Should Equine Dentists be allowed to practice?

appellativo · Should Equine Dentists be allowed to practice?

What are y'all's thoughts on this? Equine Dental specialists are being attacked by Vet Boards, saying they should not be allowed to practice (and that only a licensed veterinarian should be allowed to do teeth). Check out this article and then chime in on your thoughts.

http://www.texastoothlaw.com/long.php

Gismo

My vet is not a dentist and my dentist is not a vet.
My doctor is not a dentist and my sex therapist is not pretty.

appellativo

Well I guess that just about sums it up! LOL

So, be sure you advocate for the equine dentist's right to practice! :D There's HB3202 in OK right now to support equine dentists' right to practice. Feel free to write....

PasoBaby_CarolU

I have my vet do my horse's teeth. I also sedate all my horses for floating and I certainly wouldn't trust a non-vet with that procedure.

new2thejourney

My equine dentist uses the local vet to sedate the horses then he floats the teeth. They work together.

@ Gismo!

Karen

learningthedance

bit

The equine dentist I used in Bishop, Cal (wish I could remember his name) never had to sedate. Never. He took every horse into a quiet box stall, (had an assistant), talked to them, the horses eyes would get dreamy, and then he'd float their teeth. Yep, still dreamy eyed, and everything. I spent the whole day with him, watching and asking questions, and not one horse gave him the slightest hickup of a protest. Not one. I asked him why the horses were so cooperative and he said it was his after shave, "ode de hay". I fell in love with him, and I'm pretty sure my eyes got all dreamy and stayed that way for the duration. This is before Tony. He travels all over Ca. and Nev. to do teeth. The guy had a gift.
The guy that my trimmer recommened to me is the same, she said. No drugs. Doesn't need them. He hasn't met Hawk, however. Hawkie is rather fond of his zone one region, and it took a long time before he let me touch, tickle and blow raspberries on it. He isn't too impressed with the vet sticking a rasp in his mouth without drugs.

jackspark

Don't have an equine dentist in this area, vet does all work. I wouldn't be opposed to an ED if they were tried and true!

appellativo

I had Sasha's teeth done twice by vets but wanted to give an Equine Dentist a try since she was still eating slower than the other horses and holding her head out and to the side.

She came out and I asked her where she'd like to do it at, (we were standing in the pasture) and she was like, "Right here!" She explained to me that if the horse was not restrained (she didnt even want a halter on her), and if she drifted, she'd just go along with the horse, it relaxes the horse. We didn't need any sedation or anything. Sasha backed up a couple times but stood still most of the time.

She explained how the most important thing or first thing is to check to make sure the front incisors can slide all the way back and forth with a full range of motion. If you have that, then the horse will and can work out any hooks in the back of the mouth and prevent ones from forming. Of course she checks for hooks and other issues in the back. She made sure not to put any round corners on the teeth or take too much off. No power tools, etc.

I was very impressed. I think if you get someone who has a good track record and word of mouth, it's a good thing. I think its tacky that some Vet boards are trying to put people out of business. If someone's not getting certified or is butchering people's horses, they're not going to be kept in business very long anyways! Duh!

new2thejourney

Bit. Wish I could find a dentist like that one you were talking about. I HATE the idea of sedating Bundy - I just think with a little time he would be okay with it. He isn't even given the opportunity with the dentist I use at the moment. And - being in a rural area, the choices are few and far between....

Karen.

bit

Ed McCarty
Equine Dental Specialist
cell 816-679-5562
Linwood, Ks

This is the e.d. that my trimmer recommended. No drugs, and is supposed to be really good. Nancy, he is probably close enough to you, but he would need enough horses to do to make it worth the drive. I think it's 6? My trimmer said he only charges 25.00 per horse. He's older, does it because he loves to do it, and no drugs.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I like drugs. I like drugs when I go to the dentist. I do the same for my horses.

Gismo

alexwein

thelmanelle

I just think about as a person, when my teeth hurt...they hurt bad.

So I want my horse sedated. I have used an ED in the past, but, my vet does the floating and I clean the sheaths....while the sedation is going on...No arguments. Happy ending. Happy grazing after it is over. The end.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Take a file to your teeth and see how it feels.

carefreegirl

calatar

I know in our state this is also an issue. I have heard several horror stories about vets doing poor jobs with power floats and it has scared the bejesus out of me. For me whether or not I use sedation depends on the horse.

The vet was just out and he said Cal needed to be done. I asked if he would do Cal without sedation. He said no so I said no thank you. I am not completely against sedation but Cal just flat out doesn't need it. He stands there calm as a cucumber having his teeth done and doesn't seem to be any worse for the ware. As he gets older I see no reason to risk complications with sedation (even if it is only a very small risk) if he does just fine without it. The vet later tried to appease me and said "well maybe I can give it a try without sedation on another day when I have more time" but since he uses power tools I am not going to take him up on the offer and will be using an equine dentist again.

Thankfully he said Eclipse was OK. Apparently the equine dentist in my area "works wonders" too but I am very skeptical that Eclipse could be done without sedation. He has trust issues with strangers and at this point in time I think any attempt to float his teeth without sedation would be unnecessarily traumatic.

bit

Kinda feel the same way, and have no problem sedating if it means the horse will be happier about the whole thing. Fortunatly, my mares who are both 11 are fine without sedation.
That guy I used in Bisop? He's in high demand because he can do it w/o sedation, and the horses just love him. He's like gold, and I wish there were more like him.
Hawkie is a blank slate, not one issue except that he thinks he's perfect. I would never ask want to do anything to make him afraid.
This is a little like shoes or no shoes, I think You have to consider what's best for the horse.

Nashama

If my vet were trained as a dentist I might use him, but he's not. As my dentist is trained specifically as a dentist, I use him over a vet virtually untrained to do teeth. My horses thank me for using the specialist over the GP.

HI-Karabest

Had to jump in.

My Equine Dentist is more natural, calm & quiet then is my very good Vet.

The Vet also does teeth, but not as well as the dentist.

My boys like their dentist. He will use sedation if he deems it to be safer for all concerned. My pony stands thru the whole procedure very nicely. My coming 6 yo arab sometimes will, other times, not so much. He prefers to start w/o the sedation & will only use it if Bay is busy bouncing & rearing.

I am very pleased with him.

whisperingwindfarms

My trimmer does my horses' teeth. He sedates them too. As far as I'm concerned, he knows as much about horses as anyone else I know. I wouldn't trust just anyone but I trust him.

The only thing that worries me about him is that Radar hates him but that's beside the point . . .

kydawn · dentistry

I am certified in Natural Balance Dentistry. I have several vet's horses as my clients as well as a lot of vet support. So I say yes to the question

Dawn Darnell
www.balancedhorsedentistry.com

calatar

Dawn, do you know any Natural Balance Dentists in North Georgia? I think I know one (is also a trimmer) but I am pretty sure he isn't comfortable taking on new clients. I didn't know if there were any others I wasn't aware of.

kydawn · teeth

He's the only one living there. I believe Spencer does some work in Georgia and I go to Chattanooga so for a few horses could come that far.

Niek

Chablis

Nashama

Mine are generally done without sedation, they are pretty good and we train them with our dental gag before Joe gets here. It helps Joe is a good horseman, too.

I am not too sure what we will do with Brandy, the new mare, she is really mistrustful with men.

redhorsewriter

The vets in BC are against equine dentists as well, and I've used both. If the vet is good, I'm not opposed to using the vet; I've seen a vet not need to sedate at all, and if I lived where he practiced, I'd probably use him.

The vet in my area though has to double sedate my mare to do her teeth, and it's still a big fight (and a bloody mess afterwords). The ED's I've had out do not sedate (they're not allowed to--only vets can), and my mare is an angel about the whole thing. I think it's a matter of patience and horse sense in this case, but still....

I also like the idea that the ED's have trained for weeks/months on dentistry as a whole, whereas the vets spent a whole week learning about equine dentistry (which mostly involves floating only) in vet school. (Come to think of it, it was a vet who, several years ago, recommended that a friend of mine take her horse to a dentist because he had problems that she couldn't deal with...)

Shannon

Firstly, I'd like to point out that only a few people have specified whether their vet/dentist uses a manual float or a power float. That in itself makes a difference.

My vet does my horses teeth. He uses a power float, so all horses are sedated. As someone else mentioned, this is also when they get their sheaths REALLY clean once a year. I trust this vet to do their teeth because the first time he came to look at one of our horses after we switched vets, he said the previous vet had only floated some teeth (we'd had him done a few months ago) and my horse still had large hooks and ramps.

The College of Veterinarians of Ontario doesn't recognize anyone who isn't licensed by them to perform dentistry. I think if the equine dentist is only doing a manual float and knows the anatomy of the horse's mouth then no harm is done, but I think it's overall easier to say that equine dentists aren't allowed to practice.

calatar

After I heard about three horses in my state dying from complications from power floats I swore I'd never do one.

Nashama

Ours are manual floating. While I have no problem with power tools, I am not in favour of them as it's too easy to go too far.

Vets in many countries want to tie up dentistry to qualified vets only. They also want to tie up all the bother therapies, including massage, photonic therapy, chiropractory, herbal medicine, etc. My take on it is when my vet is as good as the practitioners I use for these things as they are, then I might use him.

However this is in the first hand knowledge that a good practitioner studies his or her modality as long as most study for a University degree, and just like any vet they continue to study for the rest of their lives.

Chablis

It's now law in Australia that a horse must be sedated if the equine dentist/vet is using power tools for dental work. The sedation must also only be administered by a vet.

Both my horses are getting their teeth done next month by the same equine dentist I've used for years. I will report back if anyone is interested?

Gismo

Day before yesterday Reds teeth were done (in worse condition than I thought) . Our Farrier did the deed and because of the extent of work to do , Red got a ticket to his happy place in the form of a shot. I requested one for myself and was told it would kill me in the same dosage, but I wouldn't know that I died. After careful consideration, weighing my options, pros v cons, I put mine off for a while.
Our Vet does filing and stuff and he is a very good at what he does, He is NOT a dental person.
We did the right thing and let the best person for the job, do the job.

Clarissa

This week I watched a professional Equine Dental surgeon do 3 horses. He is a vet who has specialized in equine teeth having done numerous extended studies world wide.

He has a significant mobile setup of a purpose built trailer that carries a hydaulliclly opperated crush, generator for air opperated, human grade diamond grind power tools, mouth wash, etc. He can do xrays, major opperations, take photos, etc.

He was quiet with the horses but they were sedated once they went into the crush & one got more sedation as she was tense & threatening to throw herself down even after the first sedative had fully taken affect. All 3 horses are naturally trained now, but come with bagage from past owners. (Watching the mare gave me insight into what future lessons will comprise of with her owner since I coach her a 3hr lesson each fortnight.)

Each horse took about 45mins to do, then before being released from the crush they got an antibiotic injection, a seditive reversal, tetnus top-up & another injection that I don't remember & the geldings got their tackle checked.

All seemed well & good but I was inquisitive regarding price for such treatment. The dentist charges $150 base fee +++++ so each horse would've cost more than $200 for just a checkup with a touch up of the angles etc. There was no major work done & 2 horses will need follow up work in 2-3wks time involving xrays & possible relief of incroaching teeth & extractions if other teeth prove to be dead. The reason they weren't xray'd then, was that they were given some bute to help inflamation to see if that alone would solve the problems first before going to more expensive & invasive work.

This dentist travels & will be back this way in 2-3wks time so he is booked in for then to check these 2 horses again.....another $150 +++++!!

Yes he did a very thorough job, is a total professional & obviously highly qualified, but the cost knocked me for 6.

Unfortunately I can't afford such a professional even for myself, let alone my horses!

To my mind this guy is the top of the range & not everyone can afford top of the range anything. We all (well the majority of us anyway) work on a price scale. Some can afford to pay more than others can & we try to get the most at the best value we can afford.

If all I can afford is to have a farrier hand rasp my horse's teeth without sedation, then that's all I can afford for them. The guy who used to do my horses had a gag & could see right to the back teeth & did reach them with his little fine rasps. I can't afford to take myself to the human dentist at all & my mouth urgently needs attention, so it is unlikely that I will pay the top rate for my horses, (not withstanding the fact that I would like to give them the best). Because of that my horses haven't had their teeth seen to in 4yrs & I know they have problems requiring attention. When they were last due, it was right when Equine Influenza hit us & all horse stuff was cancelled. He lost his whole income (no training, farrier or dental work) so he went back to building stock fences.

So therein lies one of the main reasons why a variety of people should be allowed to do a certain job. Not everyone can afford the top end professional. Should those who can't, be excluded from receiving any form of treatment? This is happening in human medicine with the failure of our hospitals & general medical system in this country now which is why I'm not getting treatment for my teeth. So why should I also be excluded from accessing at least some form of treatment for my horses?

Some will argue that none is better than 'less than best'. Who is to decide that the farrier with his hand tools can't do a suitable job until I can afford the best?

Chablis

Man, that vet/dentist is expensive, Clarissa!

Did the cost include long distance travel?

I can understand the cost if a lot of work has to be done (and long distance travel) but my vet gives the sedation and monitors them, and both the vet/dentist try to keep the cost to a minimum for their clients!

My horses are on *maintenance* dental work program (ie they have no major problems & are have their teeth done regularly) so it costs me about $80/horse for the dentistry plus the sedation (usually only one per horse). The vet always starts with a light sedation and if the horse is okay, they don't get anymore.

The vet also doesn't give the horses anything to bring them out of the sedation - we simply wait for the sedation to wear off! He and the dentist always comment on how quickly my horses recover from any sedations.

happycat

TTFN

Chablis

Chablis

Well my horses' Equine Dentist (well actually 2 Equiine Dentists came this time around due to the sheer volume of horses needing dental work) did my horses teeth last Saturday.

Ironically there were also 2 vets because the dentists did the horses teeth in full view of everyone who visits the office/large stable/riding school complex, and the vets took the opportunity to line up some more horses.

I was able to feel the inside of my horses mouths before the dentist's started, and when they had finished. I had absolutely no problems with how they handled my horses or did their teeth.

They gave the horses plenty of breaks and kept the use of the power tools to a minimum, and for only short periods.

AlythLong

Well, I don't know about the rest of you but I much prefer todays (human) dentist power tools in my mouth than the old belt driven ones from my childhood (many years ago!!). Alyth

Chablis

Agreed - I hate going to the dentist! It's always painful.

happycat

TTFN

kydawn · dentistry

There are several schools of equine dentistry-- certainly not all the same--just as there are several schools of thought on equine dentistry in the veterinary community. I suggest that before anyone has their horse's teeth done-to check references-- study the type of dentistry--the paradigm -what the dentist or vet wants to accomplish with the procedure-, and the methodology- how your horse will be treated as well as what can be expected from the procedure. Only then can you make the choice as to what is best for your horse.

Chablis

Thanks Happycat - that makes sense.

Chablis · Re: dentistry

Clarissa

Chablis you didn't mention how much those vets/Ed's charged for their work when you had your horse's teeth done.

It would be good to compare against the guy I wrote about earlier in May.

Not that I can act on that info in anyway as yet. I haven't been able to afford to have my horse's teeth done since early 2008. I was just looking for a new ED when the GFC landed on my door step stealing all my money & leaving me with no weekly income ever since. The horses hadn't had their teeth done for about 18mths at that stage so it's actually 3.5yrs since they were done.

I know each horse has problems & needs attention but there's no way I can afford it anyway. I can't even afford to have MY teeth done let alone my horse's teeth

But it would be good to know what the mean average of charges might be just for reference for when I can afford it again.

Chablis

Sunny Acres Ranch

I'm coming late to the discussion, but I have to say that I totally support equine dentists and vets who address the horse's entire mouth. Dentistry is a specialty, whereas most general veterinary graduates do not learn more than just a typical floating of the molars. I love my vets, but I don't let them trim my horse's feet and I don't let them do the dentistry either. If I need an Xray or blood drawn though, they are the first I call. I asked one of my vets before I found a good equine dentist to cut down my gelding's canines and smooth them, and he looked at me like I had lost my mind.

After assisting two separate Certified Equine Dentists with several dozen horses, I'm a firm believer that the typical float is not near enough. Check out this thread on a 19-year-old TB gelding that I rehabbed. He had floats regularly, but he was still dropping grain and couldn't maintain good weight. After addressing his huge overbite from years of floating the molars and ignoring the incisors, his mouth is in much better shape and he is using his food more efficiently.
http://sunnyacresranch.proboards....amp;action=display&thread=281

Should Equine Dentists be allowed to practice?

dentistry

teeth

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Re: dentistry