| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| PasoBaby_CarolU |
Recognizing Pain in horsesI am starting this from a post I made on an Allure thread. We can start it with a discussion on horses that do a longitudinal stretch on their own, when moving. This is what I wrote there...
Buddy was a rescue and came from an abuse situation where they used to trap him and manhandle him. He still has tons of trust issues, which I'm not at all sure aren't pain related. This is a video of him when he was three, in the field with Bruiser. (Buddy really deserves a big hug for how tolerant he was of the little brat...LOL). But, if you don't watch Bruiser and pay attention to Buddy, you will see that almost every time he moves off into a trot or gait, he lowers his head to the ground. http://www.onetruemedia.com/share...ource=otm&utm_medium=text_url |
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| CoolsLadyInRed |
Kind of hard to take your eyes off of Bruiser LOL
In some of Buddy's take offs with Bruiser it looked like he was doing the snake neck thing and playing with Bruiser  I sure believe you when you say he was in pain, though.
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| thelmanelle |
I have to agree with Beth's assessment. But, Buddy sure stood his own. He was hauling butt at times! 
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| learningthedance |
Yep, that's what I see too. I have one like this also. The one in my avatar actually(that's my daughters horse "Thunder"). When ever he is trotting/playing in the field, he usually has his head and nose almost on the ground like that. If one of the neighbors dogs get's in there and starts irritating them, he looks like a peanut roller with LOTS of attitude and is on a serious mission. I have always thought it was a dominant/play type of thing though. Never really thought of it as pain, because he only does it when he is getting ready to giver and kick up his heals and have some fun. Now, once he is running, the tail comes up and he holds his head high and proud. |
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| Mandy'sMarty |
I've watched this video a couple of times and I have yet to 'feel' any physical pain issues with Buddy. As I watched, I followed the same process that I use for assessing horses with some unknown issues. I usually first check energetically to identify whether the primary issue is physical, emotional or mental. Instead of following this protocol exactly during my first viewing of this video, I first checked if Buddy was uncomfortable...and got a definite "yes".
Aware of Carol's comments about Buddy's history, I next checked if Buddy's discomfort was emotionally based...and got another definite "yes". But as I continued to watch, evaluate and ask questions, I began to realize that Buddy's 'emotional discomfort' was simply aggravation over Bruiser's antics. Particularly Bruiser's lack of respect for his elder. I believe that what I saw was Buddy babysitting Bruiser and dialing back his dominant posturing slightly in deference to Bruiser being just a baby. Otherwise, I believe Buddy would have shown more snakey head & neck stuff. It appears to me that Buddy was simply working to shape Bruiser's behavior...and acting like the dominant horse. That one buck he made as he was running suggests to me that he was not in physical pain. I think he was showing dominance with his lowered head. |
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| Chris |
Unfortunately, the video was taking forever to load and I just gave up on it.
From the PNH vid with Allure, it didn't look to me like he was being playful in the slightest. When the girl who was riding him (Lindsey?), said she expected him to maybe buck and play up, I was surprised, because I thought Allure looked as bored (listless?) with proceedings as Remmer often does. I've often wondered why some horses travel with their noses in the ground as he does. Karen Rohlf has her horses go in a long, low frame, they are doing lovely stretching with their backs yet carrying themselves well....I've not seen them trip while doing this, especially not as often as Allure did in the video. I know Linda commented on this in the vid, and she categorized it as purely a stubborn, willfulness thing---in other words Allure was doing this because he didn't want to do what he was being asked to do and had no interest, period. It does seem there is an underlying reason---pain/stiffness/soreness---for that, and not simply "I just don't wanna." |
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| Mandy'sMarty |
Assuming that you're referring to Carol's video of Buddy and Bruiser, the same thing happened for me. After waiting too long for it to load, I stopped the process, closed another program I had open, and then restarted the video. It then loaded immediately. |
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| Chris |
Yes, I was referring to Carol's video---thanks Marty, I will try that.
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
I should probably add more to Buddy's video. He moves off like this in a trot, and always has. So much so that he gets his front foot over the rope continually. I know in his case, it is never an "I don't want to" because he is probably the most impulsive horse I've ever seen, a Forward-aholic if ever there was one. I never understood why he moved like this until Bien got laminitis badly and as she recovered, she'd move like this on harder surfaces, but gait OK when in soft sand.
I put up this video mostly to show that he's always done this and to demonstrate what I'm talking about. Chris, I think there is a difference when you ask the horse to move in longitudinal stretch like this and when they do it on their own. I think there is reason, just like a lame horse bobbing its head or dragging a foot. My reason for starting this thread is that often times pain is a hard thing to see and recognize. If Allure was moving like this on his own, not asked for the stretch, then I'd suspect pain, something I never would have done before. |
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| Chris |
Oh yes, I absolutely agree. That's the point I was trying to make, guess I didn't do that very well! 
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