe to still cause bruising???

Has anyone tried the flexible shoes, like the Epona shoe (I think that's the one I'm thinking about)? That is the biggest thing that prevented me from considering shoes - the inflexibility of them. SavvyLearner - it sounds like hubby has certainly given that thought.

Thanks!

Chris

Shannon

My 19 year old gelding wears shoes for the most part. I pulled them before winter as I like the idea of his feet having a break and I really hate snow pads. I pulled the shoes before we actually had snow on the ground and it was obvious he was very uncomfortable. I dusted off his old pair of Easyboot Epics and he wore those for approx. 12 hours a day when he was in the dry lot but got them taken off overnight when they go out on pasture (muzzled). I was also applying a product called Keratex daily to help make his hooves harder. After about a week of applying the Keratex, I did notice a small difference.

Luckily, snow did come soon after this and he become more comfortable. We had a ton of freezing rain on Boxing Day however, making the ground hard and again I noticed he had some difficulty. Fast forward through more snow and then a January thaw and our barnyard is a mix of ice bumps and hard poop turds. He is definitely not comfortable. He will be getting shoes back on the next time our farrier comes. He is probably a horse that will wear shoes for the rest of his life.

We just got a new horse 2 weeks ago who was barefoot for the past 3 years. This was not a good barefoot trim however, he has no soles, non-existant bars, long toes on all 4 feet. Next time the farrier is out, he will probably be getting shoes on as well.

Our two other horses are doing wonderfully barefoot. Our draft X mare has sturdy feet and doesn't have much problem with gravel. After about an hour of riding on just gravel alone, she'll start trying to move onto the grassy areas (usually pushing me into tree branches hee hee!). The biggest reason for that I think is just that we don't really have a lot of hard ground for her feet to get conditioned.

Overall, it's about listening to the horse. I'm like you in that I can't quite wrap my head around how shoes can be good if they can also cause many bad things, but all I have to do is look at my horses and I know I've made the right choices for them.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I have to agree with CarolT. It may just be our climate but I have never seen or had the hoof problems you all post. Thrush here is rare except in horses kept in unclean stalls. I think the wet winter hydrates the hooves and the moist/dry cycles must be conducive to healthy hoof growth. As long as my horses stay in this environment, they are fine. It's when I take them in the mountains that I have problems unless I shoe. I've tried barefoot and boots and had problems with both. I keep the boots to use in early spring and late fall so I don't have to shoe as early.

Chris, I've never tried those shoes, but work largely on the theory that if it isn't broken, I'm not going to fix it. I put rim shoes on my horses for traction and they help the toe roll over naturally. I would hate to experiment with my horse's feet..the last time I did, I was at 8,000 feet with a sore horse and had to lead her down the mountain. It was weeks before her feet were healed enough to ride even in sand, and six weeks with shoes and Durasole to make her comfortable enough to go on rocky trails again. I lost a big part of my riding season because of my barefoot/boots experiment. So, I don't think I'll be doing rubber shoes. For the record, in 45 years of shoeing dozens of horses, I've never lamed a horse with shoes on.

As for your question about rocks and how shoes help the hoof, the help is three-fold. First it raises the foot out of the rocks, so most of the weight is born by the surfaces protected by the shoes....wall, outer sole and heels. A smaller sharp rock can still 'ouch' the horse in the sole or frog if they step wrong.

Another help is to keep the hoof walls from chipping or cracking. The shoe protects the walls of the hoof. I have seen some horses lamed for months from bad cracks or chips from hitting sharp rocks.

When I was a kid and rode one horse 2-8 hours every day, I'd wear off a pair of shoes in 4-5 weeks. I rode on gravel roads, concrete sidewalks, and paved roads a lot. If I was wearing out iron, you can imagine what it would do to unprotected feet. I understand horses ridden in sand have the same problem from abrasion.

I do believe though that a big portion of pleasure horses are rarely ridden enough to require shoes. The problem arises when one of these horses is taken on a 3 day rocky trail ride without shoes. I have seen this several times.

Mandy'sMarty

oldmac--My mare was shod when I bought her about 4 years ago. About 6 months later I pulled her rear shoes and then pulled her fronts a couple of months after that. She is a 15 year old Morgan with naturally good feet. Unfortunately, she is a very easy keeper having inherited the thrifty gene. She lives 24/7 on a huge pasture...that includes a lot of very boggy flood plain at this time. Her pasture diet and environment make it very challenging to keep her comfortable barefoot on river pebbles and granite trails.

We do a few local endurance rides each spring, on extremely varied terrain that includes deep mud, gravel roads, and mountain trails with granite cobble. Two years ago we were among the very few teams to complete barefoot. Last year we competed with boots.

A few summers ago we spent a week in the Absaroka Mountains wilderness of Wyoming. We rode 6 to 8 hours everyday, much of that on mountain trails cut through the volcanic rock. I had Mandy shod with Ground Control urethane shoes on all fours. Those shoes flexed and did not slip on hard rocky surfaces. Mandy was easily picking her way up and down rocky slopes and scree without slipping or sliding. She outperformed the guide's horses who wore metal shoes. However, I would never consider allowing her to wear those urethane shoes in the wet grass and mud found here in Georgia. The risk of slipping would be too great. When we returned home, I pulled the shoes.

You mention your horse recovering from her annual case of rain scald. If she were mine, I would be checking her pH balance. My experience is that a horse with proper pH is able to defend itself against bacterial/viral invasions that include rain rot/rain scald and thrush. I would want to rule out thrush as the reason she is foot sore.

Given my limited experience, I would consider a flexible shoe as another tool in my kit. For us now, wearing Epic and Bare hoofboots on occasion works well. I know from our CTR and endurance experiences that my barefoot Morgan mare is able to "pulse down" as fast and faster than the Arabs we compete with. I attribute that to her being barefoot. IMO horses with rigid shoes pay a price with less circulation in their hoof capsules. That affects their ability to recover after physical exertion and thus affects how quickly their heart rate recovers. I believe that translates into numbing the horse's sensation of their feet. And if this is so, then I think it follows that the horse shod with rigid shoes will probably move with more vigor when its feet don't feel the pain/discomfort that was being felt while barefoot. (And that doesn't include the price the shod horse probably pays with its proprioceptors in the foot capsule.) IMO we run the risk of missing the underlying primary issue as soon as the horse appears to move without pain/discomfort.

As my mentor and teacher, Regan Golob, always says: "Pain is health returning".

I wish I had a simple solution. If she were mine, I would consider the shoes as a tool to use and continue to search for the primary issue with her sore feet. You may find that shoes enable her to transition to a healthier foot that can handle being barefoot in certain conditions. At the very least, it sounds like the shoes have stopped the pain/discomfort she was feeling barefoot. Perhaps your investigation is just beginning. Good luck with your mare.

Leah

PasoBaby_CarolU

I've never heard that phrase. I don't think I agree with it. Pain is a message that tells the owner to STOP whatever they are doing because it is damaged and needs to heal. I would consider once the pain receded, then there is health returning. I used to say that once the horse won't let you catch it to bute it, it doesn't need the bute anymore.

Mandy'sMarty

My understanding of that phrase is that pain is a normal form of feedback in a healthy body. Because it hurts, it gets our attention. I really don't believe the Creator created pain just to make our lives miserable. I do believe that pain serves a purpose and therefore is needed and good. But only to provide enough feedback to get our attention. The concept is to alert the brain to stop whatever action caused the pain, so that the stress is reduced and the body can begin the healing process.

My point in my use of that phrase is that it is possible for us to misinterpret a palliative solution that brings immediate relief to pain/discomfort the horse is feeling in its feet. My post mentioned that it is my opinion that rigid shoes may numb the horses sensitivity to pain/discomfort...and therefore mask the primary cause of the pain in the foot capsule. I have re-read my post several times and I do not see where I encourage anyone to subject their horse to pain.

And yes, I am familiar with the relationship with stress and the body's hormonal response with cortisol.

And finally I think we all agree that healing comes from relieving the stress and the pain first so that the body can heal. Particularly with horses, a species that can experience laminitis because of the chemical imbalances created by stress.

I continue to hope that the OP's mare will be able to heal now that her shoes are helping her feel more comfortable.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Leah

Nashama

The physiology of pain is that it is a nervine response to the brain of injury or trauma, sent as a warning. After 3 weeks, the pain appears to reduce, even though the injury may not have reduced. This is the point at which it becomes chronic pain as opposed to acute pain. The brain starts to switch off to the signals. It does not always mean the body is healing.

Physiology of pain is a big thing for those of us doing red light and acupuncture studies as we wake up the horse to these chronic pain states, and they can react pretty strongly on certain points to the stimulus.

Mandy'sMarty

Mandy'sMarty

Jules--Thanks for the clarification.
I've experienced a reaction from my mare---that reaction to the awakening you describe---when applying acupressure with my hands on an area involving an old injury. She responded to the energy as I was not physically touching her.

oldmac_donald

Let me clear up a few things here... The horse has rain scald because she a) gets an extremely thin coat in summer. Thin as in: I have her halter noseband wrapped in sheepskin. Thin as in cotton rugs rub on shoulders, thighs, withers. Thin as is my boots can (and have) rubbed her hair in many occasions. b) she's an appy with a PINK back. You put a pink back and thin coat and tropical summer (we are in 90% humidity - even MY skin is blistering - with days of 37-40 degrees os blinding sunshine, often just after heavy rain) and you get burns. She BURNS. Her face burns, her back burns. I have her rugged from head to toe, and she sweats and rubs, and somewhere in there, the bugs eat her.

She's had her diet balanced. She gets enough copper (and I DO wish people would stop telling me to feed or bath her in copper sulphate, because I did that once and she lost two layers of skin - never mind what it would of done to her guts). I've tried apple cider vinegar (inside and out), bleach, tea tree, kero, malaseb, pinetarsel, Hoss Gloss, quitItch, white zinc, iodine... you name it, we've tried it. I've had every tom, dick and Dr Harry look at my mare and give me their fencepost opinion on why she's getting rainscald, and after several of their so-called remedies just about killed her skin, I really don't take kindly to experimenting on her.

She gets rainscald because she lives in a section of this country which horses should never live in. It is shite during these months. She's pink, she's burnt, she suffers. We all suffer. I make this time as comfortable as possible for her, and this year we are doing pretty well. The three month recovery is down to three weeks now, a record for us. I even got to ride her today for the first time.

I'm sorry, but you have NO IDEA how frustrating it is to have people go "oh rainscald? Well if you do this, it WILL clear up!" and then proceed to completely trash one's ability to care for their horse. I don't even bother telling people what she gets now, as far as I'm concerned she has a skin condition that occurs in summer. I'm so happy that instead of Bel losing her entire coat, from neck to tail, she lost a handspans amount on her right side, and for some reason her entire chest, and from noticing the "scurf" to being able to ride again was under three weeks. That's pretty good, and there was very little discomfort (apart from multiple bathings, poor dear) for Bella.

PLEASE! Forget about the rainscald. It happens to us, we deal! Mandy, this isn't a "pick on you" at all, I appreciate your advice. I've just had another round of "oh I know scald better then you" with another horse owner (who's never even met my mare) and I'm feeling very frustrated about it. Really, the only solution would be to take the mare south, out of the tropics.

Thrush - nope! No thrush here, her feet are brilliant. She has wide, plump frogs with a very soft "thumbmark" sulcus. Considering that last year we had seedy toe and thrush (and scald) to contend with, I'd say we are doing really well.

Here is a back foot, post-shoeing

The photo is appalling, I'll try get more tomorrow in the sunlight.

Now, as previously mentioned, Ms Bel and I got to go on our first ride today, since the scald hit. Of course, it stormed last night so everywhere was very boggy. I must say, riding with a shod horse was exactly like riding on a booted horse. She was no more or less comfortable on the trail, however we had to forge through some sticky mud at one point, and I panicked, thinking she'd pull a shoe off. I looked down, and got a fright when I *didn't* see the orange Rens - I've lost a boot!! Even though I looked down to check for a *shoe*, I still expected a boot. Idiot features...

Whilst out on the trail, riding past some kinda-horsey properties (read: farms with old nags out the back), I saw what looked to be a grey horse with a loopy old rope halter on, standing behind a strip grazing fence with a water tub. It was out the front of one of the properties (a real machine-haven of a farm), and as I got closer, I realised it wasn't behind a fence at all! It spotted us, and limped up (you could see it was "a bit lame"), and then kind of turned sideways to us as it's path was blocked by a drain - HOLY SHEET! This horse had the biggest pair of dingle-dangle cojones on it. Even from the height I was at, atop the MARE, I could tell it was a free-roamin' stallion. Sheet, sheet I'm thinking. What do I do? Do we run, walk away, what will IT do? Bella, don't you DARE wink at him....!

I had a dressage whip (for chasing off dogs, how appropriate) and I started "YAH! YAHH!" at the stallion. It kind of jumped in surprise and turned (must of been a nice natured horse, actually) and almost fell over. That's when I saw that it's right front foot had been severed, probably by wire, and recently. A cut down to the bone at least. The horse had looked a bit sore, but nothing like this! My horse wouldn't of even been weight-bearing with a similar wound. I dismounted, and was going to go catch the horse (stallion or not) when he limped away into the property and started munching around the house, so I figured he lived there. We departed, quickly...

So, our first post-scald and shoes ride was a bit interesting! I'll get some pics soon. Am very happy with how her feet are holding up, and for the first time she actually has frogs that are not mushy in any cracks, crevasses or with deep central clefts. No wet-season black moosh.

Most of the horses in this region are a bit sore at this time of year. Too much water, and perfect weather for breeding buggies in any injury, frog-rack, wall flare... you name it, it breeds right now. Yuk. I hate the wet. BRING ON WINTER!!

oldmac_donald

Carol ... errr... Remmer's Carol (

) - Awesome! Bel was hot shod, and he used the first three nail holes too. Covered the heels well. Very impressed by the job he did (so was my instructor, who is the father and senior (retired) farrier).

Carol - Paso Carol -

Sunny

Yes, Mel, I noticed the three nails! Looks like a good shoeing job, nice wide web, nice support on the nice low heels..

Now I see why you said that where you live isn't that great for the horses. Wow, you have your own experimental lab going on with just your horse! Are there any grants available for you in studying these problems? I'm only half kidding......

My ex shoes for a few dude strings around here and they travel up to the top of the continential divide every week and back down on dry, rough and rocky trails. He shoes them every 6-7 weeks. Some of the horses' shoes are worn right off the bottom of the foot or are paper thin. Not all of them, just a few. It would be impossible IMO for these ranches to try and switch these horses over to barefoot or boot everyone. One string has 54 horses, another 46, and the others are similar numbers.

It also makes me wonder about the "the foot will grow in response to the wear". I can't see it, with as many miles as these horses cover daily. Again, I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to be an option for them. Again, November to April they are turned out and barefoot all winter.

I'm seeing with the barefoot that the whole sole has pressure on it when the horse stands or moves, and the shoe lifts the frog off of the ground some. But if the horse lives in shavings or on a meadow, or is used in any arena footing the sole gets pressure that way. I do get that the hoof capsule cannot expand and contract as much as nature may want, but perhaps it's just going to be the trade off you have to live with.

As long as the farrier doesn't have the shoe supporting only the wall, instead of the sole's edge (supporting what needs supporting), to me the wider the shoe-the better, a shoe really protects the foot from the damage these sharp rocks can cause and the abrasion they see daily.

Now, in your case, it sounds like you need hip waders to keep dry! I'm all for barefoot, for the horse's natural existance and if you're only riding in "soft " areas. But I can see why your horse needs them in your case.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I wonder how wild horses that come from wet environments would do there. There are herds in the Florida swamps and I believe the Carolinas, and those white French horses that live in swamps. Their feet have adapted over the centuries to survive in wet conditions.

calatar

PasoBaby_CarolU

Thanks Alayna, that was interesting, and nice they included views of the feet. They seem to have more of a platter type foot for that terrain. Perhaps long toes are not a problem because all the environments are soft...sand, bog, and muck.

I figured the horse's adapted. It would be interesting to see those from France too, to see how they've adapted. They've been there much longer.

Mandy'sMarty

ForgeNHammer

Looks like a nice fit! Your farrier did a nice job.

Nashama

I'd keep that farrier, Mac. Nice job.

Savvy Learner, yes they can adapt barefoot, but the horse needs to start with good hooves and it takes around 2 years to condition the hooves fully for endurance distances. These horses are being ridden about 20-40km/day. The hooves actually do grow in response to the distances, the area riders consistently fall down on is that the horse's feet are not sufficiently conditioned to the terrain. Most riders, though, do show in the form of a boot. Delfire did most of his endurance on rocky gravel tracks completely barefoot and never pulled up foot sore. Body sore from his injuries before he arrived here was a different matter. It helps to start with a horse that has never been shod and is reared in rocky hill country.

Sunny

Hi Jules, yes, I have no doubt they could over time. I had my horses go shoeless this summer just to try it out. We got the Easyboot gloves and rode in those on the real rocky places. They worked well. The horses were fine around the neighborhood and in the arenas and on the dirt roads barefoot. Even bushwacking through the sage brush they were ok for the most part.

I think the problem I have though, is that they live in an irrigated meadow in the summers, as do a lot of horses around here. So the daily soak and dry cycles don't give them a chance to toughen up enough. She has real nice feet, but too soft for the rocks. I'd love to do the "pasture paradise" thing, but we board out and they aren't into changing their facilities.

Nashama

Yep, if they live on soft ground they have to be ridden out daily on gravel tracks. Something else they don;t teach you is you need to have your horse learn to look where he's going ie pick his own track. A lot of horses are so micromanaged they just go where the rider sends them. If you want to go completely bare the way we have for the last 25 years, then the horses need to be able and allowed to do that. When things are constantly wet, though (not our problem, sadly) or the horses are stabled then we do recommend boots and occasionally shoes.

Kim Cassidy

First off, good for you Carol, nice shoeing job.

Okay lots of stuff said here, thought I'd try to weigh in on one post instead of posting to each one

Please remember this is my opinion.

Someone said

oldmac_donald

RAD - THIS!! ^^ You said what I could not get down on (cyber) paper. You said it so nicely too.

I don't ride bareback much anymore, not because I'm afraid or that I can't (because I will, and can, and would do), but my horse doesn't like it. At ALL. It's not comfortable for her. If I rode her paddock buddy, who is built like a barrel (a real QH build), his backbone is so padded, that even if he was in poorer condition then the mare, he would be just as comfy to carry me as if I was in a saddle. My girl is in chubby condition at the moment (a rarity, YAY for speedibeet) and she still has a backbone which sits close to the surface, and doesn't get a layer of fat over it.

So I guess, whilst it would be nice to say "I ride bareback all the time, it's good for me and for my horse", in honesty, she would hate it. It would be so uncomfortable for her that she would carry me differently, which would lead to postural-related injuries and bad biomechanics. She'd become sour and possibly quite angry. I tested her out on New Year's, and by goodness was she not happy. I promised her then I wouldn't do it again. Even with a bareback pad, she still never felt as comfy as she does with a good saddle.

Sorry, completely OTT here but I guess what I meant to say is "horses for courses", and what is natural for one horse (and rider) is actually cruel for another.

Plus, have you ever had a horse's spine rub you raw up between the cheeks? Certainly adds an element of "attachment", but the post-ride walking thing is a right.... beep.