When Pigs Fly

Tigerlily · When Pigs Fly

I looked out my window and saw pigs flying and the weather lady said it was indeed a cold day in hell. It must be if I am doing French Classical Dressage. Something that in my youth, my narrow minded German Classical Dressage Brain said I would never do, ya know.....'when pigs fly or when it is a cold day in hell'. Ya.....so that day has come, and no one is more shocked than I am. I currently just do not have the funds for in depth research of this method, to purchase the literature of masters long since dead, or current masters, only to find out they are of the German method. My library is already a vast one in the German Style I do not need more of the same.

As I google this, I am finding it difficult to even know where to start. Much of the literature is still written in the native language of the masters such as French, which of course I cannot speak, let alone read. I have conceded to reading knowledgeable scholars interpretations, written on forums, blogs and websites along with the few dvd's I have found from Phillipe Karl, Craig Stevens, Jean-Claude Racinet and Dominique Barbier. So if anyone knows of any produced French style dvd's and books from anyone other than the above authors.... in "english".....PLEASE share with me who they are.

What I am not looking for, at least at this point, is a natural horsemanship interpretation of the subject matter. I am looking for the Classical Dressage. The more I read, the more I am realizing that Dorrance, Parelli, Anderson, Buck and the like have.... for better or worse, a foundation in this style. But it is their own interpretation as it relates to their end goal....COW work and the vaquero style. Like I said, for better or worse, I am learning there is alot that is misinterpreted and or applied incorrectly, and at this point, it just isn't what I am looking for. I want the info from a master artist, not the guy who tries to copy him and fails near miserably, while attempting to manipulate this information to his own end means. I want it straight from the horses mouth, not the jockey's.

If you would have asked me 20ys or even 2 weeks ago if I ever thought I would be doing this.....lordy the eyes would have been rolling for sure. But here I am, seeing that it can be learned, easily, even by ME!

Now that I have made my request, let me tell y'all, "long time no see". I went from not really being online because I was out have a blast with my horse, to not being online due to being a couch jockey from bustin up my knee pretty good and having surgery. During my time on my back, I thought about a dvd i watched a while ago, regarding a "second manner" boucher, which is of course french, and it has been stewing in the back of my mind on the top shelf. the only thing that caused me to give it a second thought, is the fact that I am limited to walk only on my horse for a while, now that i am back in the saddle. the french style seemed much more 'do-able" in my current condition since every thing french starts at the halt and then walk and so forth. I didn't have much to go on my first two rides, then I got Phillipe Karls dvd friday and watched it. OMG....lightbulbs were going off like fireworks, and after only two rides, Rose and I totally "get it" and I wish I woulda done this sooner. Things from my past dressage and from my parelli, both good and bad, started to connect dots, that somehow in my mind over 20ys just havn't been able to get the dots to connect.

So here I am, spending my non saddle time this weekend, reading dressage forums seeking more info to get an even better understanding of the method. But so far, there is nothing I don't understand or disagree with. Not a sentence I ever thought would leave my lips for sure.

This is me, eating crow pie.

bit

Funny how you end up doing something you NEVER thought you'd be doing on a horse, leads you down a path that simply. Blows. Your. Mind. My drug is cows. It's opened my eyes to so many things that were missing in my horsemanship. It's crazy, to be in a western saddle, moving cows, and feeling PASSION! Whatever it is for you, it's worth finding. Just trail riding doesn't do it for me. So glad you have found your thang and hope you share your journey! In english!

Tigerlily

thanks bit. Dressage is my 'thang'. while i enjoy many other things such as hacking out and liberty....nothing gets me all riled up like dressage. it is THE part of my soul that has been missing for 13ys. and while it has been a wildly roller coastery ride, thru parelli, to hell and back.....I think maybe i just needed to go on that ride to finally come to where i couldnt get to all those years before. i have largely learned everything i know from books and a few video's, and a handful of lessons over the years. while it may be slower going, i have found it can have a deeper and more personal meaning to make the interpretation for ones self at times, as opposed to having someone else make it for you.

doing parelli was just that. it being that, mainly if you have aspirations of either being a pp or officially asses, you are bound by one mans interpretation of something....right or wrong. while i feel i got the deepest meaning and understanding from him regarding pressure and release, approach and retreat, and porcupine (honestly something that I didn't REALLY get until i studied parelli) alot of it has caused us to have to go round the bush to undo a few things learned too well, to our own detriment. such as the lateral flexion to the toe has caused my horse to disassociate her head from her feet, and neutral on the circle has caused us to not be connected. for the most part, parelli has taught me more good, and done more good than harm. so in the end i am far from regretful or resentful, as i see when i look around me at other practitioners, it is just more of the same misunderstanding, just of different things.

after a long hard 4ys, last weekend, i had the most meaningful ride of my life since retiring my beloved snookie 13ys ago. while it is nothing to write home about as far as perfection goes, it was a more like finding the end of the rainbow, finding me again. i couldn't believe what my green, barely ever riddin in a bit, and certainly never trying our had at dressage mare, Rose, was able to do on our very first dressage ride. none of it would have been possible without parelli, not of it would have been possible without my previous understanding of dressage. None of it would have been possible if i hadn't shredded my knee and been forced to 'walk only-no trot'...... it flowed like we had been doing it all our lives, minus a few arguments over the whole "aren't we suppose to be sidepassing?". things only got better over the next 2 rides after watching phillipe karls dvd. yesterday we were actually doing figure 8's with 6meter pirouette's and shoulder in. on our THIRD ride.

mainly just goofing off seeing what all we "could' do.

i agree with you, you have to find what makes your heart go pitter patter, and then do it with gusto, do it with passion, do it with love. like you do with the cows.

here is the lame little video of our first ride if you are interested. doing here on day one, what took close to 10ys to get with snookie (lots of wrong paths taken before i found the right one with her)

http://naturalmannershorsemanship...-in-leg-yields-turns-on-hqfq.html

as long as things continue to improve, we will continue on this path. if we hit a wall, i will have to stop and ponder where we have gone wrong.

PasoBaby_CarolU

You might try Mark Russell's "Lessons in Lightness." Speaking of which, I've been invited to attend a clinic of his in California next year. THAT is exciting...can't wait. I can either take Rosie or ride another Paso Fino there. It's like a 9-hour drive for me...but OH, I can learn so MUCH!

Tigerlily

thanks carol, just checked out his website and found i already have his 'riding with chi' dvd in my que. cool.

when/where is his clinic in CA?? i might like to attend, as an auditor most likely, as i am sure he is not only full, but out of my price range as well.

PasoBaby_CarolU

I'll PM you...

merle

You may want to take a look at Lisa Maxwell - she studied with Racinet and developed a DVD to go along with Racinet's books. Racinet had planned on doing the DVD but passed away before he could complete it.

Here is a link to the DVD

http://www.learningjoyresources.com/DressageFrenchClassical.html

imagele

Horse training:out-door and high school by E. Beudant, John A. Barry.

It i is a small book- not always easy to find. Just dont expect politicially correct natural horsemanship language. It took me a couple of reads to get past that particular hangup of mine.

There are a number of interpretations/translations of Baucher available.

My understanding is that the Vaquero tradition is more Spanish influenced than French since it was the Spanish who were the first European settlers in California. So I would also be looking for books in/from that area of Europe.

After seeing video of Racinet recently I found I was not as impressed as I expected to be given how I enjoyed the books of his I have.

But ..... Good horsemanship is good horsemanship - wherever you find it. I have read/studied a number of different traditions now and the one overriding thing that strikes me from all of them - the good horseman anyway - is their open mind and their willingness to look at something new when the time comes and apply it to a particular horse. They do not have a one size fits all or an absolute adherence to any rules that others (including their students) can sometimes have.

Tigerlily

I totally agree about a good horseman is a good horseman, who is open minded and willing to seek knowlege from all area's with out a set of "rules" it is typically students who find and seek guru'ism. that is no longer me, and never will be again. The reason i am seeking such specific info, is that i know it will be easy to find NH, they 'market' themselves well and their 'students' word of mouth leaves a trail of bread crumbs a mile wide.

i also know that the french style in modern times is becoming somewhat of a lost art, given that the FEI is founded on german classical dressage, and that most dressage queens follow the most recent gold medal.....thus....classical in general, be it german or french was passed by for the shorter route to rome. given all the bad publicity of rolkur, i think classical may be able to have a comeback with the help of NH. so i certainly am not opposed to learning things from anywhere/one....I just dont want the same that i have been given. i have seen plenty of that the last 13ys. it is time for me to revisit my roots before i die.

i did watch a video on youtube about racinet, and i am on the fence. again this is why i want to learn as much as i can. regardless of french or german classical, the 'standard' is the same, the goal is the same, it is just the method in which they get there that is different....so i know if i see something that is sub-'standard', not meaning of lower quality mind you, meaning it is falling short of the written standard. say like, one standard is the the poll be high....so when the poll is low....that is below standard. or a loss of rhythm, or gait becoming impure. when i see such things, i care not who it is who is doing it, i take note and dig deeper to try to find why it is below standard. is it the method, or a misunderstanding of the method. if it is a fundamental "method" technique that seems to be causing it, well then i move on....from that technique.

so i looked up that book.....no kidding it is hard, acutally impossible to find. but they seem to have a copy in the library of congress

seems as quite a few libraries have copies...but none anywhere near me for sure.

Merle: thanks for the tip. i had a looksy and am going to try to get some funds together for the dvd. they do not have it on giddyup. which is of course where i am starting.

I have anja beran's dvd's in my que as well, who was a student of a students of nuno oliveria's. was he 'spanish' (dressage wise, not ethncity)

now i am not so familiar with the 'spanish' style, again.....while the names all ring a bell....the bell that tolled in my previous days was .....run....they aren't german.....so I really dont remember much of the little i did learn way back in the day. more research to be done there as well. i am pretty sure i would be interested in classical spanish DRESSAGE.....like i said, i have no interest how it applies to the cowboy at this time. sorry to be so 'narrow minded' again, but it is temporary and for research purposes only.

horseaholic

Tigerlily

DaisyMae

You might be interested in this:
http://www.enlightenedequitation.com/ee/boards/index.php

Heather Moffett is a well respected classical trainer, known for rattling the cages of big name 'modern' dressage people for their reliance on rollkur and other harsh practices.

Her background is in the French school, and if you join Enlightened Equitation you have access to parts of the forum that I think are invaluable, and sometimes quite controversial (in a good way)!

cokey

Have you looked into Academic Art of Riding and Straightness Training? It's classical dressage with classical groundwork as the foundation.

academicartofriding.com

Tigerlily

Daisy Mae, that is exectly the kind of stuff i was looking for. as for forums, all the good ones i found, no long accepted new memebers, and the ones i found that did.....didn't have very good 'educated' conversation going on....mostly little pee-ons like me. I took a quick peek at it this morning and I am going to join when i run out of 'free' threads to read. i guess you also get a free dvd with your paid membership, one that isn't for sale. she seems to also be well educated in both french and german styles, and that makes for AWESOME conversation. love it...thank you.

Cokey....thanks...i 'joined' and it told me already joined

so i guess i have been there before, but cant figure out how to actually download the ebook. guess i need to go back thru months of undeleted emails and see if there is an email from them. looks good from the peek i got from it.

thanks again.

cokey

If you type Straightness Training into youtube, there are loads of free videos and webinars too.

Tigerlily

sweet, thanks cokey...will do tonight for sure.

see, just need to know the 'key' words to find what you want now. there used to be a day when you could go to the search engine, type in "what ever' and get what you want. now with so many places......it is overwhelming what comes up...and most is nothing near what you want.

i found more by googling french jaw mobilization than by "french classical dressage"

just need to know the key words

horseaholic

Tigerlily

Tigerlily

I am very excited....my parents and sister got me for chirstmas

Paul Belasiks "Riding into the light"
Phillip Karls "the art of riding"
and something from Nuno Oliveria

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.......love going to the mail box to get presents

Chablis

Whatever you do, DON'T mention Parelli on the EE/Heather Moffat forum, they loathe it on there.

Tigerlily

thanks for the tip chablis...not sure i have made it there yet. been so many places i am starting to get myself confused