It's About The Horse

Clarissa

I would like to hear from people who use sunflower seed or oil as a feed for their horses. How much do you feed? What else do you give them in the same feed? What size horse & how much exercise do they get? All these things are very important when feeding sunflower seed or oil as it is nutrient dense & an unbalanced feed.

Has anyone stopped feeding it due to their horse getting laminitis?

2 months ago I was given 250kg of organic hulled black & grey combo sunflower seed in 250gr sealed bags meant for human consumption. It has been condemed due to some bags having an odd bit of contamination such as a little stone or husk.

I checked many online sources for nutritional info & quantities to feed to my horses & decided Sonny could have a full bag (3cups) per day & Cassie less due to being arab/lighter & Jude less due to already being a good doer. So I feed it soaked & Sonny gets 1 bag & Jude & Cassie share a bag mixed into plain soaked barley. Sonny gets a half dose of other high energy supplement feed too.

They have been eating it now 2 mths but I think there is a problem. Most internet advice said not to feed too much because of it causing inflamation in all joints & tissue including the hoof but the 250gram daily fell within all safe limits.

Jude has been intermittently sore (footed) lately which is unusual for her which set me thinking it might be the sunflower seed causing laminitis.

Now that they have been eating it for 8wks there is a definate change in hoof wall growth habit & temperature! The lower horn is shiny, cool & strong. Above it is rough, hot & I think flakey horn growing down.

I will post a short video tomorrow to show this growth.

It's the heat & the roughness that is concerning me. This new growth will be hitting the ground about when our next rainy season starts & if they have laminitis I will have 3 horses with compromised hooves.

The SFS is keeping the weight on them now which is why it was given to me. I can't afford enough horse feed this year to keep them ok. There is another pellet with another 250kg set aside for me too when this lot runs out so I have 2yrs worth of horsefeed if I want it.

But sometimes free is not always best!

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Clarissa · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject:

Here is the promised short video & a photo showing Sonny’s hoof about 2mths after I started feeding the sunflower seed.
All 4 feet have the same heat issues.

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Sunny Acres Ranch · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:23 am Post subject:

There are laminitis rings present and actually even more pronounced prior to feeding the sunflower seeds from the pictures. The new growth looks fine, but the toe looks pretty long to me which can also be a factor for setting up laminitis. I have fed BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds) for a healthy fat source and have never had any problems. I rarely feed more than 1 cup per day to most of mine if they are of good weight though. You are feeding the seeds in shell, right?
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thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

I have fed BOSS for years...no problems. I feed in the shell, also. They get what a bird would get...natural.
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Clarissa · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject:

SAR, in my original post I said I was feeding hulled seed. I explained what it was & why it was. BOSS is fed to horses primarily because the black shells are softer & easier for the digestive system to break down so the nutrients are released. There is no difference in the actual kernel of the seed.

Since you’re relatively new to this forum you are most likely not aware of the considerable threads on the farrier section about Sonny’s feet. If you look at the latest thread you will find photos taken in June where I describe the timelines. They are not laminitic rings, more being due to changes of trim style, feed & heavy wet weather periods.

I too, have read that 1cup per day is about right for a horse in reasonable condition, however I would not put mine in that range yet. Sonny is able to have a richer diet than my others which is why I have already cut them back to 1cup daily even though they could do with a little more condition for winter. Sonny doesn’t hold condition very well during winter or while in work, so he can have quite a rich diet so he is still getting 3 cups of kernels daily.

I have decided (for good or bad) to not worry so much about the heat I am feeling in their feet. I will wait another 2 mths at which time the new growth will be 2/3rds grown out & things will be showing themselves much more clearly.

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Most of L4 PNH achieved WooHoo!! happy10

Sunny Acres Ranch · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:12 pm Post subject:

Hi Clarissa,
I read what you wrote about the seeds, but I didn't understand. Over here in the USA, we can buy sunflower seeds in shell for human consumption and you just crack them and spit the shells and eat the seeds. The BOSS has a lot of the oil for fat in the shell, so that is why I feed those.

You're right, I'm new.

I went and read the most recent thread on Sonny's feet in the Farrier section. What a journey! With horses that I have tried to put weight on or keep weight up in the winter, I choose to up the intake of grass hay pellets or cubes (soaked before feeding, of course). It is a more natural food source for the horse, but I don't know if you can purchase those where you are?

I haven't come across the laminitis rings forming after a hoof trim change or wet weather. The times I have seen it happen is when the food is too rich, and with some horses when they have been vaccinated or chemically dewormed.
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learningthedance · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject:

Clarissa,

Not sure how expensive it is to get Whole Flax seed there, but here is really cheap for a sack from the feed mill. I use a coffee bean grinder and grind it up fresh each day. You can mix that with your BOSS and it will help bring your omeg 6 to 3 ration into a better ballance if your worried about inflammation.

BOSS contains only omeg 6, and zero omeg 3's (inflammatory). but still essential to their diet.

Flax seed contains 14% omega 6 and 58% omega 3 (anti-inflammatory)

I feed both to try to ballance things out a bit better. I read somewhere (I can find the link if you would like), that you shouldn't feed more then 8 oz a day of flax (8 oz pre-grinding, because it fluffs up so much) or it can have a laxative effect. It also has been written that ground flax can help with passing sand. More of a preventative measure so to say.

I got this link from the NRC Plus course.

http://www.balancedequine.com.au/nutrition/linseed.html

Anyways, just a thought. Oh, an if you decide to use it, use the Brown flax. Not the Golden, Genetically modified stuff.
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alexwein · Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject:

Anyone here using Cool Calories? Or Cocosoya? to provide essential fatty acids et al? Cool Calories 100 has been recommended and I've used it and she seems to do well on it. But I've been trying to find out more specifically how it is processed, since I don't like to give processed foods to my horse (or myself, for that matter!).
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bit · Member Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 4354 Location: Kansas

Clarrissa , you can probably find more info on the web. I'm trying to remember, but think they need to be fed with vitiment B? Can be a bad thing without it? You'll have to get on the web and really dig on this one. If you do feed boss, make sure they do not have bird cote. Many of the bird seed boss, do. Lots of pro and con on this one. I'd consult the best possible info source. I'm finding when it comes to my horses, less is more. I give them supplements from smart pac, specific to their needs, a tiny bit of alfalfa pellets, daily wormer, and omega hoof supplement.
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Kiparra · Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:09 am Post subject:

i feed Kip black sunflower seeds about 3 times a week in her feed which has 2 types of chaff, barley and millet.
I only give her about 1/2 cup each time i have heard that you shouldnt feed too muchmore than that per feed.
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thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

I do about a half a cup, too.
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Clarissa · Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject:

SAR the ring where I changed the trim was because I apparently took too much off & caused him to be a bit sore footed for 2days.

Regarding the flax seed…. Unlike USA, we here in Aust have to put up with what our feed barns want to get in for us. Some are more customer friendly than others. I have never seen flax seed available for horse feed although it must be available in bulk because it is used in commercial bread making etc. Also our general retail market is smaller so many things just aren’t available. It is hard enough to get BOSS most of the year because there just isn’t enough grown for feed (most grown for the human consumption oil industry) or it is so valuable it goes overseas. Probably the same applies to flax. I could feed the oil which is available in bulk but as we know it goes rancid so they put chemicals in it. Same applies to SF oil & other versions of omega balanced oils available here. They call it buffered or something similar.

Last year I bought some BOSS from the local pet shop (decanted into 3kg bags for wild bird feed) which was an expensive way to get it as there was none at feed barns. I fed it for 8wks to Sonny at 1cup daily & it made no difference whatever. That’s why I decided to feed 3cups daily to him this year & was prepared to cut it down when I saw a good response in his condition. So far he is barely holding condition so not sure it is the SFS or his new (very expensive super nutrition) feed. The trouble is when you mess around experimenting with their feed & they loose weight it costs twice as much to get it back onto them as it would’ve if you didn’t mess with their feed in the first place.

The only reason I am feeding this SFS is I got it free. Otherwise my horses would just have to scrounge the best they can through the paddock & loose some weight during winter like last year. Because my financial situation is still very iffy, I can only afford so much. I want to keep weight on him so I can ride him in a saddle that actually fits.

There is 16ac of native pasture here but it gets way too course in winter to be of much value & anyway our native pasture goes right off once mature or dried out. I used to own a big ride on mower to mow the pasture with, but I sold it to fund the rent 2.5 yrs ago.

Then last weekend I had a situation with the hay. Currently I am in negotiation with the farmer I recently bought a ton of hay from because it was supposed to be quality weed free fresh cut Rhodes hay & it turns out to be full of dead spear grass which I definitely don’t want here. But he is reluctant to take it back. So I also have that financial bother hanging over me because that was all their hay for the next 6mths for the dry season. So my horses are not getting hay yet & won’t if I can’t return it which means they will have less to eat over winter & dry season. I will have to try to sell it as mulch for half price I paid (if I can sell it that is). Then of course there is the wasted cost of fuel to drive to the farm. In the end it would have been cheaper to just buy expensive hay at the local rip-off feed barn!

Anyway I always knew the SFS wouldn’t make a balanced ration for them but I thought it might still be ok. I will wait a while & look into it again.

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Most of L4 PNH achieved WooHoo!! happy10

Kiparra · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:58 am Post subject:

oh the dramas of feeding horses!!

I usually just pump Kip with chaff and some barley with a few others bits and pieces.

I was able to sunflower seeds at the produce store in a 20kg bag. it isnt cheap. you cant it get in that form up where you are?

hope you can work it out with the farmer and get your money back.
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Chablis · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:01 am Post subject:

Kiparra · Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:02 am Post subject:

are black sunnies more of a southern plant?
i had a little trouble getting it cos the store was waiting for a delivery but i paid about the same amount as you.
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