The Friendship Training thread

ErinR76 · The Friendship Training thread

okay I've heard this term mentioned here and there. I don't know if we have anyone here that has investigated this guy's approach. I'm checking it out and this message is brought to you by Erin Rodriguez, investigative reporter:

"“The unrelenting power of the human ego, bent on conquest, and prodded by the seemingly overwhelming avarice of financial/material gain, the accolades of peers, and what has been traditionally accepted as ‘proper’ is a trifective opiate and force to be reckoned with that sometimes blinds us to the unintended consequences of our actions, and the ruination of the Horse."

~ Author Unknown ~

Here's a page from his website. It sounds like its similar in some ways to Carolyn Resnick's method but EVEN MORE SO. Maybe also similar to Cynthia Royal's approach. In any case, what I've seen is refreshing in some similar ways. I'll report back with my findings.

http://www.friendshiptraining.org/index2.html

ErinR76

http://friendshiptraining.org/doc...LY_TEMPERAMENTAL_OR_BUCKING_R.pdf

ErinR76

Okay. So what this method is based on is this. In wild horse herds, there are many types of relationships. mare/foal. stallion/mare. sibling. extended family. but there is another type of relationship that some horses form and that is that of a special pair bond, or 'friendship' with one other horse. There are certain sequential interactions taken to begin this relationship and more complex actions later to develop the relationship.

This is less a 'training method' than a way of life or way of interacting with the horse. Here is an interesting summary.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oNWV...iendship%20Training%20Program.pdf

Agonizingly, the dude charges a one time fee (equivalent to the cost of boarding your horse at a training facilty, which around these parts, is close to $600-800 bucks) to teach you the method. So I doubt I'll be joining anytime soon. But the upswing is lifetime support. I bet with some sleuthing, I can find out the nitty gritty for much less!

More to come...

PasoBaby_CarolU

Very nice Erin...I think his philosophy and mine mesh very well. I particularly like the link on the bucking. I'll have to post that on another forum where people seem positive that horses do these things to be mean, or they make up their mind to be a jerk that day, or they don't want you to ride.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I wanted to add something. I don't remember who on here made a comment months back about making the 'work,' fun. Smiling, laughing, being totally positive with your horse. I am a very goal-oriented person and it took that post to make FUN my goal. I changed a lot of how I spend time with my horses. I still have one who thinks we have to be VERY SERIOUS, but she does respond to smiles. My others think that all the loves, and rubs, and smiles and FUN is just that, FUN. I must tell Rosie she is a genius 10 times a day. She eats it up.

I know Pat always talks about fun and using your imagination, but it all was still very goal-oriented for me (which I still am), but it was whoever's post about the FUN part I was really missing. I think when you smile, your whole body smiles too and the horses enjoy it also.

I wanted to add this because I think it goes very well with his philosophy of friendship training.

Good stuff.

Hertha

With clicker training, where the primary reinforcer is food, it is easy to build in a secondary reinforcer of joyful comment, like yes, good, hooray, wow, which tells the horse he is on the right track and to keep going because a click/treat is coming soon.

The 'soon' will gradually become further and further down the track until the click and treat can be at the very end of a rather long sequence of events.

But even if not using food as a reinforcer, just using release, the joy/fun/admiration emotion I think is easily and happily picked up by the horse.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Erin, I'm just going to bet that between PNH, Buck, Carolyn Resnick and Clicker training, you have all the tools to do Friendship based training. I doubt that you'd learn enough for the $600 to make it worth while. Someone who's never done other methods, yes, it is probably worth it.

ErinR76

Ya I know I could probably get along without it...but it's still eating at me! I'm a knowledge junkie.

Clarissa

Erin I’d be inclined to say that $6-800 is cheap in anyone’s $’s! When I was trying to teach people to not be so task oriented & work with their horse at liberty so that the truth is always infront of them, it took about a year to change most habits & begin to have the person develop an understanding & for the pennies to start dropping. For that I charged $1000 (if paid upfront) for 1x3hr session fortnightly for 10mths or $90 per session.

So if you are thinking of learning a whole new equine psychology understanding process, I would say you need to allow at least a year & if the guy is worth his salt & honestly knows his stuff, the amount you mentioned is cheap.

I really liked the statement in your first post. Unintentional consequences. They are just such a powerful thing that can have ever lasting affects either good or bad.

ErinR76

Clarissa, that sounds like A BLAST. But HOW DID YOU FIND PEOPLE willing to do what you set out to teach them? How'd you find those people?! (not even asking about the money.) If I could find those people around here, I'd LOVE to teach them!

Below is an excerpt from one of the documents on the FT yahoo group. In it it talks about how trying to 'be dominant' over the horse can work against you if your purpose is to have a real bond. Very interesting.

Researchers from many disciplines have studied dominance and aggression in animals, often in
the hope that it will aid the understanding of such behaviour patterns in human societies
(Manning and Dawkins 1992). However, the consequences of social dominance appear lower
for the horse than in some other species for example, the wolf, and arguably humans as well.
First, the horse's primary motivation must be survival, and second, social dominance carries
less of a reproductive advantage. In the wolf, only the dominant individuals reproduce and the
reproductive activities of subordinates are suppressed so that the activities of the whole pack
ensure the survival of the dominant animals' cubs (Zimen 1976, Derix et. al. 1993). In feral
horse populations most mares within harems produce offspring, and even bachelor stallions
appear to have access to some matings (Miller 1981). Therefore, as horses can establish an
enduring social order, reinforcing the dominance relationship between individuals is of
comparatively low importance and this must have implications for the human-horse
relationship. Equestrian traditions which are constantly concerned with exerting the

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dominance of the rider over the horse could appear, therefore, to be misguided. For if humans
repeatedly attempt to reinforce their dominance over the horses in their charge, it should be
recognised that the natural equine response will be avoidance. If the horse is increasingly
assuming the role of a companion animal this would seem far from an ideal strategy.

ErinR76

Ok so in that same document I find this:

Bonded pairs associate closely, grazing and resting together, and indulge in bouts
of mutual grooming (Fig. 3) and affiliative neck overlapping.

An appreciation of the importance of play to the horse under natural conditions also provides
an alternative approach to understanding the human-horse relationship. Play within peer
groups has a vital role in the development of the horse with up to 75% of the kinetic activity
of foals devoted to play. Play continues to be an important activity even in maturity (Fraser
1992). Maynard Smith (1982) demonstrated in his work on game theory, that playing games
involves learning sets of rules, so it has been argued that during the process of domestication
the naturally high levels of movement and social play have been channelled into work and
recreational equestrian activities (Fraser 1992). The process of learning the rules of play can,

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therefore, explain the socialisation and training of horses, with horse and human acting as
partners in interspecific social play.

Interspecific communication.

Body postures, or outlines, play an important role in communication and co-ordinating group
activities. As horses are primarily visual communicators they are extremely sensitive to subtle
changes in the body language of their companions (Waring 1983). The alarm posture of the
horse serves to alert the herd to possible danger and is a posture of high tension. Sensitivity to
displays of bodily tension is also an example of their communication which they generalise
towards humans. Horses react to tension in humans with the same alarm as if it were
exhibited by equine companions.

So I guess in FT you want to do all of these things: not try to assert dominance per se, with the exception of keeping your self and your space safe; grooming, resting, playing.

I know Chuck has specific exercises that he will teach to the enrolled student and will give guidance as to how best to proceed with your individual horse. Also there is the building of simple commands (voice and body language) to the horse to stay, come, back, etc), and be able to walk around the horse in a circle while he stays put. There is more of course.

So who's going to sign up?!

Clarissa

Clarissa

Regarding the assertion of dominance as a training method. There are times when I find mine are carrying on like spoilt brats & need pulling into line with stern words or certain actions I make that alerts them to my mood.

However generally it's a 50/50 or thereabouts relationship where I don't usually have to do much to get my way. They're more than happy to oblige mostly because it's in their best interests or it's what they want to do anyway.

When it comes to 'work play' I ease them into it usually by increasing the energy & begin incorporating 'tasks' so that after a short time they are into full lesson mode without even realizing it. Remembering that it's a long while since I used a halter for training purposes. The exception to that is when I was doing the straightness training with Sonny but I always did the 'workplay' first which ended alongside where the surcingle & long reins hang under the house.

So general raising of horses to be upstanding citizens type interaction for me has always been more or less intuitive with the NH overlay. Well it works for me. thumbleft

PasoBaby_CarolU

Erin,

I am not sure that this person really understands herd dynamics. Horses are herd animals and they need Leaders. In your "herd of two" either you are the Leader or they are...every minute of every day. I don't like the word "dominance" as he is using it, it sounds a lot like "force" and I don't believe in force training. But, there is a difference between forcing a horse and being a Leader. Being a Leader is critical. There are horses you can get away with being "just a friend" with, but most horses will either start dominating you, or will not trust your leadership when they need a leader IF you are "just a friend."

Take the two buddy horses he is talking about. When something scary happens they both do what? They look at the herd leader horse for guidance. You want to be THAT horse.

I like the term "benevolent dictator."

ErinR76

you're right in that he needs to use the language that he doesn't want to use. What are you doing when you ask a horse to back, stay or come? You're leading. So even if he doesn't want to call it that, that's what he's doing. You still can't deny, though, that he is acting like a benevolent leader and that he does respect the right of individuality and choice of the horse which is of course wonderful, and you do that too.

Okay taking the two buddy horses he is talking about. I had two of these at a place I boarded at. Breeze was the herd leader (herd of eight), but honestly, Valentine, in their relationship of two, could move her, just as easily as she could move Valentine. It truly was an equal relationship, as far as my human perceptions could perceive, and believe me I pondered and observed this relationship for a good three years and could never decide which of the two was 'dominant' or 'leader' over the other one. It was a true give and take and they would switch roles.

Clarissa, Yes! spoilt brats!! As much as I don't like to, I have to 'get onto' sasha about this once in a while, such as when she needs her feet trimmed and she wants to get back to the herd. So sorry, just a fact of life, Miss Priss

ErinR76

Clarissa!! I clicked on your page and then started reading about omentum and parsley and tabouli and fat and I am starting another thread for us! Please pop over to General Chat!!

Hertha

When discretionary spending is limited, it is hard to know if it would be money well spent. I think his idea of linking it to the cost of a weekend with a clinician is a good one.

I still need to watch his video clips. The thing to remember is that there are many ways to teach a horse something. Each horse/person partnership is unique. The good horsepeople are the ones who can read the learning needs of each individual horse and have a big enough toolbox to present new learning to that horse in a way it can understand.

So any 'packaged' HOW TO deal can be both enlightening and limiting, depending on how the person uses it.

My horse comes, backs, moves sideways, bows, spins, stays in one spot, lines up a mounting block, halts, moves with vertical poll flexion, turns on the forehand and on the hindquarters, goes sideways, gets on her pedestal, plays the Shadow Game over obstacles, all with verbal and or body language signals.

We got to these ends in our own potpourri way.

Like you, I'm still immensely curious on Chuck's take on teaching these things.

In terms of hierarchy, I believe we can be 'friends' with our horse and I especially advocate walking and grazing and hanging out together, and learning universal horse language as per C Resnick.

However, if human and horse are walking toward each other there are three choices.
1. They can embrace
2. The horse gives way
3. The person gives way

If a number 3 happens, you can quickly be in trouble. I see it all the time with Boots who has a very dominant personality, when she meets new people.

Clarissa

Hertha

Clarissa wrote:

Actually Hertha I think there is good possibility of a 4th option there.

Either the horse or the human could change the game before they got to the meeting point.

That's cheating, Clarissa

If either the horse or the person changes the game before they meet, it is a whole different situation.

It leads to what C Resnick calls 'reciprocal movement'. Sometimes we politely move around the horse (give way to it) and sometimes the horse moves out of our direct line of movement.

When I'm cleaning the paddock, I move around the horses. And interestingly, they usually move around me or just come up to inspect the wheelbarrow.

When I go out with a halter or just some treats in my pocket, I tend to veer away once they've seen me and go admire the scenery with my back to them and wait to see who comes over to greet me.

Mind you, Smoky loves his interactions so much that he nickers and comes straight over anytime he sees me, especially now that I've started playing with him on a daily basis. He is naturally a very social fellow.

Boots is much more aloof but usually curiosity gets the better of her.

So my 3 points in the post above are linked to an actual 'coming together', greeting each other and what happens next.

People tend to underestimate the significance of the 'first encounter'. This is when the horse is sizing us up. Just like he would be sizing up another horse not in his immediate band. Just like we size up new people when we meet them for the very first time.

{My husband has an amazing knack for this. It takes him 30 seconds and he is usually right. Often I'll give people the benefit of the doubt and weeks, months, or years later I see that he was right all along!}

ErinR76

I would encourage anyone curious about FT to join the yahoo group. There is in the 'files' folder on the left when you are on the group page, lots of documents to read. One gives the general outline of FT. For specific instruction you have to pay Chuck the one time lifetime fee though. But still lots of good info on the files section!! And good discussion on the list.

ErinR76

Oooo, oooo! I just read something very interesting. In this article

http://www.whisperingacres.com.au...rticles/Freedom%20of%20Choice.pdf

right in the beginning, he mentions why he never uses drive from behind in his interactions with horses. This goes against what Carolyn Resnick does in the waterhole rituals, and also against what one would do in friendship training. Very interesting!!

Hertha

Nice. Did you pay up join Friendship_Training?

Was there any reason given for not driving from behind? Since Boots is learning to be a harness pony, driving from behind is sort of important!!!

Doesn't sound like that horse was part of a harmonious herd.

ErinR76

No I didn't, I just hung out on the group long enough to be able to tell what it was all about. I don't know the full procedures but basically if you reread earlier on this thread, its not about using the same rituals most horses in a herd use on each other. It is about using the same rituals that PAIR BONDED horses use with each other, which apparently are devoid of the usual pushing and dominating seen with most other herd members.

Of course a horse trained for driving must be lead from behind, I think that's grounds for an exception

And I think that perhaps with a more dominant aggressive or dangerous horse, it wouldn't be a mistake to begin using lead from behind, then perhaps work on FT if that's the route you wanted to go.

Did that make any sense what I said in the first paragraph?

ErinR76

one of the things that made me warm and fuzzy inside was to realize from the FT group that when my mare puts her head/jaw over my shoulder, that is an action of a pair bonded horse to another horse

Its the horsey-hug.

Hertha

I'm still lurking on their forum and have Mark Hanson's book, which is really good. He sent me his book and I sent him mine plus my DVD & Note sets.

He puts together a well thought out set of models.

Interesting to focus on the pair-bond. Even with a pair, one member has to usually make any particular decision and communicate it to the other..

bit

Hey Erin, Yahoo doesn't seem to know about friendship training. Got a link for the group?

Tigerlily

i read a bunch of stuff about him yesterday, i thought i posted a question on here, but i guess i didn't hit the send button

by the way....you can find lots of stuff just by googling.....LOTS.
he mentions equine ethology/ists alot. and to be honest, i dont know wha that is. are ethologists like research scientists that only study behavior/culture etc or are these people with real life practical experience with horses, you know, feeding caring riding playing owning???

the reason i ask this, is that it seems much of his theory is based on findings of ethologists and he references thier work often. while i am completely open (obviously) to understand wild natural behavior of the horse....and then also open to study methods used that are founded in somehow trying to imitate the natural wild behaviors of horses....in order to better interact with my horse.........I also want to know if these ethologists have ever done any practical imperical research in this 'imitation' that WE all are using thier findings for.

he also has as one of the 'requirements' of the process to graduation (yes he has certified levels of his program, both amature and professional) is to watch and study the cloud documentaries. of which i just watched this weekend, so it is fresh in my mind.

one of the things i find interesting in both his idea's of pair bonding and CResnick/CRoyal rituals is that in watching how the 'bands' are constructed, destructed, restructed.....stolen, kidnapped and runaways......i wonder where all this has time to take place and develope.

cloud spent a great deal of time trying to steal mares, had them stolen from him, got some back etc...so it seems to me....alot of the herd dynamics/pair bondings can be easily upset....OFTEN. one of the mares he stole, had just such a pair bond with her previous stallion and apparently tried to leave cloud repeatedly, so he took the herd far away for quite a while, they came back near the time she was to foal, and she sneakily had her foal and used that as the perfect time to slip out the back door, back to the man of her dreams. they also suggested that even if the stallion 'wins' a mare....the new mare may not be accepted by the lead mare, and driven out.

so i guess what i am getting at, is that honestly after watching the cloud series, i think they are ALL right. CR's, Pat's 7 games, FT pair bonding.

because i just dont see in all this constant chaos of wife swapping, how on earth any of them can build a bond strong enough withstand this, if there was only ONE right way.

I will also say that IMHO.....when you hide what you do behind curtains, and expect people to pay LARGE sums of money to even get a peek at what is behind the curtain....it makes me leery. i much prefer that you just make dvd's or write a book. if i went to the deli and they had a new crab salad and told me it was $50lb but i couldn't sample it before buying and i could only by the whole bowl, not smaller portions.....i certainly would get the tuna salad that i could sample and purchase with much less risk.......my drift....something smells fishy

Tigerlily

oops, i meant to also say. i do infact find it all very interesting, watched a few dvd's, and think it does have merit.....just a risky investment with so much being 'unknown'

ErinR76

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Friendship_Training/

Tigerlilly, I uunderstand your queries. (root canal anastetic is in full swing so i'm totally not correcting typos lol) I bet the ethologists do have practical experience but youd have to check that out to be sure for yourself. i havent because I agree with the statement hat yes, all of these things are true, and there is not one right way that can explain it all in one neat package.

How long does it take for some human pairs to make a strong bond? Hours! Some take longer, there are too many variables and there are no solid answers.

I too was leery of the approach he takes (FT Founder) but after speaking with him directly (through email lol) and one of his certified people, the intention is good and pure and rooted in a desire that whoever undertakes it, do it will full faculties and resources (including personal guidance) available to them so that they can be successful, protect the horse (from betrayed trust and confusion), and not give FT a bad name.

That said, I have not chosen to invest in it because at this point in my journey, not only logistically, but psychologically, I can't commit to what is required.

Doesn't mean that there's nothing worthwhile there to be had for those who it is right for

Tigerlily

Erin,
thanks for the info. ever since my relationship went south with my horse and parelli made it worse not better…I have been plagued as to how to get it back. The WHR is helping immensely but I want to do what ever I can have what we once had. I have been looking at so much lately, I am not drawn to any one particular ‘brand’ so to speak. I was reading his website, and a few others this week, and a lot of it makes sense as to not only what went wrong, but possibly how to fix it as well. One of which he speaks (I think it is him) is that the dominance games just makes you a bully, no matter how nice you are about it. She is a smart and bratty LBE and as far as she is concerned, she is a princess. One thing that concerns me is, when I did a concept of letting her do what she wanted (ambassador of yes ‘pnh’)….she got REALLY bad and literally ran into another horse with me on her. I only tried this once and decided letting her ‘have her way’ was never going to be an option because once she gets the idea that she is in charge, she can get quite big to tell me her ideas are better than mine and cares not who ‘accidentally’ gets hurt while she proves this to me. she is actually quite a sweet mare.
So while I get what he is getting at, I have to wonder if it will take us down that equally dark road where she is in anyway the leader. So do you mind telling me what some of YOUR issues with it are?

I am going to try to join the yahoo group tonight if I can get a spot at the computer for a bit.

I think, so far, what I am taking away from it, is that I could continue on as I have been recently and add to it lots and lots of reward for good things…..what ever I can do to make her think, that ‘I’ think, she is the princess that she thinks, and I know, she is.

Hertha

Ethology is just the name for the study of animal behaviour. The behaviour and culture of a species as living 'naturally', ie. wild, is called the ethogram of that species.

The trouble is that many people do not understand the horse's ethogram.

Basically horses eat coarse plant material during most of the day and night and usually need to move continually to find adequate calories and water sources.

So freedom of movement and a constant steady small stream of food thru the gut are horse health essentials. Not only physical health, but mental and emotional and spiritual health as well.

To contain a species, whose need is to be free-ranging, in small spaces leads to stress. To feed 'meals' rather than constant nibble, leads to physiological problems because horses have a continuous stream of gastric juice into the stomach and need to keep the bacteria in their caecum continually happy in order to gain the nutrients from their food.

The more people treat horses like dogs (kenneled, fed a meal or two daily and occasionally taken for a run) the harder it is on the horse.

The more our management systems curtail the essentials of continuous nibbling and continuous movement, the more stressed the horse will be.

Then there are the problems of 'dressing' horses in clothes and pounding nails into them and sticking things into their mouths. None of which is part of their ethogram

But no doubt you know all that.

PasoBaby_CarolU

The Cloud Series is a Nature program Hertha. Not sure how you would get it there. Here is the first of the program. It was a several year study of the birth of this stallion and then his life in subsequent years. I should warn you there are parts that are difficult to watch.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/ep...n-of-the-rockies/introduction/29/

I think about FT now in light of like the Horsenalities and UDT in Parelli, and the WHR with Carolyn. What I see as a common thread here is spending time with horses with a little bit different goal. Spending more time learning from them, then you do teaching them. I find this study quiet interesting and glad to see a growing movement of "horse listeners"....

And I'm sure you will find people all over who consider themselves 'horsemen' who would consider all this a waste of time. I personally find what I do on the ground with my horses much more interesting then my saddle time. Except for trail riding and studying dressage, or training a youngster, I'd much rather do ground games. I think the beauty of Cavalia, and other programs like it, is they really show you the beauty in horse behavior.

ErinR76

you said, "....while she proves this to me...."

the thing is, when we've spent our lives dominating our horses, not matter how nicely, ...

...and some take to it just fine, and some dont!.....

....when we finally committ to the change, they don't believe us. As happened when your mare got a taste of being in charge and she ran you into another horse.

If you undertake to completely change your relationship with your horse, you have to be willing to commit to that change permanently. Long enough for her to believe you, and for you guys to formulate a truly united partnership. When there is trust and cooperation there, she will not be running you into another horse.

The 'issues' I have are that I don't live with my horse on my property. According to FT you have to have sole control over your horse and be the only one handling it. I board, so that's just not a possibility. The other thing is, I take my horse out to ride, etc. I'm happy with my current situation and so don't wish to change it, which is good, BECAUSE I CAN'T CHANGE IT since I don't live with her/have sole control over her and her care. Does that make sense? And the way it was told to me, if you begin this journey, but then arent' committed..ie you go back, there is a supreme sense of betrayal and loss of trust on the part of the horse. Imagine you have a husband who treats you very disrespectfully.

By some chance, he begins to change his attitude towards you. You are dubious, but you see a glimmer of hope that he has really changed for the better. Then, he relapses and begins to treat you the old way. You feel betrayal and a loss of trust. The damage is done, It will be very hard to believe him again, and if you even do, there will always bee that doubt, and the bond will not likely be complete. It's the same with FT. Its called FRIENDSHIP TRAINING. ITS TRAINING FOR THE HUMAN! not the horse! Can we REALLY treat the horse as an equal and a friend? Respect his rights, moods, willingnesses (or not!) at all times? Are we really committed to that? It hurts, but I can't commit to that yet. I know for sure I will be able to given some time, but right now, no. So I accept what I can do right now, and since my mare accepts it now as it is (and STILL gives me horsey hugs and comes to me in the pasture!), we are both happy.

PS If you join the yahoo group there is a list of files. One of them is what is done in FT; not the specifics of how to do it, but what is done. Plus much more information about the why of FT.

ErinR76

one of the files from the list:

If we allow it, if we give our horse the opportunity,
it works just as well in reverse.

The Horse and the Child...
A small child was badly hurt, alone, lost and frightened.
Exhausted, in hopeless despair, he sat down,
folded his arms around his legs and tucked his head down.
Fear and desolation covered him, smothering him,
like a dark, cold blanket.
Slowly a shell, like a heavy seed covering, grew around the child folded
up inside.
But as thick as the covering grew,
the child inside still felt afraid, and lost, and alone.
The child eventually grew tired and cramped inside the seed,
but the seed shell had grown so hard and thick it would not break
open.
The child inside shivered as frost appeared on the outside of the shell,
like an icy, impenetrable warning to those who might come upon it.
Many passed by the frosted shell, but all ignored it.
One day, a Horse came by and saw the large, frosty shell,
glittering in the sun.
The Horse was curious, and came closer,
And reached out it's nose to sniff the hard seed.
The Horse's nose and breath were warm and melted the frost.
The Horse breathed again, nuzzling the icy shell,
and it began to thaw and melt away.
It was then he saw the folded-up child inside,
blinking in the unaccustomed sunlight, but not moving.
"Why don't you stand up?" asked the Horse.
"I have been cramped so long, I forgot how to use my legs,
and I am small and weak," the child replied.
The Horse said, "I am strong and can carry you."
"I can hardly breathe," said the child.
The Horse said, "Ride with me,
and drink the winds of the earth to your hearts desire."
"Feebly reaching a shaking hand up to the horse, the child said,
"I am no good, everyone hates me . I don’t fit in the world."
The Horse said, "In your voice, and your gentle touch, I feel comfort
and would gladly be your friend. Then we both will have a place we
belong,
where another cares for us ,
and neither one of us will ever be alone again.
"But I am ugly," the child muttered.
The Horse said, "I can only see a beautiful heart,
hurt perhaps and torn,
but flickering like a candle fighting the stormy darkness."
"I am afraid," the child whimpered.
The Horse said, "Ride with me, and together,
we will never fear anything again."
"I have nothing," said the child. "I AM nothing
but a worthless piece of garbage."
The Horse said, "You have MUCH to offer. Talk to me. Take the stone
from my hoof, show me the good grass, rid me of the insects biting me,
free my foot from the vines, lead me to clear water and brush the
straw from my eye. Heal my wounds, and in so doing, I will heal yours. "
"I do not understand my hurt and shame," the child tearfully cried.
The Horse said, “I will stand with you forever,
until the hurt and shame are gone, and the tears no longer fall."
By ourselves, we are little,
But together we can conquer anything.
And as they talked the child began to unfold.
He reached out his arm to the Horse and slowly stood up beside him.
The child hesitantly smoothed the Horse's mane,
as the Horse nickered softly, gently nosing the child's hand.
Soon, the Horse’s breath chased the last cold chill from the child’s
body and,
without speaking, the child got up on the Horse’s back ,
and they moved on together,
enjoined in a way that mankind, and it's worldly knowledge,
cannot and will not ever define.

PasoBaby_CarolU

ErinR76

I definitely agree that you can't take a one size fits all approach. Only you can decide what is most appropriate for your horse! That little disclaimer exists no matter if it's said or not!

Its all about balance. There's no such thing as one size fits all approaches to balance. It has to be tailored to each individual relationship! And in FT, there is nothing in there that says you cannot lead a horse in a way that is appropriate to him, or that you can't protect yourself. It just has to be done with a certain mindset.

I was told by those in FT that its nothing like WHR. I begged to differ; it is a LOT like it in some ways! But, it's also different in many ways!

And, people like to totally miss the forest for the trees. its FRIENDSHIP training.

Think about a good friendship. Its modeled on that. Carol, what you said in your last statement might be true for some, but they would be missing the whole point of a FRIENDSHIP. There is a definition of friendship, and that is NOT letting someone walk all over you for the sake of avoiding confrontation. Those who approach horse training methods, I don't care WHAT its called, with that mindset, will FAIL. You're right. That's not what FT is about.

Tigerlily

Carol I think that is great to keep in mind. UDT/sharing territory et all…..that we learn just as much, bond more, during these times as we do when we ‘do’ something. Like the yin/yang. And I think too that the ‘love, language, leadership in equal doses’ is probably the safest, fairest, and most REALISTIC mantra to have.

I think that above all else, a program or system, must be realistic before it can be successful to many, not just a few. Like you said Erin…..it is not realistic for MOST horse owners to have absolute and sole control over a horse during every 24hr period 365days a year. The farther a program deviates from reality, the more difficult and unrealistic it becomes. There are great programs out there, but they are radical and extreme. Such as Nevzorov. While there may be some very good stuff in there, it is so extreme in it’s views it is not realistic for the average horse owner. Such as ‘pass thru town’ clinicians. They may be the BEST horseman in the world. But they are only here for a couple days a year, expensive, have no ‘system’ to follow, you have to share your precious time with MANY other people, little one on one help……and what on earth do you have the rest of the year for help and support? What really are you left with once they are gone. This may be perfect for a handful of students, but overall not realistic for the majority as a lasting and meaningful way for something that takes everyone a lifetime to master. Usually the ones with the best success rate from one of the ‘pass thru clinicians’ got a good foundation from some OTHER program, or have been picking away at this already for nearly a life time. It is merely a ‘fill in the gap’ kind of training……not a realistic overall approach.

Erin you mentioned earlier about ‘leading’. That while one may ‘say’ they do not use a ‘alpha leadership’ approach, but in reality if we ask our horse to do ANYthing, we are in fact taking a leadership approach, whether we like it or not. And like Carol said, some horses would do well with giving them some freedom to lead to boost their confidence etc (like my RBI mustang) and others simply take advantage and expect and seek every opportunity to be the leader again and it could be dangerous, like with my LBE mare. I don’t want to talk about this much as it is a long story, but after I sold my draft mare, I learned that the lady I sold her to was the owner of the yellow horse via watching the movie. One of the things my friend and I were discussing is that it appeared that the yellow horse was treating her as one of his mares. He ‘owned’ her, protected her from being stolen, and put her in her place when he thought she was going to leave or be stolen. If you watch the whole scene, as many times as I have, and then having watched the cloud series…..I think it is a real possibility for what may have been going on his mind. He pair bonded with her from birth, and was NOT going to let anyone take her away, be near her, or let her leave……and with everything else it got REALLY out of control. If you have the opportunity, watch it again and look at it from that point of view…..eerily plausible. Afterall, his life started with her as his mother, friend….she was his EVERYTHING. Now flash forward and add hormones and the natural instinct to have stallion behavior. While she may have been injured, and unable to ‘train’ him. She still was there everyday, feeding and otherwise caring for them. If no other mares were around (pasture of 18 stallions) and 17 other "men" to compete with…..and he already believed she was ‘his’……And maybe some of the behavior when he is corralled is that he has been taken away from her, can't get to her to protect what he feels is his.....so he lashes out at everyone trying to get free to round up his 'mare'......makes sense to me. But that is just my ‘theory’ that adds with the other, lack of ogygen/handling/gelding that makes up the sum of the whole as well.

I definitely understand and agree with “FRIENDSHIP” training is about the relationship, not a training method. It’s about learning how to BE a good friend. And I really like those kinds of ‘mindsets’ such as also WHR’s. Which is why I am honestly interested in this ‘method’ and wish it wasn’t set up like it is, with so much money up front. He could probably have a big hit book on his hands….but I understand……everyone needs to make a buck to survive and deserves to be paid something for their ‘inventions’, and this is the way he feels he can secure his ‘invention’ and protect his livelihood. I think there are few who can appreciate that. I am one of them.

Now i just need to join that group so i can learn all that i can from what they offer on there.

ErinR76

that is a very good observation about the yellow horse. Kelley I believe was his name. I am very interested in the owner and how she is getting along now. I bet the world is!

Tigerlily

Tigerlily

OUCH!!!!!

my brain, heart, soul, pride inteligence and ego are bruised and bleeding!!!! during my research, and sadly i am only at the beginning of that, this whole FT and Ethology thing does not think to highly of the general horse owning public. If they had the oportunity, we would all be hung and burned!

Since i don't have 'discretionary' monies, and the hefty $1000 fee for a program that can only be taught by one man on the whole planet....I decided to do a little digging and see if i could research some ethology studies and see what i could figure out for myself. I figured, that is all that this guy did........"read a few ethology books, watch a wild horse documentary or two, and create his own imitation of how horses pair bond"......I thought to myself...I am a reasonably intelligent person....if he can do it....why can't I? dontknow

(not to mention, i am not so sure i agree with or can abide by some of his "rules")

Well, based on one of the ethogists articles, regarding "whisperers, snake charmers and charletons" he would be at the very top of the list of people to run away from and certainly no leave any money behind us before we do so.

I found so far, all of them to be at or near the top of the 'extremist' list.....and based on thier own advice on how to spot a charleton.....they themselves would be one. sounds to me that most of them think we are all too stupid, cruel and egotisitcal to own horses and that no where in thier studies is there room for ANY kind of happy medium. They seem to be VERY narrow minded, hippocritical and hypercritical....when it comes to judging the modern day horse owner....after they have completed thier 'studies' of horses in thier natural setting.

I find it arrogant at best that such sweeping and global condemnation be placed on every horse owner/trainer on the planet....except themselves.

How on earth we can all go on living with ourselves is beyond them and based on them, i should wake up tomorow and put a bullet in my head or my horses and end this horrific existence and put one or both of us out of our misery.

Sad and pathetic as I think there is alot of merit to thier findings, just cant see how i can join someone who thinks I may infact be the devil. angryfire

NEXT.........

ErinR76

oooo! well can you share some links to some of the sites that you read? who exactly are 'they?'

Hertha

Beware of all extremists!

PasoBaby_CarolU

Very good observation Michelle...thank you for sharing it.

I would have to agree with Hertha. I think to successfully teach something you have to believe that you are teaching it correctly...and that goes for any area of study. But, to think that you are ONLY person who teaches it correctly is taking the "healthy ego" thing right off the edge of the cliff. It also flies in the face of all the empirical evidence provided everywhere of all the successful trainers out there, and all the healthy horses they have trained.

I think anytime you run into someone who needs to elevate how great they are by degenerating others, it is a good idea to head the other way. They may indeed know a lot about the subject (e.g., horse training), but they have lost all objectivity, so wrapped up in their own importance.

Good point Michelle..

Tigerlily

Oh no Carol...NO NO NO.......according to him....he is the ONLY one who teaches it PERIOD....nevermind the correctness of it. No one else, ANYwhere teaches pair bonding. NOone else has discovered the secrets of it, and devised a way for humans to duplicate it.

other than that, i agree with everything you said

I agree with hertha, his video's are interesting, but certainly no one (here) is going to be moved or enlightened by them. Not after all the stuff we have seen from parelli. And hertha also recanted the 'gist' of the ethologists findings, regarding diet housing and management.

so this is how i take it.
1. they study the horse in thier natural environment
2. publish thier findings
here's where it goes south...way south
3. rather than make opinions as to how to use this info to our advantage, which they do to some extent, they take it all the way to the extreme in that NO training is good for the horse, because if somewhere in all this stuff.....(diet, housing, mngmnt, training.) we have a deviation from the natural ethogram, than anything else that follows is a lie.

So, even if our horse is in a herd and pasture and barefoot, if it is mares only, mare gelding, geldings only.....before we ever get to the training, we are so far off of the natural living environment (stallions shouldn't be gelded, and all horses should live in family units stallion and mares) that the stress from this will mean that we could not possibly 'train' a horse and have him happy. trust me, i about fell of my chair reading some of this stuff. Now even if they could turn a blind eye to our 'management' just about any (can't think of one on the planet this wuold not apply to) trainer, could not teach us because if he is charging money, he could not possibly be the real deal and must be just trying to get your money. beyond that, lets not forget that he is the devil because he uses a bit and a saddle......and there is no doubt in my mind that if you use a round pen, you will go to hell. STRAIGHT to HELL.

The reason that i started to research ethology, was because the FT guy uses them as his main source of validation, and reading some of it is mandatory before you can 'apply' to "buy".....which i find it ironic, because according to this one ethologists ideas and definitions, he would be the LAST person one should study from. read this first, its a good way to 'ease' you into your hatred of yourself
http://www.equine-behavior.com/whisperers_revisited1.htm
making him the worst of the worst. of course pat, clinton, buck, monty etc would be right below him on the list.

now this guy has a lot of articles
http://www.equine-behavior.com/articleindexpage.htm
and he was one of 3 ethologists that i was reading yesterday. i couldn't read all the articles as i was going blind staring at the screen, and they are lengthy. and i dont believe this is one of the etho's he recomends, but could be, honestly i just dont care enough at this point to bother cross referencing that 'fact'. i have seen enough.

now, acording to this one article (charletons) and what i know about 'marketing'.....this FT guy, uses 'guilt' to his advantage too....because his one glooming question is.......starts of with telling you how wrong you are, and this wrongness applies to the whole planet, so yes you are wrong too......then tells you, if you dont change you dont care......then asks.......how much do YOU care? what kind of relationship do you "really" want to have?

then.....to top it off, you have to apply. now, he does state he has turned few away, because it would be unethical of him to teach anyone his methods, if you dont fit the 'criteria' as you just wont be 'successful'. if you deviate from the programs strict requirements, you will be immediately expelled without refund. And based on the above etho's article he is the worst of the worst as far as charletons go, but since everyone is a charleton....i guess the degree at this point doesn't matter

The one thing that really rubs me raw about all this is that while they have NO problem pointing the finger at the whole world....that it just can't be done right because if you cause the horse any kind of stress (starting at weaning) anything that follows is wrong and a lie. yes carol they do recognize the "we" THINK we are creating happy horses, but according to them, we are delusional because it is a lie. Our horses are soo brainwashed that they have no choice but to 'appear' happy in the whole charade of slavery, because the majority of us, on some level to varying degrees, use the alpha/dominance theory. YET, they cannot offer any 'realistic' solution, because there is no happy medium. anything short of a horse living wild with no fences is a delusion based on our own ego and selfishness. so according to them, even this ONE guy, is evil. he too uses fences and rides his horses (horses should not be ridden).

the whole thing to me is soo preposterous, it is mind boggling. this one guy even has a 'project' to see if there is a 'commercial' solution to 'owning' a horse and it is not going well. mainly because at one point he 'betrayed' the trust of the stallion and thus the stallion has never forgiven him and now it is hard to even move horses from one pasture to another.

he does in one article 'humor' us, mainly because we are too small minded to want to hear the 'truth' and change our ways.

all i can say is this, they do have merit and they ARE right, but so are we. there is a happy medium. yes many horses suffer due to poor management, training and ignorance. But there is no REALISTIC way that every horse on the planet is going to go back to being in the wild, so why not take your findings and help us find the middle ground. stop condemning those that TRY to get as close to the horses natural ethogram as is REALISTICALLY possible, and go after those that are a blatant and grotesque deviation. because if you act like you are acting....like an extremist, no one will bother to listen to you!

One of the reasons why i love parelli, is that despite all it faults, they have reached more humans on the planet than anyone else. they have opened more eyes to treating a horse well than anyone else. they have helped more humans help more horses than anyone else. this is GLOBAL and the improvements to horses welfare both physically and mentally have been HUGE.....far above marginal. yes, they charge money. but how could they reach this many people world wide if they didn't. Despite its faults, it has come the closest to be able to teach people without ever meeting them, how to change for the better, than anything else. it is the closest because despite OUR shortcomings, at least we try, at least we care enough to try. parelli has opened many doors for people that have gone on beyond parelli, learning even more. some will leave and condemn pnh, but, the question is.....would you be where you are now, had you never found parelli? would your eyes be open to all these fabulous methods that surround us had you not started with parelli? these etho's are truly missing the big picture. sure maybe 20ys from now we will see more faults with the methods we use, speaking about ALL methods here, and see how round penning is bad (i really get the theory now why i will probably never do it again) but i see no reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

c'mon......get off your very high pedestal....and come up with some realistic solutions

or get back on your very high horse and ride away!

as for others i came across, i will have to see if i can find them again. i was at work (shhh) and didn't email myself the links. suffice to say, everything i found was much of the same of the above website and there is plenty there to keep you busy for quite a while

jackspark

Hertha

What amused me most - well two things really.

1. You get life-long assistance upon paying, but the gentleman concerned is fairly elderly ..........................

2. We all, any species including people, live 'contained' by our environment and lots of us have to go through daily routines of paid or unpaid work in order to know where our next meal and rent/mortgage/taxes are going to come from.

3. If we can get our horses living in company with other horses, with room to move reasonable distances (not locked into boxes), shoeless, bitless and undressed, but with adequate shelter they can use by choice, plus feed roughage on a drip feed method, that's about as good as it's going to get. If we can also build some interest and fun to keep curiosity and the brain moving and growing with training that the horse can understand, that is even better. I don't think Chuck is doing any more than that plus applying C Resnick type things.

What people forget is that life 'out on the range naturally' is a darn rough life. Horses don't move because they want to move. They move because out there they have to move to get enough calories and access to water. They need to watch out for neighbouring competitive horses (who require the exact same resources from the environment) and predators. It ain't no picnic out there.

So yeah, we want to 'contain' our horses as close to their ethogram as possible, but as Tigerlily said, it has to go both ways. The saddle has to fit the horse and the person, so to speak.

The name Friendship Training is an oxymoron anyway. You can educate and train yourself to become more knowledgeable about how horses really live so you can become more empathetic.

You can train yourself to maintain emotional neutrality and show love and joyful feelings.

BUT you can't TRAIN friendship. You can create environments that allow the horse to access you as a herd member. You might gel together with a nice pair bond, but you can't TRAIN friendship.

I think that's why Pat kept away from the 'training' word in his logos until he was overwhelmed by the need to be 'search friendly' on the Internet.

Just my 2 cents worth

PasoBaby_CarolU

ROFL Michelle, I enjoyed your 'rant.' I'm interested in Hertha or Blue's take on this. Is it an accredited school? They offer a degree, but I didn't see that it was accredited by any college or university.

It was an interesting read. In the "about us" tab I was looking for degrees and accreditation.

ErinR76

I don't think so, not in the way you are thinking of.

This whole thing (anything manmade) is just all made up anyways, so what's the difference if someone or group of people offer 'certification' or 'degree' in something? If the founder of any methodology wants to certify it, how is that different than another group of say, some other sort of methodology, wants to certify it (and people)? Parelli has levels and certified instructors, with one man (Pat) as the source. Most other big name clinicians have certified teachers. What prevents the founder of FT from certifying his method and having teachers? Does that automatically taint and villify them? I don't think so, inherently.

Although I will say that when it comes to the idea of organizations and methodologies that have a narrow view, a single source and exclude the wisdom and input of all else... they don't particularly personally appeal to me personally. But people, organizations etc can only glean power from those that 'feed into' them. Those that have more money and more organizational skills can have a much larger sphere of influence than those that don't.

This applies to all aspects of life...government, corporations, etc too, not just teachers and religions.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Erin, I will have to disagree. I could care less if he offered a Certificate of Training or some other such nonsense. Even a red string and certificate. But a Degree suggests an accredited school, which means peer reviewed material and specific acceptance standards and graduation requirements. Not some farmer making it up as he goes.

You can be that when I go the MD or take my horses to a Vet, I want to see a real degree from a real University.

That is not to say they have ALL the answers, western medicine largely ignores eastern medicine, which has a lot to offer also. I have one vet who practices both, and I went to PT that practiced both. But I still want that real Degree on the wall.

And when I feed my horse a drug, I want to know that drug is tested, made in a certified pharmacy, and is pure.

60 minutes had a story on Sunday about "doctors" from other countries giving Botox injections and performing laser surgery at Spas and strip mall offices. One was giving anesthesia made for horses, not humans. When there are bad reactions these "doctors" disappear with your money and set up shop elsewhere. Many times these people make up their degrees and certificates and they're not even from real schools. One man they caught was an accountant by training. Had no medical training at all. Performed surgery with an Exacto knife. No shit.

So....a Degree does mean something.

ErinR76

I agree. Notice I did not say 'medicine' or 'science' in my list above

(oh whoops I did say all, so I'll have to take that back)
For sure, I want those people to have studied facts that have been proven and people practicing that have been tested.

On the subject of what we put in our horses' bodies, what about our own bodies, where cosmetics and personal care industry can use any chemicals they want without them being tested or approved? We absorb through our pores into our bloodstream these chemicals and these chemicals, in part, are resulting in more diseases and cancers than we have ever known, just look at the statistics. At least if we ingest it internally, our livers and internal organs have a blood filter there. A degree only means something if it's based on objective study (read: more than one source, as I mentioned earlier....) and factual data (which in some fields, like horse training, is harder to come by.

PasoBaby_CarolU

Actually Erin, most commercial cosmetics and personal care products are tested - read this page, I remember the controversy over it:

http://www.geari.org/faqdraize.html

They test because they don't want to be sued for blinding someone or causing serious injury. But, you are totally right. There are all kinds of chemicals in them and in much of the food we eat. It is all pretty discouraging. If you don't grow your own...and who can realistically, then you are subject to a lot of crud.

What does amaze me though is that people will look at test results - and drugs are a good example - that show X number of potential risks in X percentage of users, and it will scare them off using the drug. They'll instead use a herbal remedy that has "natural" on the label...that isn't tested at ALL! Random tests have shown that was is on the label sometimes isn't even in the product at all. Scary!

bit

"And based on the above etho's article he is the worst of the worst as far as charletons go, but since everyone is a charleton....i guess the degree at this point doesn't matter"

See? The degee doesn't matter. I'd like to know the readers digest version of what he does. You know, like Appelitivo did for cr's training? Notes, right to the point, this is what ya do. Doesn't mean I'd use it. I may use some of it.
I do a little cr eveyday. I use a lot of energy, low, med high, mellow, fun, calm, friendly, to interact with the herd. I think it's the energy that connects us all. People, horses, all that is. It's my thang. I guess we all have our own way with our world.
The ft guy has found his thang. I don't judge. I don't judge Pat. I do tend to be a little fussy about CA. I'm working on it. Thang is, the ft guy has found his thang, he charges, a lot and it may be the best thang ever. I'd like a demo. I'd like to know more. Like Tiger Lily, I cannot justify paying 1000.00.
The degree doesn't mean much to me. I know way too many doctors with them that shouldn't be doctors. Give me results. Healing. Answers. It does me no good if it is beyond my reach.

ErinR76

This is from your link above:

Not Required by Law

The federal Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act does not require cosmetics manufacturers to test their products for safety, and does not require animal tests. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommends, however, that companies substantiate the safety of their products, or else attach a warning label to potentially hazardous products. Many companies therefore continue to perform the Draize test mainly because they are in the habit of using the test, and because their legal departments and insurance companies suggest they do the tests to cover themselves when they are sued. The fact that animal tests have been conducted does not mean the product has then been altered to make it less harmful if misused, so the term "safety testing" is a misnomer.

And this is from the EWG website, a statement of who they are and what they do, along with a link to their page with myriads of information on what you can do to inform and protect yourself.

"At EWG, our team of scientists, engineers, policy experts, lawyers and computer programmers pores over government data, legal documents, scientific studies and our own laboratory tests to expose threats to your health and the environment, and to find solutions. Our research brings to light unsettling facts that you have a right to know."

http://www.ewg.org/bodyburden/consumerproducts

EWG, though, is not the only place I've read about these chemical dangers. I'll just beseech each person to investigate for themselves. Here's one article, and one short movie:

A rose may be a rose. But that rose-like fragrance in your perfume may be something else entirely, concocted from any number of the fragrance industry’s 3,100 stock chemical ingredients, the blend of which is almost always kept hidden from the consumer.

Makers of popular perfumes, colognes and body sprays market their scents with terms like “floral,” “exotic,” or “musky,” but they don’t disclose that many scents are actually a complex cocktail of natural essences and synthetic chemicals – often petrochemicals. Laboratory tests commissioned by the Campaign for Safe Cosmetics and analyzed by Environmental Working Group revealed 38 secret chemicals in 17 name brand fragrance products, topped by American Eagle Seventy Seven with 24, Chanel Coco with 18, and Britney Spears Curious and Giorgio Armani Acqua Di Gio with 17.

The average fragrance product tested contained 14 secret chemicals not listed on the label. Among them are chemicals associated with hormone disruption and allergic reactions, and many substances that have not been assessed for safety in personal care products.

Also in the ranks of undisclosed ingredients are chemicals with troubling hazardous properties or with a propensity to accumulate in human tissues. These include diethyl phthalate, a chemical found in 97 percent of Americans (Silva 2004) and linked to sperm damage in human epidemiological studies (Swan 2008), and musk ketone, a synthetic fragrance ingredient that concentrates in human fat tissue and breast milk (Hutter 2009; Reiner 2007).

http://safecosmetics.org/article.php?id=682

ErinR76

Bit, I bet there are a few people here who have spent at least 1,000 on Parelli and/or other horse training methodologies or material. I know I have. I am just being a bit of devils advocate here, sorry cant help it. But I didn't do it in one fell swoop, so it made it more palatable. I have not and will not at this point in my thinking sign up for chuck's FT knowledge and I'd be thrilled if someone who has, did share, but hey, that's their prerogative. If I had a thousand bucks to be privy to it, I'm still not sure I'D share. I like to honor people's wishes and who am I to steal someone's thunder. I don't like the idea of being a betrayer.

Wait a minute, I sort of did that with the WHR notes didn't I?

I'm not charging anyone or doing it for a living, does that soften it up a bit?! No, wait, Carolyn has seen my site and has not asked me to remove it, so my conscience remains clean. Whew, that was a close one!

ErinR76

I was trying to find out who Elaine Nash is (that whole 'blanketing article' thing) and I came across this article by her and the story in it shows the type of 'friendship bond' that Chuck is talking about forming with our horses....notice how the two had a special bond and preferred each other's company to the rest of the herds....

http://www.facebook.com/media/set...93.207708.331199206493&type=1

PasoBaby_CarolU

ErinR76

pore
1 [pawr, pohr] Show IPA
verb (used without object), pored, por·ing.
1.
to read or study with steady attention or application: a scholar poring over a rare old manuscript.

Hertha

I used to 'pour over' things too. Guess I'll be 'poring' from now on.

Interesting article, Erin. Thanks for posting the link.

I had a gelding that had a very similar relationship with a friend's mare. They didn't live together, but visited overnight regularly. Each reunion was instant and profound.