Pasture ponder

bit · Pasture ponder

First of all, these are the things this crazy woman (me) thinks about, out in the pasture. I really hope ya'll will share your take on things. So, I was thinking...
I wondered what it would be like to be a cow. You know, what do they think about all day? What goes through their minds? What would it be like to put myself in a cow body for a few minutes to experience cowdom? Then I thought, oh crap, veto that. I'd probably get into that body and forget who I am and be trapped! Then, are ya with me? I wondered if that might be what it's like, anyway. We wonder what it would be like to be in A body, this body, this life, so we go for it. Then we get trapped, forget who we are until death do we part ways with said body. That whole lifetime, we sit there trying to recall who we are, what we know, and it's like trying to remember a dream, ya know? Just like the cows, but with better toys and more freedom...for some. For some a slaughter house would be an improvement. For some, they are California happy cows, and get to make cheese. For some, they get to hang out in a dairy, make more cows and never know what it's like to live in a pasture. See where I'm going with this? How different are we than the cows? Trapped in a body with no memory of who we are?

coveredbridgefarm

Deb, I'm right there with you, I think. I have often wondered what cows think, having been around cows my entire life. I think they would feel trapped if they were in a feedlot, or tied up in a barn. My cows are out on pasture 24/7. I like to believe that I have provided a good natural life for them. However, I still usually sell off their calves every year which results in the cow's mourning of the loss of the thing that is most important to them, their babies. So, at best, I only provide them with a mostly natural lifestyle. What do they think about that? Good question.

I have had things happen with my cows over the years that indicate to me that they have a depth of feeling that man is unaware of, or unconcerned about. For example, a few years ago, I heard a cow bawling out on the back pasture. A quick glance at the cow told me that she had just calved but the calf was nowhere to be seen. While I was looking for the calf, the cow was watching me intently but not moving. Then suddenly, as I was headed across a creek, I heard the sound of thundering hooves behind me. I turned around and saw that cow running in my direction but to my side about 10' or so. She ran at considerable speed right past me until she was at the base of a large oak tree along the side of the creek. Then she turned and stood motionless, her eyes on me intently.

I figured this behavior was related to her calf so I had to decide whether to venture in her direction and risk being charged by her as she protected her calf or to investigate further. It was one of those decisions that only experience can help you with. I finally judged that she wasn't warning me to stay away but rather, actually seemed to be inviting me to come closer.

I was still a bit apprehensive but I figured I could use that oak tree to keep her away from me if I had to and she was giving me a few feet of distance from the tree anyway. That was part of the inviting nature of the situation.

When I arrived at the tree, I was able to see a newborn calf laying there and I could see that it looked stillborn. I looked at the cow who was now observing me not just with intensity but with what seemed to be a spark of hope or a pleading with me to do something. She had relied on me to feed her and to water her. My thought was that I was viewed as the provider of all things. Maybe, possibly, she was thinking that I could provide life to her newborn baby.

So I walked around to her calf, thus placing myself within maybe 6' of the cow, knelt down and felt of the calf for signs of life. But there were no signs of life. The calf was clearly dead. Now, maybe I was just experiencing an overly active imagination but I suddenly found myself dreading the thought of having to face that cow and telling her that her calf was dead. Maybe I was picking up something from that cow. It felt like I could feel her eyes on my back as though she was expecting a miracle to occur and I was no longer worried about an attack from her.

I actually had to force myself to face that cow. What I really wanted to do was just walk off and spend some time feeling sorry for myself that I had just suffered a loss of some income with the loss of the calf. But the feeling I was getting from the cow was so intense that it just didn't feel like the right thing to do so I turned and that cow and I stared into each others' eyes for a few seconds and I swear that I saw the hope in her eyes change to sadness as though she had read my mind and she now knew that all hope was lost. We must have faced each other like that for a couple of minutes until finally I sensed such a deep sadness from her that it became more than I was prepared to withstand. I stood up and walked away, glancing back a number of times to see the cow, now standing over her dead calf at the base of the large oak tree by the side of the creek, appearing only now to be resigned to accept the death of her newborn baby.

As I said, maybe it was my imagination but it's also possible that cows, like horses, experience many of the same emotions that humans do, and they are only left to wonder if man will ever recognize their feelings.

Was that anthropomorphism or was it just my imagination? I honestly don't know, but it felt real, and if it was real, a whole lot of people owe a whole lot of cows a big apology for the way they have been treated.

So Deb, I guess, instead of really answering your question, I may have asked another one: Who is more trapped, the cow for being unable to alter their lot in life, or mankind for being unable to recognize the cow's lot in life?

Or maybe that was your question.

Larry

Blue Flame

I have no doubt that cows have feelings just like horses and dogs. I love watching calves play.

A workmate inherited a cow on a farm he bought. It had been a family pet. It would come running up and bounce around like a puppy whenever the people returned home - all 600kg of bounciing puppy-joy.

Another freind once said that when you love a cat - you give it a soul. I don't know about that, but I certainly have observed that when you are considerate of an animal, they show you characteristics you initially didn't expect. They are no longer indifferent towards you.

I think once an animal decides that you care, they open up to you - allow themselves to be a little bit vulnerable - but can get a bit cheeky as well.

That's a very touching story Larry. The workmate I mentioned about got his arm broken one day when he got between cow and calf. In the past year or so I have accidentally run over two young birds, a quail and a pied stilt - you expect them to just get out the way but the young ones often haven't learned how to yet. Saw a seagull explode on some power lines once as well. In all cases, the companions of those birds showed definite distress and it is as sad for me as if a human stranger had died. Sadder sometimes because I wonder if they understand.

As I write this it is just coming light at 6:45am on a frosty winter morning and our 2 labradors are curled up on the couch beside me. These ultimate family dogs are so giving of themselves that I wonder just what it is THEY see in US. As has been said before. I'd like to be the person my dogs think I am.

I don't know if I could actually be a farmer without becoming a vegetarian - then again . . .

PasoBaby_CarolU

Interesting thread Deb. I also lived among cows for many years, hand raising several batches of dairy steers. The first I raised with four bummer lambs. He was a little confused, thought he was a sheep. He would bawl for his sheep and all the cows would come running and he was terrified of them! It took him some time to figure out he was a cow...and he always yearned for his lambs.

I do not know what a wild cow is or where they came from. Are there still wild cows? I wonder how they are in nature. All our cows are domestic, and even our wild range cows don't know what it is really like to be wild, they have been domestic so long. How much do calves enjoy being roped repeatedly? I saw one once run out of the chute and lay down without being roped...he went off to feedlot.

We had a cow I raised name Sheldon. She was half Angus and half Holstein. She was our milk cow and I put dairy calves on her also. You could ride her and she did tricks. She was very much like you describe Sandy, delighted with her humans.

Of course the cows who break my heart are veal calves I can't eat veal. I think it is a heartless thing to do to an animal, any animal.

As humans, we aren't very empathetic to other animals. Not terribly bright either. There was an animal rights person on Facebook arguing against the deer hunt. Said it was cruel. Said people should just buy meat at the store! See, not too bright.

becdubie

Well I've never wondered what it's like to be a cow...but I think they can come to like people, if they aren't mistreated. And yes people mistreat cows. What Carol brought up about being roped over and over for sport. YUCK....I quit going to rodeos because of that..saw someting really sad happen to a young calf. Did not really enjoy that part of the Buck clinic last weekend either.
The deserve to be treated with respect and given the most natural life possible, like Larry does. Nothing makes me happier than watching the baby calves run and play out the fields in the spring. I love driving through our big open spaces between towns here in Montana and seeing the herds of cattle out grazing out in 100's of acres. Some laying down chewing their cuds...the babysitter for the calves so the mama's can have some "alone time" is the best. Cows have souls and should not be penned up in knee deep muck getting as fat as possible eating corn, then shipped to the grocry store. I believe they are for us to eat, but we need to treat them with respect.

I don't buy beef very often, but when I do I pay for the grass fed range cows from the natural ranch here in Choteau. We eat almost all wild game at my house.

oh and this person...

jackspark

Very nice you all! Yes I have wondered what it would be like to be many different species. I don't like the word anthropomorphism; people use it to keep others of us from believing in ourselves and what we, intrinsically, know to be true.

Clarissa

This type of thinking is at the heart of the Australian Animal Welfare push to stop the live export trade. Most Aussie farmers now use much gentler techniques to raise their stock so they are not bruised or tough when they go to slaughter. However the Indonesian or general muslim nations have no such sentimentality & routinely torture the animal to death in the name of religion. These are aussie animals that have learned to trust the humans around them.

As a kid my family had friends who ran a butchery & raised their own cattle. At slaughter time the steers were moved into these rich pasture paddocks directly behind the butcher shop. As required the animal was lined up in the butcher's rifle sights & shot as it ate. It dropped dead instantly onto lush grass & was bled & skinned & the carcass moved into the shop within minutes to be hung in the cold room with no bruising or stress involved. Same applied to his sheep which he purchased then ran in a special paddock to settle for a few weeks prior to slaughter.

What little meat we ate came from that shop.

lizloveshorses

Deb, this was just what I needed to read this morning. I believe that we are all trapped in our physical bodies and just trying to remember who we are, which is divine. A lot of people don't ever get there. That's why I think there's re-incarnation, so that the soul has time to learn something new in each lifetime. That's where "old souls" come from. But that's just my thoughts on it. I had never compared it to cows, but the analogy fits perfectly. Thanks for giving me something beautiful and interesting to think of this morning!

bit

In the book, Equis (and don't remember how she came to know this) when a horse dies, he goes as an individual but joins the spirit of horse, and becomes one. Maybe what the horse does, is join right back up with God. Not just the spirit of the horse, but the part of God that is the horse. Are ya following me? No reincarnation necessary. They are like angel in a way, teachers, watchers, messengers. Maybe it's why they know so much about love, being in the moment, seeking balance, and being at one with all that surrounds them. Maybe that's why when some of us look at a horse, what we really see is a way of being we've forgotten. A place we long to be, within ourselves. All those "dumb" animals are more evolved than we can possibly imagine. It's us, we egotistical, jugemental, cruel, messed up humans that are out there in the big pasture that is life, dumbly chewing our cud and not realizing who we are, where we are, why we are here or what life is for. We judge, we hurt, we kill, we humans...are the least of all evolved souls. Even the ants live as one. The bees. We aren't even as smart as ants.

bit

ok, another pasture ponder for you. My daughter is not very tolerant of religion, especially if she thinks she sees some kind of "rediculous, blindly following indivdual with no..." well, you get it. Her boyfriend is muslim. She knows this is a temporary arrangement. She could never tolerate that culture or lifestyle. She told me her boyfriend "actually believes that if your mother is mad at you when you die, you go to hell until she forgives you". I think I said something like, "well, you better not piss me off" or something to that effect. He prays five times a day and uses a compass to make sure he is facing Mecca. If ya don't, doesn't count. Muslim religion it seems is kind of on a point system, more points mean more heaven I guess.
This got me thinking. If we create our reality by the choices we make in this life, could we also create our hereafter too? There is power in ritual. If millions of muslems have been performing a ritual for 1000's of years, doesn't it create reality? At least for those individuals? Maybe there is a pergatory for catholics. Because they know it to be so, and so it is.
I've had an out of the body, death type experience. I had no preconcieved idea of heaven, so my experience was my own. If I had believed a certain thing would happen, is that what I would have experienced? Is this why there can be different out of the body experiences?
And...if you believe a certain way, like here, can you change your mind and change your experience? If you are dead, your experience is lets say pergatory, can you change your mind and experience something else? Know what I mean? I know that what we think "is", is so much more than what we can wrap our brains around.
Kinda like horsemanship. Tom Dorrance is kinda the Gahdi of horses, I think. He's like a holy man of horses, because his understanding goes so much deeper than ours. I remember going to sufi retreats and just sitting in the same room with the Pir could take you places you'd never be able to find by yourself. When we ride with great horsemen, (disclaimer:Buck is not a God. He's more of a Ghandi.) just being there with them, riding with them, I ride better. My horse is better. Eclpse does not DO 25 people in an arena. She freaks. Never saw her that soft. Brent Greaf can and does use energy to help horses and people in a clnic. When I cried and wanted to give up? He said to wait, a breakthrough was coming. It did. Something to ponder.

jackspark

Not much time to ponder right now but I sure do love readin' yer stuff!

coveredbridgefarm

Deb wrote:

jackspark

I think the ANSWER is just a personal one and probably not the same for all...... so as soon as it fits, wear it

coveredbridgefarm

Nancy, I think one of the problems that people have with that perspective is that they desire/need validation of their beliefs which they tend to rely on society to provide. They look for social groups to belong to, or people to follow, or some other kind of sign that their path is socially validated. Or in a lot cases, they are trying to avoid social disapproval.

I know that in metaphysics, and in some psychological circles as well, it is believed that by the age of 7 people have lost their connection with the source of their creation and are totally socialized(influenced totally by social values). So, the natural tendency to follow the intuitive directions of the subconscious mind that one is born with has been replaced by man-made or social directives within 7 years. For example, people aren't born with racist beliefs based on skin color. The seeds of those beliefs are socially acquired, usually early in life. That example would probably work better decades ago when communities were more isolated and not linked by mass media as they are today. But the basic theory still applies: People learn to become less and less connected to the natural and more and more connected to the social very early in childhood. That may explain why animals often connect more easily to young children. They share more of an intuitive, subconscious view of life with young children than they do with adults or even older children.

This path that some of us seek with something that has been labeled natural horsemanship is no different. Try telling a group of people who have been successful in the show ring that they should change some of their ways and learn to look at things more from the horse's point of view and see what kind of reaction you get. Your attempt to get people to return to the natural will probably result in a somewhat uncomfortable experience and you may find yourself on forums like this one looking for validation of your NH views.

It is very challenging for most people to continue to chart an independent and intuitive course completely devoid of social validation. That's not the way they/we have been trained.

Larry

Clarissa

bit

I can say, when I asked God for help, he sent me horses. You can spend your whole life going to therapy, or you can get a horse. Lots of money, either way. One way is a bit more fun and actually works. Happened to me.
Is nh a religion of sorts? Nope. Horses don't judge me. Horses have been a lot like angels. Harsh teachers and gentle guides, the ultimate in living by example. Patient teachers, perfect mirrors.
Seems just the right human shows up at the exactly right time, when I can't seem to find my way with horses, and life. Buddahs, wise sage's, whatever, they come.
It's been horses that have helped me learn what very messed up parents neglected to teach. It's been horses that healed those horrible wounds, the anger, the bottomed out self esteem, the pain. And, they inspire a lot of pasture ponders.
Final note. I feel pretty safe shaing my woo woo views here on spirit of the horse. Please don't post what I say here on the normal part of this forum. I'd like to know what's posted in spirit, stays in spirit.

ErinR76

"It is very challenging for most people to continue to chart an independent and intuitive course completely devoid of social validation. That's not the way they/we have been trained."

This is so true. Shafin De Zane calls it 'socio-cultural brainwash' and ain't that the truth!!

And Deb, regarding your ponder about 'is heaven what we think it is going to be?' all I have to say to that, is, have you been reading Neal Donald Walsh?

He says that in one of his conversations with God, he says that whatever you expect to see right after you die, you pretty much see. Not as if you are experiencing it, but you are observing it. The minute you stop to think that there might be another option, you are freed from it. The mind really is the only prison...only we can imprison ourselves spiritually with our limiting beliefs. I can't say enough to those who are curious about these sorts of things to check out Journey of Souls (Michael Newton), Neal Donald Walsch (Home with God, and the Conversations with God books). I've been blessed to find these 'opinions' expressed by others that are so much in line with what I intuitively know.

On the amnesic block that we experience, really, it couldn't be any other way. We have to come in on a clean slate so that we can concentrate on the task at hand, not get sidetracked dwelling on the past.

I believe that the human experience provides such a unique experience for spiritual growth. Living as an animal just doesn't get you that kind of growth. They are perfect, in a way. There has to be expressions of god as perfection in so many other ways, and there has to be expressions of less than perfection in order for a deeper growth to occur. Sort of like could you see white writing on a white page? No. There's a need for contrast that the human experience (with mind, body, ego blended with spirit) gives birth to. What good is it to know who you are if nobody else does? What good is it to know you are perfection, love etc if there is no way to EXPERIENCE it?

Think about the quote, One day, all will know that HE is God. Think of the dual meaning, then think about how the dual meanings really mean one thing.

coveredbridgefarm

I don't think of NH as a religion. I just think of it as an attempt to gain a connection(reconnection, actually) to the natural world, or 'to the earth' as I think Carol has used the term in other threads. People(generally) are significantly disconnected. We/they seek reconnection through horses, but it only works if it is done with the horse's perspective in mind because they, unlike us, are still connected.

Larry

bit

Ah, another ponder, another cow. There's a black and white cow up the road, and she lives with a bunch of different black cows. I noticed she was in a separate place, by herself for several days, and I wondered if she was sick. Why was she being kept alone? Yesterday when I drove by, she was with the other cows. One black and white cow among a bunch of angus cows. I remarked to Tony, "Oh good, that black and white cow is back in with the rest of the cows!" I wondered out loud why she might have been separated. He said that she was probably getting pushed around and picked on.
"Because she was sick?"
"No, because one of them got it in their head that they should and all the other cows just followed." It's a cow thang, apparantly.
I thought about how that happens in human society. School bullies, starts with one and everyone sorta gets this pack mentality and picks on the one kid. Make no mistake, bullies are unacceptable. Still...maybe this isn't a learned behavior, exclusivly. Maybe it comes from the most primitave part of ourselves. Our inner cow? More like our inner cave man.
My grandpa said that the runt of the litter is usually the smartest. And yet, in nature that runt is pushed off the food and unless their is some kind of intervention, it dies. Stay with me. The kid that gets picked on, the nerd, is often the most intelligent. The bully? That's the hunter/gather strong guy. Not real smart, but a neandrathol of a dude that strikes fear and a warped sense of respect from all. High school doesn't end at high school. Happens in the work place. Happens all throughout life.
Now I'm thinking, bullies were the ones that survived. God help us, the breeders. Brawn ruled over brains. I think things are changing. Maybe we are evolving, and the bully is no longer seen as powerful. He's seen as a jerk. Intelligence is rewarded, desired, sought. The runt is seeing a whole new day.
I was thinking about how with horses, the lead mare is not the bully. Who is she? Intellligent, aware, calm...the qualities of the runt.
Ok, so then I hear this voice in my head, a conciousness that seemed rather delighted at my ponder today...and I quote "And the meek shall inheret the earth". Now wouldn't THAT be something?

coveredbridgefarm

Deb wrote:

PasoBaby_CarolU

Have you seen this Deb?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g

If you follow his reasoning, the bullies are a little farther behind 'us' on the evolutionary tree. We don't all evolve at the same rate.

ErinR76

WOW!!! That is amazing!! I LOVE IT! See. It IS possible to save the world. I knew it. Let's get to work!

jackspark

thebundychick

I am convinced that cows, like horses have highly developed mental & emotional responses, just as humans do.

As Clarissa mentioned, there is a huge furore going on in Australia about the Banning of Live Exports. Basically, we spoil our cows rotten here in Australia, they are raised on the best pasture, but are exported to Indonesia for slaughter. Indonesia have no concept of the term "Cruelty to Animals", nor is there any such thing as a "Humane Slaughter Policy" These cows are tortured to death.

There is a website - you can view all the footage. www.banliveexports.com

If you decide to visit it, There is a video of a cow they called "Tommy"

It shows you how Tommy reacts to the fact that there are cows being slaughtered right in front of him, and he knows he's next.

It has never been so clear to me, as it was in that footage. They know. They are acutely aware of what goes on around them. They feel loss, they mourn, they feel pain & fear.

And humans treat them like they are brainless, mindless matter.

I became a vegetarian the day I watched that footage.

ErinR76

I couldn't find the video. I keep going back to trying to figure out how to talk myself into becoming a vegetarian. I have eaten meat all my life and I'm pretty sure I'm 'addicted' to the typical American diet which consists of meat, starch, processed food and sugar. I'm not sure what all I have to do to change that. Anyways, if you can direct me to the Tommy video, I'd be grateful. I didn't see it on youtube either.

Copious_Amour

I really believe its a mindset on eating or not eating meat. You either do or you don't. I don't eat meat because I refuse to be a part of the torture these animals go through, nor do I think it is okay for me to take another's life. Nor do I feel it is my place to push my beliefs on others. Kinda like religion or NHM. They ask, then okay.

Anyway, all it took for me to stop eating meat was watch a video on the animals being tortured. Being a vegetarian in the 80's was hard. Now-a-days? They have faux shrimp that smells exactly like shrimp. They have tons of wonderful alternatives. Breakfast pockets with eggs, cheese and "sausage."

My gf would never dream of not eating meat. Wouldn't even consider it. That is okay too but it really is better for the environment to not eat animals.

bit

Don't think this is something I want to watch. Tony is leaving today. I know, he's be leaving for so long, I don't even believe him anymore. It's the plan, anyhoo. That leaves my vegetarian daughter and I, at home and meatless. I like how I feel when I don't eat meat. It's a supplement thang, if you do quit. Make sure your body gets what it needs.
Another ponder for you. I can't remember if this was something I heard, or if this was an angel thang. When my daughter was very small, she said I told her that before she was born, she knew everything. Just before she was born, the angels put their finger to her lips and said, "shhhhhhh" and she forget everything she knew. That's why we all have that indention above our lips and below our nose. (and don't know shit) It's an angel finger print. I'm pretty sure I must have read it somewhere. Anyone ever hear this?

Copious_Amour

thebundychick

For those interested. This is tommy's story http://www.banliveexports.com/1/#tommy

Copious_Amour

ErinR76

As terrible as that had to be for Tommy, the clip that followed of Bill was even more disturbing. I'm so glad I haven't eaten any meat today. I started another thread on fasting and I think I will try again to eliminate at least beef!!

jackspark

About all we eat here is deer and turkey, right off the farm. It's inexpensive, clean of all hormones and the population is thick enough to need thinning..... it works out well for us.

ErinR76

lucky dog.

bit

Just my take on things, which means this is the reality I've created. It might not be yours.
I was thinking about how we are sparks of the divine creator. The creator being within us,, experiencing life through us. As us. Look in the mirror and lookinng back is the divine. I know God loves me, but considering my love of horses. and that happened as one of my earliest memories, God must be rather fond of them too. To me, they feel a lot like angels. Great teachers, companions, healers, and friends. True friends.
I think most of us have had those "moments" with our horses. Those moments in clairty, or times when we remained in the saddle when all logic said we should have been sent flying. Those cenataur moments. Times when our horses have pressed their faces against ours, breathed us in as if we were the most lovely scent they have ever known. I'm thinking they were God moments. Moments in time when the divine showed through and connected with His angels, our horses. Times when He happilly sat a bolting horse, and we, the human actuallly looked back and remembered much to our horror, there was enjoyment, pleasure, and joy in that moment of fear. Moments when there was pain, for us or our horses, and God shown through us and there was healing. Comfort. Whether the horse cried in our hair, or we cried in thier manes, God was there.
I'm starting to realize that when I'm with a horse, there are three of us. I'm never as close to all that is, as when I am when I am with a horse.

ErinR76

When I had my husband's wedding band made, I had three diamonds put in it...one for him, one for me, and right in between, one for the source of all that is!

Looking back, I should have just put one, though! LOL

jackspark

Went out to the back of the 25 acres to find my friends tonight. How sweet is it to find them and have them turn and look, stop what they are doing and come to greet you. The look on my Gem's face said it all "It is soooo good to see you, I've really missed you" Makes me happy to know that I am one of them