Mark Rashid's "Sitting The Trot"

ElaineW · Mark Rashid's "Sitting The Trot"

Hey everyone!
last night I got my copy of Mark Rashid's sitting the trot dvd..
I enjoyed the dvd,, it has good information. I didn't really care for how it was set up.. but I was able to learn from it anyhow.
Okay, my question is.. have anyof YOU tried this? well what i mean is, watched the dvd and tried to employ these movements he suggests for the human to do.
from what I can see, and I am still kinda sick and can't ride, he was able to sit any speed of trot with out posting..
I am really enjoying my giddyupflix subscription! hahaha
getting to see lots of different things..

ElaineW

No one has? out of 40 veiws not a one of you out there has seen this video? or been to one of his clinics? if not to ride, maybe to audit?
That brings on a question. who all HAS seen Mark Rashid's clinics?

jackspark

All I know about MR is through his books and I loved everyone of them. I will get that DVD, Elaine. I am kinda consumed with AK now and have all of her DVDs, (many) queued up from now through the summer

Not hard to sit a trot around here, 3 out of 4 are gaited and I put a real nice slow jog on the other

PasoBaby_CarolU

I'm with you Nancy...and if one of them trots, I put them back in gait. I used to have trotters and would work on and get a nice jog trot to ride. I never rode English so always sat a trot or stood a fast trot. I don't think my neck will take a trot now...

jackspark

I look at it this way, and I was raised in an english saddle, I love to post and enjoy a good quick trot to do just that. I also love sitting a great running walk. Why would I want to post a running walk or sit a trot? I do plan to take a look at MR DVDs, there might be a reason to learn that, at least some ideas for maybe making a more relaxed lower half

Blue Flame

I've audited MR but he didn't cover sitting trot at the ones I saw. A participant question did lead him into the the biomechanics of the walk and he went over the movement of the riders hips for a walk.

His clinic format doesn't have a set list of things to cover as he deals with one rider at a time for about an hour each day and tailors the hour to the horse and rider team individually. Then when he moves onto the next rider, the previous rider spends a further hour with his assistant.

There are 3 things he consistently starts with for every horse/rider pair though before continuing with anything else:

1) Physical assessment of the horse - he will not work with a horse that has pain or injury. Will refund money if he discovers a horse like this.

2) Rider breathing.

3) A SOFT backup.

Those 3 appeared to be absolute pre-requisites to get sorted before doing anything else.

I have read eslewhere that you should not sit a trot unless the horse is offering/using his/her back for the trot.

ElaineW

Thanks for the info ya'll!

misstux

After reading this, I went to giddyupflix and put most of his dvds in my queue.

Julie

I do wonder about the wisdom in using a horseman to teach a rider, rather than a great rider to teach the rider. Like Linda Parelli, is Rashid the person to teach the seat or are we expecting him to be all things to all men rather than a master of what he does best.

You sit the trot to ride and influence all 4 legs with an independant seat.

ElaineW

jackspark

Are the terms great horseman and great rider mutually exclusive? Is Linda Parelli a great rider? Just askin, I'd take

jackspark

ElaineW

PasoBaby_CarolU

Hertha

Don't have Giddyupflix down here so what I want to see I generally have to buy or borrow from kind friends.

Sitting trot is something I've always done as i did a lot of bareback riding when younger.

One good description I heard was to think of your lower spine as jelly and go with the flow.

I found Linda's 'balance point' concept made sense to me because it lightens the leg when you find it. If I'm riding in a saddle I know I have my personal 'balance point' when my feet are very light in the stirrup, in much the way they would be were I riding bareback.

I ride with a long stirrup more like the Spanish type riders I've seen.

Have only seen Mark Rashid's footfall DVD. It starts out not too bad but then tends to 'lose the viewer' with too much too fast and not enough footage of the things he is trying to explain.

From what I saw at local Western Riding shows (when i still used to go), few people can sit the jog, let alone the trot.

Linda had a good exercise with the rising trot where you imagine your lower back as a spring each time you come down - the spring compresses slightly backwards and sends you back up. I like to say, Boing, Boing, Boing, etc as I go along and it reminds me to loosen up.

If we can imagine our lower spine as a spring and learn to relax it totally, the butt will stay in the saddle. I think it also needs an awareness of the lateral movement of the horse's back muscles with each stride, and to get in synch with that too. The more we can let each hip move independently (from the other) with horse's movement, the easier it will be.

Remember Pat's exercise to rise, sit, and bounce at the trot. By doing the sit and the bounce, experimentation will find what the body needs to do in order to sit the jog.

An ideal way to learn it is to have someone lunge the horse while you experiment, so you can focus totally on what your body is doing and not worry about the horse.

stella

Well, I think doing something that active and physical well, and then having to verbalize/explain it so that everyone can understand it, especially when it has to do with feel, is difficult...even if you're a good rider(yes, you can be that an not a good horseman)or a good horseman(which, used to include the riding part, too! But, I'm an oldtimer)

I don't know if "jelly" and bouncing etc. can convey exactly. I think I like the CR visualization best, as being clearer....that you have to straighten from the BASE of the spine, which puts the rest of the bones in line.......and then let your muscles hang on that skeleton....and work with the inescapable force of gravity....just keep your muscles relaxed, and when you use them, use them by elongation, not by constriction. If you're going to be a "natural" rider, then you have to work with nature...and science! That force of gravity is inescapable, by either you or the horse.

If anything is "jelly," then I think it is going with the force of gravity, and not constricting against it. We do, in fact, have to have the body awareness of what all our individual parts are doing, AND have control over them; we do learn to "dance" with our horses...and in concert with natural law. Do as a dancer does, learn our own bodies, how to "use" our musculature and frames in a purposeful way, aware-and familiar-with all parts, and various ways to use them....after all, we're expecting exactly that type of control from our horses! (the least we can do is the same!)That's what makes riding such a very balanced, satisfying activity, between science and art, the physical and intellectual.

Yes, I agree, riding the long stirrup is most natural, and in cooperation with gravity. You have to let go to it, respect it, work with it. (sure ain't gonna beat it! so don't ignore it either-that's the big problem for most)

(While I might be in gaited horses longest, I must say, in my heyday, I could sit or post any trot(including park horses, extended, etc), it used to be the best part of my equitation(and, I started in western, anyway)...then I went on to a new frontier, so to speak. )

Laurie Archbold

Good morning
I got back from Mark's clinic not too long ago. I personelly worked on relaxing my back, breathing, sitting trot, and nice relaxed transitions.
All these things add up to a great picture for horse and rider

.
My breathing helped me relax my lower back,thou I still had to concetrate to relax alot at first. Never realized how tense my back got, hence I would post because it didn't feel good to sit. So I got the back soft, and would exhale when asking for the trot and wholla and nice transistion into a sitting trot. I kept contact with the horse so they couldn't stick their nose out, so they softened too. Hope I'm saying this right...lol
Oh I finally got where the horses feet would land too!!! I'm stoked!

There is alot of importance of a relaxed lower back in order to sit the trot, hence to need to breathe right too. For instance breathe in for 4 or 5 count and out for 5 or 6 count, we have more muscle to breathe out. I found out some interesting stuff about myself. For one, I had to work up to that count and then I would yawn too( kind of embarrusing there). I'll look a little silly to get it right. I do have lower back problems but I was alright to do the sitting trot as long as my back was relaxed. As soon as I tightened there went the soft feel. We got better each day and it was nice. I got to the point where as long as I was breathing my back would relax. The time just got longer and longer. I'm talking minutes here; I went from 30 seconds to like 2 minutes and just a little longer. I was not riding my horse but this big ole quarter horse who loved to lean and I mean lean on the bit. Once I got him to soften then we could made progress and quickly.. MY horse for what ever reason had glitch in her back and am thankful it was spotted by Mark the second day of the 1st session so no riding her.
I was at this clnic for( 2) 3 day session.

Anyways that is my take on sitting the trot and honestly the breathing and relaxing the back applies to me riding alot better and less discomfort.

Laurie

ShannonE

Laurie thanks so much for that explanation. I'm another one suffering from back pain after a ride and haven't been able to pin down exactly why. My instructor did tell me that my legs are not underneath me so whether I can feel it or not I'm bracing in my stirrups which then puts me completely out of alignment. It doesn't help that both young horses I am riding are very downhill right now and we're struggling to get my saddle level.

I hope to ride in the next couple of days so I'm going to really work on my breathing and see if that helps my back to relax.

Shannon

Peeperpuppy

Before the car accident, anytime I would start having pain in my back while riding, the first thing I did was get out of my stirrups & ask my horse to move out. I'd focus on my low back & feeling the horse's movement. I never try to make my body do what theirs is, I just focus on them & soon enough I'm fluid with them but it requires relaxation at that gait. If you're in a safe area or you have someone who can put the horse on a line you can shut your eyes so that you're not distracted from the feel of things.

One of Grandpa's tricks was to have me sing. Yeah, I know... it was like a Roy Rogers movie. Never knew when someone would just break out in song. I don't know that it works for everyone, I know that I personally can't carry a tune in a 5-gallon bucket if I'm tight in my abs or low back. I have to get loose & in sync with the horse for the music to sound good. He knew I could sing so if I were working on my own he'd tell me when I got to a certain point in the song... something was off.

Post car accident, I can't always feel my legs & it's a bit like having to start all over again

darned pinched nerves!

Laurie Archbold

Shannon Mark also mentioned about NOT sitting on your pockets and that it makes your feet go out a bit and then you are not alined , hence there is discomfort! I know someone high up in Parelli said to do this..

I wish I could show you about the feel in the reins we did. This just added to what I learned with Brent. Hopefully Mark will come next year. Between him and Brent Graef I feel pretty good about what is happening and just need to keep practicing till its like breathing. OH, be sure to practice breathing like this any time you think of it, not just riding..

Hmm, sing sounds good as long as no one is around..lol

laurie

stella

I agree Laurie, that if you aren't sitting centered on ends of your pelvic bone(so your jean seams are perpendicular to the ground), and you're on your "jean pockets"-sitting more to your tailbone, your body will subconsciously "counterbalance" by having you put weight in your feet, usually by putting them forward, to m/l "equalize" your weight distribution to maintain balance. Its simple physics that we don't think much about consciously, but as riders should.

Shannon, the thing that will help you most will be to get your saddle level on your young horses. Same principle-because the saddle runs 'downhill" in front, its throwing your balance off, too...so that you can't sit perpendicular to the ground(force of gravity)in a relaxed, normal way. To keep you from "falling forward," you're bracing yourself with your legs in the stirrups to help keep your body straight(and back feel worse if you ride without stirrups). Its your body's natural instinct to stay upright, consciously or not. The tension on your body and those muscles to be in this "countering" position the entire time, is probably the main reason for your back pain.

I agree with peeperpuppy, keeping focus on your horse, to help you relax and become more fluid with him/her. What helps about breathing and also singing, is the amount that you wind up exhaling.
When you exhale, you can't tense your muscles, you can't operate body, legs, hands, etc. by means of constriction, you can't stay stiffened, you can only "use" your muscles by elongation,keeping your limbs,etc m/l "dead weight," allowing the forces of gravity to "help" you with your horse, and not fight what's really and simply natural.
Actually, you can find all this stuff in the original Centered Riding book. Of course, I think it goes back to Newton's apple, and then to Muybridge's work not just on horse's gaits, but human movement and balance as well, in the late 1800s. Riding is both science and art.

ShannonE

Peeper, I tried the singing and it was just awful. Even the horse gave me a dirty look so I obviously can't carry a tune.

Riding without stirrups helped though so I'd ride for a bit without and then put my feet back in.

Laurie I agree that the riding on your pocket thing is junk. It shifted everything so far back it was ridiculous. I so wish I could get to Brent's clinic in July but I haven't got anyone to look after the farm for me.

Stella I'm working on getting the saddles level. I have it figured out for my own colt, but the mare I'm also riding still needs a final tweaking. I have Sally Swift's Centered Riding and have read it several times.

In my case a lot of my problems probably come for not having ridden in 3-4 years. I'm finally back in the saddle but on green horses so I imagine there has been a lot of tension in me. Early last week my friend and I rode (both of us on green horses) and we both worked on keeping our bodies/legs where they should be. I had so much back pain after the ride that I had to come home and medicate.

Our next ride we both pretty much threw everything out the window and simply concentrated on enjoying ourselves and relaxing. Low and behold, no pain. It appears that the more time I spend in the saddle the better things get.

Shannon

TrustMeNaturally

Hey there, Elaine!
I watched the video a few weeks ago and have taken quite a bit of what mark said and put it into practice when I ride Eddie. It has really helped! I finally got the 'swing' of things yesterday when we trotted a lap bareback. So far, what he teaches in the saddle can relate to bareback as well, which I'm excited about! Anyway, I really, really liked how he explained our balance and if we look up, we have a better chance of staying balanced. He talked about it at the clinic last month too. But yeah, it really works. Like a lot of things, it takes some practice, but once I got it, it was easy to sit.
Hope that you get to ride your Levi soon!

~Lea

sebocat

I am so adding this to the que.

as a side-note, and I can't remember where I picked this up, but I carry a lot of tension in my neck and shoulders. When I started to focus on loosening up there and lost the death grip on the reins, my horse and I BOTH softened. He has an amazing jog that I never enjoyed before because I was interfering. It started with relaxing my breathing.

I am making baby steps toward improvement on my own(can't take lessons this year due to high vet bills) so I look forward to checking out what MR has to add to the equation

tchofclas

So often we are holding our breath without even realizing it, and that is something you can't do and sing at the same time. Much like screaming on a rollacoaster prevents you holding your breath. (But I don't recommend screaming on a horse

)
I found Margaret Cabel Self's explanation of tenseness at the trot the best I've ever come across. She compared it to a well inflated beach ball, bounces all over the place, but let some air out of the ball until it becomes soft, (like a relaxed muscle), you can't get it to bounce. Now I realize relax on command is next to impossible, my chiropractor illustrates this every visit, but probably even reciting something like Mary had a little lamb would stop one holding their breath, and make relaxation easier. Every student I've ever explained this to has quickly become better at the sitting trot.
Charlotte

PasoBaby_CarolU

Thank you Charlotte, THAT was indeed very helpful. Good analogy.

shelbie350

Charlotte, I love the beach ball explanation.

Elaine, thank you for this thread in general. I have read all of Mark's books, and he lives here in Colorado, but have not ever been to a clinic. Maybe I will add that my 2012 clinic dream list. I too have struggled learning to "ride" with PNH.

The Sally Swift Centered Riding is a great book, but I read it so long ago, I am reminded that I should read it again. Coming from a pretty "bracey" place in my riding, I will never forget her explanation of the the lower leg relaxation. A person with no legs below the knees can ride just fine. She goes on to explain the lower leg should gently swing from the knee like a clock pendulum but have no impact on "balance" especially coming from the stirrup.

tchofclas

Interesting comment about person with no leg below the knee. I remember reading about Bazy Tankersley of Almarah Arabians, in Maryland at the time, hiring Vietnam Vets (dating myself here) to work with her horses, and though I don't remember which magazine had the pics, there was one trainer who was just such an amputee, and showed as well. Really makes you think, doesn't it?
Charlotte

Julie

Centred riding is by far the best book for this work.!

whisperingwindfarms

My local instructor said she's going to make a 30 minute tape with different sections for walking, trotting and loping. All she's going to say is "breathe in" and "breathe out" but in time for each gait.

I tend to get very tense and stiff at the lope so we had a loping lesson about 6 weeks ago. She was constantly telling me to breathe, round my back and "watch" my elbows. I was trained in 2 point so that explains my issues trying to "sit" a lope.

Remembering to breath and put my elbows where they belong has made all the difference. Breathing is very much overlooked!