Maybe seedy toe or some kind of separation

Pyrgirl · Maybe seedy toe or some kind of separation

I'm dealing with something that is confusing me and not sure how to continue.
My minis went through about 4 months last year without hoof trimming due to an accident I had. When I finally was able to take care of them again, their feet had grown long, but also some of them were sort of lopsided. The length wasn't totally crazy - the funny angle concerned me the most. I started addressing the crookedness immendiately. It has taken almost the entire year, but they are now fairly well balanced - not perfect yet, but pretty good. Frogs are healthy, and concavity is good. The old growth is gone and the new stuff is straight. I'm pleased with that. Only thing that I haven't been able to fix yet is the way the hoof wall has separated away in some places. Dirt gets in these areas and seems to keep it from going back to being tight all around. It may have been caused by the funny angle they were at last year, or maybe something else.

How can I get that fixed? If I could find some kind of product to put in the "cracks" or "pits" after cleaning them out thoroughly, perhaps that would give it a chance to grow back? Any ideas?

Blue Flame

Do you mean the dirt is driving up into the whiteline like a wedge and causing sepeartion?

I've heard someone tell of mixing window putty with a little tea tree oil for such things as pluging up hoof holes.

cokey

I don't know if you can get it in the US, but this stuff is BRILLIANT for white line separation (and also for deep infected central sulcus - brings them open in a week..!)

http://www.red-horse.co.uk/index....w=article&id=72&Itemid=58

All of their products are fab and actually work.

It's a complete bugger to use - I recommend prising a little out of the pot with a tiny screwdriver - but it stays in the holes it's put in, and has anti-nastiness properties to combat any infections.

appellativo

you said, " Dirt gets in these areas and seems to keep it from going back to being tight all around. It may have been caused by the funny angle they were at last year, or maybe something else."

I would say on my first impression that the connection would be bad enough to ALLOW the dirt coming in, but if the horse is growing in good quality hoof, no 'DIRT' could PREVENT the well connected wall growing in together.

That said, it is possible that with the separation, dirt and bacteria getting up there would possibly allow fungus to be constantly eating away at the healthy tissue trying to grow in. So, that hoof stuff looks interesting...and you may consider a type of regular antibacterial soaking. I believe on hoofrehab.com there is instructions for regular soaking, what to use, etc. to help with this type of problem....

Pyrgirl

Pyrgirl

appellativo

if u can't find it I'll dig in my notes...

jokersmama

My gelding Spanky does something that sounds similar, when his wall gets down far enough above his sole the white line and wall separate and it looks like there is white line then a ring of dirt then the wall.

I'm not really sure WHY but it's only the old growth past the sole and is not acting like a wedge for the new growth although I suppose left to it's own devices it could.

I've been taking a wire brush to it daily and spraying apple cider vinegar on it, just in case

I'll see if I can get pics, maybe it's the same as what you are experiencing?

Pyrgirl

Blue Flame

Are we maybe talking about what has been called a confused whiteline?

jokersmama

Well I'm confused does that count??

Didn't get pics yet I'm working on it

jokersmama

Here is one of Spanky's hinds you can see the separation between the white line and the wall.

It gets packed with dirt but this is wire brushed and hosed out.

Here is a close up of his left front

Is this what your horses hooves are doing?

I have white lightning on the way to soak his hooves in.

Kim Cassidy

Joker,

I'm curious why you are soaking?

That looks like a stretched WL and no amount of soaking fixes that

If you were to trim that foot all the way down to the sole and then some, you'd find a tighter WL (although it could still be stretched).

jokersmama

Just for peace of mind

Been fighting white line in Pistol's hoof and don't want that to happen here but it's mostly gone after this trim still little bits of separation here and there.

After trim

Pyrgirl

Yes, that's what mine look like, too, only worse.

I ordered some of the Hoof Stuff from the UK that was recommended and have been using it for the last two days.
I clean out the separation areas, dry them, and then pack this stuff into it.
It seems to stay in quite well. It is an anti-microbial pack made of zinc oxide, honey, fiber, and 2 kinds of anti-microbial agents. I'm not sure if this will be sufficient. Is the problem bacteria? fungus? Do I have to keep it clean and bacteria free and then wait for it to grow out?

I'll try and get pictures, but no promises. It's all I can do to get this stuff into the feet in the blazing heat. There is one good thing about the weather - there is no mud to aggravate the hoof situation while I try and treat it!

thebundychick

I learnt a really huge lesson yesterday about seedy toe. As most of you know, I've been fighting it for years in my horse. I inherited a seedy toe infection that ran all the way through the white line / outer wall and all th way up to the coronet.

i've tried that many cures and given up that many times that i was seriously considering having his feet resected.

For the last two months, I've been seeing him every day, cleaning out his feet applying metho and keeping his trim up to date.

yesterday a local Cytek farrier came out - to trim another womans horse. This woman has been raving about this guy for weeks. I stood, I listened, I asked questions, and it became very quickly apparent that this guy had done his research, and he really knew his stuff. He seemed to quote word for word all the info that I had been reading about trimming / lameness / the importance of short toes / heel length etc etc. So. I told him about my horses seedy toe. His first answer -- Your toes are to long. He said the initial cause of seedy toe was not fungal. It was toe length. It was like flicking your fingernail against a table edge until it pulled & bled and then got infected.

I told him that i simply didn't have the guts to go back further, that his feet were so short as it is and I was already copping criticism from other trimmers etc etc. He said he understood that, but didn't change the fact that sante's toes were to long.

He came to the valley to shoe one horse. He left 9 hours later after trimming 4 and shoeing another 8. Simply because people heard what he was saying and it made sense. which was basically, do a bloody good barefoot trim, and then put the "sole support" shoes on, not the rim shoes.

I watched him trim 12 horses yesterday. 9 of which he shod with Cytek shoes. Every single one of these horses walked in lame, and walked out sound. So i bought sante over. He commended me on my trimming, and told me that I was mostly there, had good soundness in the feet, VERY VERY good sole thickness for a thoroughbred but - the toes were to long.

After picking up sante's feet, he understood why i was scared to take anymore off the foot. Sante's feet a freaking TINY for a 16.2h thoroughbred.

He took off everything up to the white line. Sante responded to the trim by offering me the most awesome transitions I have ever experienced. So soft, so willing, such a droolworthy stride. His "paddling" in the front feet disappeared as well.

He stressed the importance of unloading the wall in the case of seedy toe. And that while I had been doing a good job, he still had too much toe.

Can't tell you what an awesome revelation it was for me yesterday. To talk to ALL day to a farrier who firmly beleived there is nothing on the bottom of a horses foot that shouldn't touch the ground, and that toe length was the bane of all evil in horses.

Incidently. He told me not to put Cyteks on Sante. said if he's not lame, and doens't refuse to go forward then he doesn't need shoeing.

I finally feel like I'm fully equiped to beat this thing.

Chablis

Woot! Congratulations! That guy sounds like a gem.

thebundychick

Mangoes

Good job in finding him. I recently "sacked" my barefoot trimmer as I had similar thoughts to what your guy is saying.

My standardbred had feet like a platypus. Heels were too low and toes too long. In the end my trimmer couldn't get on top of the crack that ran all the way to the coronet band. With it seedy toe and in the end abscesses.

This horse was really sound when I got him and my husband was trimming him after a demonstration from a very well respected trimmer. Unfortunately he couldn't take any more clients but someone told me about this fellow who claimed to have trained with the respected one.

I then sold Scooter and this fellow was trimming Turbo. After 9 months he couldn't get a handle on the cracks in his hooves which were getting worse. In May I sold Turbo and the new owner boarded him with me and had their farrier come and shoe him. Problem solved for him.

Fortunately for me I am now a client of the new farrier who is just brilliant.

Charlie, my new boy, had foundered earlier in the year before I bought him and after just two trims by my new farrier his feet are looking amazing.

Still a long way to go as the new hoof grows but the future looks promising.

Chablis

Hey Mangoes, is the trimmer you mentioned a local? I'm just wondering if I used him in the past. scratch

One trimmer was doing a great job then decided to experiment on my horses as well as my friends horses - all 4 horses went from sound to lame in one trim.

I am happy with the new trimmer but would you minding passing on your farrier's details? It would be good to know that there is a decent farrier I may be able to call if my trimmer can no longer trim my horses hooves for some reason.

appellativo

I hope all four of you were really sure to tell him his experiments don't work or else he will do it to other horses!

Chablis

thebundychick

Ok - after a heck of a lot of thought, research, soul searching etc etc I have decided to put shoes back on my horse.

I've been watching this Cytek farrier work every weekend for the last month, and have been watching the 20+ horses he's shod in that time, walk in lame, and canter out sound. And have decided to run a foot experiment.

On saturday I got Cytek shoes put on my horse. The reason i'm posting this here, is because i'm doing in order to fix his seedy toe. I intend to create a new thread for this and keep it updated with weekly / fortnightly pictures

Chablis

thebundychick