Skin Problems

Clarissa · Skin Problems

Has anyone had their horse get really itchy & scratch themselves raw? What have you used as topical applications that worked? What else have you done that you think worked?

Here are 2 shots of Jude’s itch after a few days off the sweet grass. It is looking a lot better with very few raw patches & there is a lot of flakey dead skin sloughing off now which tells me she is not scratching as much. You can see how stretched her skin has become now with all those wrinkles in it. She never had that before.

Her mum used to have what was termed Queensland itch which was mostly over the top parts of her, but I discovered it was caused by her rubbing on certain trees & also eating molasses. When I put her in different paddocks that didn’t have those trees she would still scratch a fair bit but didn’t break out or make raw patches & the itch did heal up & her mane even grew nicely. Also when I cut molasses from her diet that really helped a lot. She never had a problem with grasses like Jude seems to be having now.

After much deduction, trial & error, rotating my horses through all 3 paddocks here, I discovered Jude got a lot better after just a few days in the houseyard or the front paddock. The houseyard has only short grass of several types although not much carpet lawn grass (creeping paspalum) which is a very sweet grass full of oxalic acid in it’s young stages. Oxalic acid is what makes you all itchy & prickly when you sit on lawn grass. Many grasses use it to protect themselves from predators like grubs or grasshoppers because it is a bittering agent. The front paddock has mostly course types of native grasses. The back paddock has all the sweet grasses along the creek which the horses keep cropped like a lawn. It also has a lot of a native grass called Bladey grass which also has oxalic acid. However it harbours juicey grasses under it so the horses rummage through chest high grass to get the yummy couch & herbs from underneath.

So in Jude’s case the 2 things combined, oxalic acid & a sweet rampant growth phase due to unseasonal heavy rains have caused her to break out with this itch that she has never had before. It’s all on her undersides which tells me she gets the oxalic acid on her while she brushes through the dewy moist longer grass in the early morning. Then she gobbles up all that sweet starchy lawn grass so she is coping it from 2 directions.

In the beginning, not knowing whether it was biting critters, fungal or something green causing her itch, I tried many different home remedies such as several sprays with ingredients like copper sulfate in water; tea tree & eucalyptus oils in water or cottonseed oil; Listerine; el cheapo Listerine; pyrethrum in water or cottonseed oil; other specific horse dip in water; Pat Colby’s itch mineral mix. I also wiped on a variety of creams to try to stop the itchiness itself, kill fungal spores or to kill insects. I used each one for several days in a row & it was easy to see within a day if something may work because she would stop breaking the skin open & hair would appear on the bare skin again.

In the end the change of paddocks has been the best to promote healing supported by simply using plain cooking oil wiped all over her itchy parts to keep the skin a bit moist & to give it some comfort from being dry, flakey & ‘crisp’ which would cause much discomfort itself.

Apart from that I think time is what’s needed & maybe some more dry weather! It's still a very long way from even thinking I can say I have got it licked. Also I can't leave her in that front paddock forever because the other 2 will run out of grazing very soon since they are currently in the houseyard closer to Jude to stop her running around while her foot heals.

What have other people used to remedy their horse’s itchiness?

PasoBaby_CarolU

I would guess that what you are seeing is an allergic reaction. You might try some Benadryl. I keep the caplets around just for horses. You can talk to your vet about dosage, with my smaller horses I'll give three.

For topical treatment I use the same solution I use of itchy scalps - mouthwash and baby or mineral oil. The oil helps with the dryness and the antiseptic in the wash cleanses and cools of the area. Both Zar and Bruiser broke out in similar hives one summer for no apparent reason. They quickly decided they liked the mixture treatments.

Clarissa

Carol you say 'benadryl', as in hay fever or sinus type tablets? What is the name of the active ingredient? I need to be sure since our countries call things by different names. Do you give internally or rub it on?

I tried the listerine after remembering that long list of things cheap mouthwash was good for! But I didn't think to put it in baby oil. I just watered it down & sprayed it on her mostly as an insect preventative.

I'll try the listereine again.

whisperingwindfarms

Looks a little like pemphigus. Toxins in the body are sometimes released through the skin so it could be that. Sometimes if you clean up the entire system, these things clean themseves up.

Clarissa

Gillies_mom

Seaweed is high in Iodine so maybe the grasses are naturally high in iodine in your area - that could be why the vet said not to feed too much??

PasoBaby_CarolU

The drug in Benadryl is diphenhydramine hydrochloride. Our caplets are 25 mg. Most dosages in the U.S. are for adult men (of course) and the dose is 1-2 pills for 180 lb (81 kg), so technically you could give a 1,000 lb horse 10 pills. I would never do this though...you'd really zone the horse out. If I had an acute exposure I'd give 5 pills.

BTW - this drug has been shown to stave off founder and colic in horses with sudden grain or sugar loads (horse getting into feed bin). So, I keep it around.

whisperingwindfarms

Clarissa,

It's pronounced "pemfigus". Others tell me that it is sometimes a reaction to ivermectin overuse but I am sure there are other causes. It looks very similar to it to me from the pics. You can take scrapings to your vet for analysis.

karmikacres

Clarissa, fortunately it does not sound like Pemphigus or really look like it.

You can check out my yahoo group at:

(http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquinePemphigusFoliaceus/files/)

to see many cases of it. Pemphigus is an autoimmune disease and has many triggers. In order to get a diagnosis of Pemphigus you need to have a plug biopsy done and might as well do skin scrapings to rule out other things.

I think Carol is right, it sounds like you have an allergic reaction going on. I'm not really a fan of giving benedryl or steriods but you do what you need to and then look to detox and support the immune system.

Karen

whisperingwindfarms

Karen - you may have just taught me something else. Going to check out the pics. Perhaps the mare that a friend had that was diagnosed with it 4 years ago didn't actually have it. The mare had to be put down for other reasons before the skin scraping was done. Thanks!

Chablis

Clarissa, has your horse come out in hives?

Due to all the rain we have had in Canberra (which is nowhere near the amount you have had in Qld), a lot of horses have developed an allergy to a grass that hasn't grown for years (due to the drought), and which results in hair loss, soreness and on occassion, hives.

The only thing that has worked for my mare has been cortisone shots, keeping her rugged, frequently use fly spray and only give her very limited access to grass - she is currently locked in a long dirt laneway which has very limited grass but free access to a roundbale (from interstate).

Also, she is washed weekly in a permoxin/water wash which is allowed to dry on her coat.

I avoid all and any sweet feed as she is prone to laminitis so didn't need to worry about pulling any of the stuff out of her diet. She has free access to hay/water.

In January, I took her to Jindabyne for just under 2 weeks and she had no problems with any of the grass species there but once I brought her home, straight away she had problems again.

She and many of the other horses, had never had this problem before.

bit

I was just going to say, it looks like the grass allergy the dogs would get at the vet clinic I worked at. It looks pretty uncomfortable. Hope you find out what it is, and more importantly, are able to get her comfortable again.

Clarissa

Jude has spent the last 2 days with Sonny & Cassie in the orchard & she is much improved. She is far less itchy & it is healing up nicely. I have also been using some topical anti itch antibiotic/antifungal cream between her back legs & udder since that seems to be the origins of all her itching. It's the itchiest place on her.

The abscess in her heel broke out last night so I expect her to stop limping soon (I assume). But if the grass is causing it she might get a sore hoof again when I return them to the back paddock.

I am fast running out of grazing & they are eating the trees around the house yard & orchard so I will soon have to put them all in the back paddock unfortunately. I just have to get on top of this first. If both hoof & skin are related it will be good in one sense.

I should have mentioned in my original post in this thread that Jude got this itch/rash late last November & I initially suspected unseasonal grasses because it broke out so vigorously, basically overnight & she was almost crazed by the itchiness. A certain paspalum species that grows unseasonally gets ergot on it’s seed head which is a fungal thing.

Like Bit mentioned dogs often are automatically allergic to it as are many horses & people too I think. This grass can also be massively high in sugars & there can be some interaction between the ergot & the sugars once ingested. But since there could have been several other reasons also, I just had to go through the list of causes & treatments & see if I found a pattern. That’s when I discovered she got a bit better when off the back paddock. So that was a starting point anyway.

She has never been allergic to anything so this is unusual for her. I do know her itch is not transmittable because the others groom with her & she with them & they haven’t got it……so far!! So that is a good thing. It is bad enough to have 1 horse with these problems, let alone 3!!!

One good thing is that there has been very little rain for 2wks now & the grass has a bit of age on it now so it has more 'guts' & therefore less sugars. I think they will be ok when I return them to the back paddock tomorrow.

Clarissa

Onchocerca Skin Lesions

Yet more research has led me to this newsletter which I used to get & have signed up to again.

In last summer’s NL there was an article about this beasty.

Here below is the article reprinted out of Dr John Kohnke’s newsletter ‘Talking Horses’.

Horses grazing in northern areas of Australia can also be affected by intense irritation and allergic reaction caused by the collection of microfilaria of the Onchocerca spp worms. The most common is Onchocerca cervicalis, a long filarial worm which develops within the ligaments of the neck. The incidence is highest in Western Australia, Central Australia and Northern Queensland, but it has been carried south by infected horses and isolated cases are reported each summer. The microscopic larvae or ‘microfilaria’ produced by this worm circulate in the blood stream and congregate within the skin layers of the upper neck, head, chest and under-belly. They are ingested by biting insects, including mosquitoes and Culicoides spp, which cause a secondary intense itching and localised symptoms similar to Queensland Itch. The congregation of allergic microfilaria result in the development of small discreet raised lumps about the size between a pea and a marble. Itching causes rubbing and thinning of the hair, breaking the skin resulting in serum matting and scab formation on the skin and the hair. This attracts more insects and flies. Often the mane is rubbed off. In severe cases, the damage to the hair follicles under the lesions results in bald patches over thickened fibrous nodules on the neck under the mane and in strips along the under-belly. The diagnosis of Onchocerca spp infection can be confirmed by biopsy of one or more of the skin ‘lumps’ to identify that microfilaria are present.

Plus this handy hint:-

Control of Onchocerca Itching and Lesions
The parent worm, which develops in the neck ligaments 4-5 months following contamination with infective microfilaria introduced by biting insects, cannot be controlled effectively within its protective environment deep within the neck ligament. Once a horse becomes infected, it will have repeated seasonal recurrence of microfilaria-induced itching. The circulating and congregated microfilaria can be controlled by ‘mectin’ worming compounds administered when the lesions are active and itchy. Consult your vet for advice. However, there is often a severe itching reaction triggered by the immune system by the dying microfilaria within the skin lesions, causing self-mutilation by rubbing. This reaction normally occurs in heavily infected horses within 24-36 hours after worming with a ‘mectin’ wormer. In cases where the itching is so intense as to cause severe skin damage, an injection of corticosteroid may be recommended to relieve the itch. In this case, the precautions as outlined in the Handy Hint below, must be strictly observed.

Another Handy Hint:-

Do Not Administer Corticosteroids to Over-weight, Itchy Horses and PoniesLong acting corticosteroid injections and oral Prednisolone granules, as prescribed by your vet, are helpful in reducing the intensity of the itching and rubbing associated with Queensland Itch.
However, you must avoid administering any form of corticosteroid to heavily pregnant mares, as cortisone is the natural hormone which triggers the birthing cascade. Also avoid use in obese or over-weight horses and ponies suffering from laminitis and those bordering on EMS or Insulin Resistance. Cortisones can modify the control of glucose and intensify the effects of circulating insulin and impede blood flow to the lamellae. Do not administer ‘left-overs’ of these preparations, which may have been prescribed for another condition or horse/pony, without seeking advice from your vet, as you may trigger an acute laminitic reaction.

---------------------------

So all up I think I will dose Jude again with Equimec which is an ivermectin based broad spectrum wormer. There is a possibility I inadvertently caused this problem by changing my wormer to Strategy which is the new generation alternative chemical mix used at this time of the year around tropical parts of Australia. This year I will do all the horses twice, firstly with Equimec & then a few weeks later with the Strategy because I really do need to use the alternative once a year at this time. However it is obvious they also need the ivermectin this time at least. I did do Jude when she first broke out in this itch incase she had a nasty case of thread worms I think they are which live part of their cycle under the skin all over the horse & cause itching. It seemed like it might have worked a little. There is a good possibility there are a number of things causing it both vegetative & animal. We have scotch grey mozzies the size of helicopters here! I’m sure they would harbour all manner if horrid critters because they are seasonal & come out late winter & late summer. The vet wanted to give Jude a long acting corticosteroid injection even after he saw she was itching badly! Seems it is usual practise which is very interesting when Dr Kohnke says not to do it!

Because these free newsletters are such good value full of info I will start a new thread & post the link to each newsletter each quarter & the list of back issues.

Yes_But_Neigh

We used Chlorhexiderm shampoo on Captain. He had the EXACT same looking skin reaction. Loss of hair, just totally miserable. He ended up being allergic to Oak Trees. He had to get shots of antihistimines because his body would over produce them. He had to be sprayed down w fly sorry, very chemical stuff, the strongest on the market because the flies love the raw spots. Just keeding him off property that had oak trees and keeding him washed w Chlorhexiderm really helped.

Chablis

Those washes will help, Clarissa (my vet says they are mostly just betadine/iodine). Is there any way you can lightly rug the horses for a while to limit their skin contact with the grass? 'Cause the allergy makes them pretty darn sore and prevention (ie rugs) is much, much easier.

Clarissa

Well I though I had Jude healing up but we have just had a mass outbreak of scotch grey mozzies the size of helicopters!! All the horses & Jude in particular have huge lumps all over them. Jude has gone back to rubbing herself raw.

Perhaps these mozzies are carrying that Onchocerca worm so I will have to worm all horses again in a week or so.

re the rugs...I have been looking out for sencondhand summer rugs like cotton day rugs but no joy yet. I guess summer is the wrong time to look for summer rugs. Also everyone in this area may well be using their rugs for the same reason I want them.

Even if I could find 1 for Jude that would be good because she is the only horse scratching. Just before xmas Horselands had these cotton summer rugs on special for about $45 for members....bugga! lol

Rubbing her body with plain cooking oil to just exclude air to quench the itch was working well until yesterday. She was hardly scratching & hair had grown back on most places. I was using brute once a fortnight & bettadine under her belly. Today I have them in the front paddock & house yard again so less contact with the dreaded mozzies. I will reapply the brute a day early because we have rain coming tomorrow & it needs 24hrs to soak in.

thebundychick

Clarissa

No Bundy there haven’t been any side affects other than healing! I was happy to use safflower oil because it’s really no different to the carrier oils used for many skin treatments. I don’t slop it all over her. I use a rag to wipe it on.

Chablis

Hi Clarissa,

My vet told me to use this on Minx once a week and more on any 'sore' spots with hair loss - http://www.vetshopaustralia.com.au/Permoxin-250ml-P375C33.aspx

thelmanelle

Clarissa,
One mare had it so bad , that I ended up finding her a new home which has given her peace. The bugs and grass here were too much for her sensitive skin. I tried the de-tox, benedryl, lotions, baths, steroids, no sweet feeds or treats, etc. The benedryl made her so she could remember to come eat? Finally after years of watching her suffer, I decided to try her in a new environment. It worked.
I miss her as she was really a wonderful horse, but she is better off now.

Clarissa

Thelma, Jude only broke out late last year. Prior to that she has never been itchy or sensitive to anything. It’s just this severe wet season doing it.

Chablis Jude uses a 5’6” combo rug, however I was thinking of getting a 6’ rug & running it in somewhere behind the wither to fit Jude then if Sonny needed one at some point I could let it out again. Being cotton it would be easy enough to do.

My local saddle shop had cheap combos but not in rip stop & no crossed belly straps. They said they could send my new purchase to a rug repair lady who would add straps for extra $16. Their next value rug was waaaay too much. So I was waiting until next week when I can buy a new one online for $10 more incl shipping that has all those things.

Jude is healing up well now that she is back in the front paddock where the grass is much shorter & less sweet. The itching has all but stopped. The worm parasite thing seems to have resolved too. I did use the Permoxin with ok results. These last 2 times I have chosen to use the brute because it is rain fast after several hours whereas Permoxin isn’t. So it’s just long grass causing her problems now & if I keep the oil up to her every second day that seems to do the trick.

However I imagine it will all break out again as soon as we have lots more rain, due any day now!

Docked by the Bay

Carol I am curious how you give the benadryl to the horses? Do you open the capsules?

Chablis