| Archive for It's About The Horse The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.), |
| bit |
Round penningI've heard do, and I've heard don't. The don't mainlly concerning the intrapment of the horse in a small area and not having the choice to leave. I figure it depends on the human, the horse, and the relationship? I can see how it could be bad, but what about the good? Balance AWAYS seeming to be the theme to my challenges. How do you feel about it? How do your horses feel about it? Have you taken a moment to to notice how your horses feel? Do you act differently in a round pen? Do you feel differently? More in control? More dominate? More powerful? Do you feel idfferently in a pasture where the horse can leave? Less in control? Better? Worse? |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
Although we often call it Round Coral, I think of it as my Play Pen. Mine is oversized and oblong, about 60 x 100. It is literally where I do everything that isn't trail riding. I do ride some in the pasture, but not a lot. I don't have much and my grass needs help growing, not being stomped to death.
I am pretty sure I don't "round pen" in the normal sense of the word with any of my horses. I do a lot of Liberty though. I would say that three of my horses look at it I do for them, "Exercise" since I don't have a hot walker. My old horses and Zar in the hot season all get the drudgery of 20 minutes of brisk exercise 3 times a week. Which pretty much means boring circles. I do put cherry timbers down so they have to pick up their feet sometimes and can't just shuffle along. I get occasional bucks from Trooper when he's feeling good, but by and large it's drudgery. Zar on the other hand seems like to prefer the same-ol same-ol of establishing a rhythm, rather it's trot or canter, and do what she knows she's supposed to do. She is my RBI and "play" is not in her gene code. She is the best trained at this...I can lay on the drum tops in the middle of under an umbrella and click, kiss, and "Stop" or "Back" and get her to respond with nary a lift of a stick or even a look in her direction. To be honest, I think this takes the pressure off her of 'guessing' what I want, and that is a great relief. I frequently do horses in groups to save time - Baby and Trooper are exercised together. I also do the Boys - Diablo and Buddy - together. Now THAT is a rodeo!! They rear, buck and race, bite and kick, jump the cavelletties, charge each other, and once they're worn down a little, start coming in for cookies and things. They really have fun in there...it's a great sport. It's not for the feint of heart though. I do have to watch footing with them, since they are busy being boys and aren't too careful about ice or mud. I have drums, jump standards and jumps in there, and they make full use of all it. My only goal is to keep them moving and not give them too many cookies. Rosie is the only one who does Parelli Liberty, but being a hot Paso Fino, she does it Rosie style, so lots of rears, bucks, kicks, and head tossing. She loves it. I have to watch how many obstacles I put in with her because she gets stuck on them...figure 8ing barrels, sidepassing poles, stepping on barrels or jump standards. Since she never does anything "wrong" it definitely is not blue string Liberty...but it's fun. And we also spend a lot of time dancing and doing stick-to-me. Bien is an ex-show horse and doing Liberty was a new concept for her. She is used to lunging. So, I still have to walk with her and drive her, getting closer to the center. She also is hot, so lots of head tossing and attitude. She loves to charge the dogs on the outside of the coral and shake her head at them. And Carina is still learning so not really doing anything like this with her yet. She is still on-line. She is one of those horses that has a hard time leaving you. She loves attention and when you send her away she is none too happy. ...and how do I feel? I'm just out there to have fun. I admit the drudgery of plain exercise isn't much fun, but the others are ALL fun. I spend more time laughing and loving on them...and they eat it up. So, I don't do round coral work like John Lyons or Clinton Anderson. Mine is a cross of Liberty and just fun. |
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| Mandy'sMarty |
Re: Round penning
I, too, an aware of the pro's and con's of round penning. I suppose most of the con's have to do with pushing too much energy and driving the horse too hard in relation to its perception of escape. My most remarkable experiences have been with drawing at liberty. One experience occurred years ago. Back when I was rediscovering horses. I had just finished reading Monty Roberts' "The Man Who Listens to Horses" and had an opportunity to experiment with some wild horses. This was before Mandy. It's a story I've told before but not in the context of the round pen. I was following a small band of mares on the beach at Cumberland Island. They were about 150 yards away. My presence had already spooked the three stallions and they were gone. For perhaps an hour or so I walked in a meandering zig zag course with my eyes diverted, but my goal was to get as close as I could. The three mares left the hard packed beach and settled at the edge of the dunes. The oldest stood guard on top of a dune while one dozed and the other grazed on sea oats. Eventually I was able to establish the invisible boundary of their bubble. When I softly bumped up against it, I stepped back and then showed them I was not stalking them. I sat down in a depression between some dunes. I sat there cross-legged and pretended to be very interested in some shells in my hands. They were about 30 feet away. The filly that was grazing on the sea oats turned to study me as she pretended to be hungry. After about 30 minutes she began a slow meandering graze, nibbling the dune grass between me and her. It took her perhaps another 20 minutes to bump into my bubble. I was sitting low and vulnerable and she was a wild thing towering over me. I softly talked to her and struck a deal with her. I would not move even one muscle suddenly and she was not to trample me accidentally. For the next 15 minutes she slowly circled me clockwise as she pretended to graze, keeping her eye on me the whole time. She was only a few feet away from me. When she completed her tiny circle, she carefully turned and walked a step and a half to be right with me. I held my breath and sat motionless, with my hands on my knees. Leaning down she softly nuzzled my right hand's knuckles and then, with a sweeping motion along my arm to my shoulder, she inhaled my scent. Six months later I was back on Cumberland Island. This time I was watching a band of about a dozen horses. I was sitting on a picnic table near the Dungeness mansion ruins. The horses were at the perimeter of the expansive lawn where it meets the maritime forest. They were 175 yards away. When I first looked their way, there was only one that seemed to return my gaze. That horse had alerted on me in a very unambiguous way. Soon the dominant stallion was leading his band across the mansion grounds and away from my stares. They slowly and methodically marched single file along a course that cut the distance between us in half. I left my picnic table and slowly walked toward them. As I cut the distance between us in half again, my attention was drawn to the last horse in the string. It was a young mare and she was the lone horse who had returned my gaze moments earlier. I spontaneously opted to play a subtle game with her. She seemed to be lagging behind the horse in front of her. I carefully approached a point along her path so that I would intersect it before she got there and without disturbing the other horses. When I reached that point I stopped and turned to face the direction she was heading. My gaze was now away from her. She slowly walked past me about six inches beyond my reach. I noticed she was lazily dragging her hind feet as she walked by...it felt like she was flirting with me. As soon as she passed me, I quickly walked after her but in a wide arc so that she did not feel too much pressure. I set my course so that I would get ahead of her again and then stop along her path. Once again she practically brushed by me as she passed. We played this game one more time as she followed her band. Then I changed the game. Her band had walked around a huge live oak with enormous branches growing low along the ground. One massive branch had grown to where it's middle was resting on the ground, creating a perfect low seat. It also created a cul-de-sac for our walking game. Instead of following her band, I hurried over to the tree and sat down on that ancient limb. From my seat I noticed the Spanish Moss that was strewn on the lawn between me and the mare. Horses love Spanish Moss. She saw it too and soon she was slowing munching her way toward me. I didn't recognize her till she was practically on top of me where I sat. She was six months older now, looking more mature and her coat was slicker and a darker shade. I was now sitting in almost the same relationship to her, six months later, as she stood over me. Now, looking up at her familiar face, I realized why she had been flirting with me. It was she who had remembered me from that day in the dunes. It has been many years since that reunion. Not until today did I see the irony in how we first met. Our relationship was forged in the round. Instead of it being inside a pen, it was started on an open beach. Rather than playing the role of the dominant one, I chose to act passive and sit low and vulnerable. And the horse was circling to study me rather than running to flee. Draw instead of drive. |
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| bit |
I remember an aquaintence has turned her 6 horses out on the grass by the house, and I decided to experiment with trust. I lay down, arms and legs spread and closed my eyes. I could hear the horses approach and then soft pulling and squeaking of grass being eaten. I could feel them pushing and nuzzling my body as they ate. When they wondered off, I got up to have all the grass neatly mowed all around where my body had lain. It was a perfect outline of me.
Beyond the round pen,, eh Marty? |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
You wouldn't do that with Bruiser! LoL | ||
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lol, no. But after getting a very good relationship with a like minded horse, namely Hawk, I did. I think Brusiers mom will be able to do that with him some day. This is Hawk and Kelsey. Hawk has come a long ways from his crazy, somewhat dangerous ways.
Shan isn't "here" yet, but he's close. I'm not sure every horse will have this much trust. That'll depend on the human. The horses in the yard that day were not "that kind of horse". Not one. Something happened though, in that moment in time. Something magical. If you have experienced something like this, you know. It defies all logic, all reason. It was wonderful. |
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| Hertha |
Good question, DeBit.
I've been playing more C Resnick style in my arena, lately with both Boots and Smoky together. Sometimes they 'get it together' and are both going in the same direction at the same gait, at which point I whistle and draw them back to me for a treat. I'm lucky to have neighbours with huge flat paddocks. When the grass is short like now right after hay baling, I much prefer to go out with a 30' longe line and do traveling circles to get good sustained movement out of Boots. We are playing with change of direction at trot or canter. She finds it relatively easy to turn from right toward left, but difficult going from left toward right. Maybe it will be easier for her to develop the muscles for that movement if I set up a round pen again and have her practice at liberty in short bursts. Someone I red recently said that the best use he'd found for a playpen was to use the boundary to help shape what you'd like the horse to do, which is probably what I tend to do. I think it is also a good place to work on refining our body language to create softer cues. Good place to work on positive reinforcement training, although once the horse is hooked onto that, it will usually be attentive to what you would like to do no matter where you are 
Another interesting approach is to use 'lanes'. Send the horse in one end and have it target a mat coming out of the other end. Once they get the hang of this, we can graduall add rails or cavaletti to make it more interesting. So much to do!   
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| Mandy'sMarty |
Deb, I love the visual of your outline being neatly mowed in the grass.
Mandy and I will often just hang out together in her pasture while she's grazing. I've noticed that when I show up after a longer than normal absence, she will tend to graze close to where I stand. Before long, I realize that she is grazing up against the edge of my boot. She carefully nips and clips the vegetation in a perfect outline of my boot, creating a horseshoe shape in the grass. Mandy rarely offers me a sign of affection. When she does, I treasure the gesture. I treasure those horseshoes in the grass. |
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| CoolsLadyInRed |
I haven't used the round pen in ages. It was only used to help the donkey and I get acquainted. Back when we doing liberty things we used it but I don't find any use for it except to climb on bareback.
I love doing what you said Deb. Going in the field and laying down and listen to Lady eat around me. I can't say she eats that close to me but she stays pretty close with the occasional nuzzle to the hair thing.  That is our thing. She goes for hair and i offer it to her when i go to the barn, too.
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| PasoBaby_CarolU |
Oh Deb, it isn't a matter of trust with Bruiser...him trusting you. It's you trusting him not to nibble, bite, eat or paw you. He'd untie your shoes and undo any Velcro, and start pulling your clothes off. He would find messing with you a lot more interesting then eating the grass. Alayna posted the other day on Facebook that ponying Bruiser was a lot like ponying a crocodile. Even as a foal you didn't sit in the coral with him, and I didn't let strangers in with him at all. Oh, I'm afraid laying on the ground with him would be an open invitation for mayhem.
You know, if I did that with Buddy I'd come in soaked...that horse can't hold his licker, and has an award winable tongue. Absolutely drenches me each time I sit with him. |