Riding in rope halters / hackamores

Shelby · Riding in rope halters / hackamores

Dr Deb and some others are really against riding in rope halters and hackamores. Is this because they believe the cues are not clear coming from under the jaw (Dr Deb is fine with sidepulls) or is there another reason anyone knows about?

Clarissa

Shelby there is a very long thread somewhere here where we covered this subject in great detail. Here is just one short thread:-

http://itsaboutthehorse.myfastfor...ront_end_heaviness_about3338.html

Others might like to chime if they remember which threads covered this subject. I think there was one about bits that got onto using the halter.

coveredbridgefarm

I have never seen Dr Deb in person so this is second hand information but a few people who have seen her have told me that Dr Deb is really not a particularly good rider. If true, maybe this has something to do with her attitude toward hackamores. Maybe it's really more about the rider than it is about the hackamore or halter. Isn't it usually more about the rider than it is about the tool? It depends on what you're doing with the horse anyway.

Larry

PasoBaby_CarolU

I ride in my rope hackamore all the time. Went through (old) Level 3 in it. I didn't have any problem with front end heaviness, but I believe that depends entirely on the person and using it correctly. If you hold steady pressure on it, the horse will indeed get heavy in the front end...but that is true with any piece of tack. If you ride on a relaxed rein, you don't have a problem.

These days I mostly just trail ride in it. I like that the reins/halter are one unit and you don't have to carry anything else. I prefer a jaquima for training, which is a lot like a sidepull, but has a curb. I agree with Dr. Deb about a clear signal...it is much better with a sidepull or jaquima. But she supports the use of western bosal, which I find has the same problem as the rope hackamore, not a clear signal. I think we owe it to our horses, especially young horses, to be as clear as possible.

I also agree with Larry. Dr. Deb is a great at paleontology.

BTW - one other thing I've found the rope hackamore is great for, is retraining horses that are soured on bits and curb straps. This is not unusual with ex-show horses. I put a rope hackamore on them and have brakes again.

4theloveofjake

I am not by any means the most experienced or skilled rider and we only ride in rope halters. We have breaks, steering and most importantly a trusting relationship with our horses.

Blue Flame

As I understand it, it is because the rein attaches below the level of the mouth and as such it imparts a torque to the headgear that encourages the horse to twirls the head opposite to the desired way. Therefore they prefer headgear where the rein attaches at the level of the mouth or above.

coveredbridgefarm

Interesting, Sandy. What about bits with chin straps? The chin strap exerts pressure below the mouth.

Larry

thebundychick

I tend not to pay any attention to anything Dr Deb says.

I gave up visiting her site years ago, as I realized i concentrated LESS on what she was saying, and MORE on hoping to god i could get through a single forum page without her ridiculing or ostracising some poor innocent who had asked a "stupid" question.

Been Riding my OTTB in a rope halter for 3 years. I trully have never felt safer. I have breaks. (in a bit, he just opened his mouth, threw his head up and pushed right through the pain). I have stearing, I have collection, I have sidways.

Can't think what else I need - but whats more important than a happy horse :D

Hertha

What do we want other than turn left or right or move on the diagonal toward the left or right and maybe an extra reminder cue for halting if the voice and body dues aren't enough for some reason?

Then we can add in disengaging the hind end with the indirect rein. Lateral flexion when we want to feed them their treat - but one doesn't usually need a rein cue for that - they'll turn to get their treat as soon as they hear the click.

If you also want vertical poll flexion, it can be taught with a verbal and body language cue.

What else do people do with their reins? I like my rope halter with rings at the ends of the nosepiece to which i attach the reins. I'm using this for long-reining at present. The pressure is directly in one spot on the outside of the nose so the horse moves away from the pressure when it turns correctly.

The key thing to know is to simultaneously loosen the outside rein when asking for a turn with the inside rein, so there is no conflicting message.

Alex Kurland also uses a rein cue (on the ground or when riding) to ask the horse to lower his head. She uses it as a calming down procedure.

cynthia peterson

Let's look at this with the Parelli ideas (since this is a Parelli forum) Linda herself said she couldn't achieve with Allure (for instance) with the rope halter and was so frustrated. Pat himself, rarely uses the rope halter any more, look at recent pictures. Pat's mentors, Ray Hunt and Tom only used the rope halter riding for starting a colt. The truth is, some horses work wonderfully with them, and sometimes you get one that won't (like Linda found out) And like Pat, if you want more finesse (and Linda) then you go beyond the rope halter. We have all seen some rope halter trained horse with intentions in the nose bridge from being dull, and some amazing good in the rope halter for years. It just depends. And the rope halter stretches overtime and gets too large on the nose and you end up almost to the chin to neck to get it done. So, don't let someone else tell you what to do. Check your horse, check the rope halter for wear and looseness, check what you want to do, and adjust to the situation. Take a little film of yourself riding, make your own judgement. Adjust, just like Pat and Linda did, You have to hand it to Pat and Linda, they adjusted to fit what they wanted to achieve with their horses, they changed equipment, they changed ideas, got new ideas from WAZ and Pat has had many other people come in to show him a few things (Bob Aviala and Martin Black to name a few.) Maybe one of Parelli's best lessons they have taught us to listen, adjust to what is better for the horse and yourself. isn't that what we are all looking for?

One thing else, while we are talking about it. If that rope halter or rope hackamore gets a really strong pull (say a horse pulled back on it, or stepped on the leadrope while you lent it out, because you wouldn't be that careless yourself

) it could loose it's spring and be "dead". Ir needs replaced if that happens.

Chablis

Shelby

Clarissa

Blue Flame said:

Quote:

As I understand it, it is because the rein attaches below the level of the mouth and as such it imparts a torque to the headgear that encourages the horse to twirls the head opposite to the desired way. Therefore they prefer headgear where the rein attaches at the level of the mouth or above.

Do you remember my description of ‘Phases of the Halter’? It was taught to me by Ken Faulkner while he was still with Pat & elaborated on after he left Pat.

I will try to find it again. In any case there are 4 phases much like the 4 basic phases for yielding. It is still a yielding exercise only the horse is yielding to the halter feel.

If the rope/rein is tight from the halter to your hand you are in phase 4. It seems to me there is a general lack of not dwelling long enough in phases 1-3.

Phase 4 does not allow the horse to twirl of it’s own accord nor does it allow lightness & finesse to develop.

PasoBaby_CarolU

That would be helpful Clarissa. I was wondering about this part myself:

Clarissa

PasoBaby_CarolU

That's interesting Clarissa. My experience with the rope halter/hackamore is just the opposite. Everyone I am around who uses it to ride with has taken the PNH course and uses it properly with release. People who don't ride with it, use it like a halter, period. And to be honest, I don't see them flexing or suppling their horse one way or another.

In the Paso Fino world they start in a jaquima and teach pressure/release directly. Once the horse knows lateral work, a bit is added and the horse is transitioned to the bit. I bring this up because they (and Clinton Anderson) are the only other group I see that spends a lot of time flexing a horse routinely as part of every ride. I haven't seen a lot of opposition in Clinton's horses, but have in Paso Finos once they are flexed/turned in a curb bit a lot.

Clarissa

I can't find the post about Phases of the Halter but here are the videos I made.

About the Halter part 1 "Phases of the Halter is the last section in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93yUt0K1-po

About the Halter part 2 included things like back-up, direct & indirect rein.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC7vOQUOc6Q&NR=1

Hertha

Clarissa wrote: