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Need help re sunflower seed as horsefeed
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Chablis
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Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 1031


Location: Canberra, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copious_Amour wrote:
I stopped feeding BOSS to mine. Don't need no stinkin' heat in my boys' hooves. Beginning to think less is more. Much of the horses I have rescued over the years, they had only been fed hay and a salt block and water. Healthiest horses I know. As soon as you start adding stuff is when you start having problems. Though I would like to feed BOSS, I worry I wouldn't be able to correctly ration out the vegetable oil to make sure there wasn't an ill side effect caused by an imbalance in Omegas. It would probably be best to consult with a nutrition expert first.

Chablis: What have you found when feeding BOSS?



That's the thing, I have only seen positive changes since feeding BOSS ie
darker, brighter and softer coat/mane/tail, improved/stronger hooves.

Whenever I have stopped feeding it, is when I have noticed the above decline but, of course, all horses are individual and Sonny may have a food intolerance that doesn't allow him to have BOSS without side-affects.

Please note, I feed the sunnies whole and only the black variety although I've noticed some people feed the grey ones which I would never do.

Clarissa, I'm writing this pre-coffee so it might get confusing LOL but are you saing you introduce any new feeds over a 5 week period?

I really think your environment is causing a huge amount of your problems given you always seem to be wet, humid and hot there.  
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Clarissa
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Joined: 10 Feb 2009
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Location: Gympie, SE Qld, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read an article about Omega3 in the latest Kentucky Equine Research Nutritional & Health Quarterly ‘EquiNEWS'.

You may be able to find the article if you go to the website but incase it’s not there I’ll just give a brief account since it is 3 pages long.

Horses can make their own O3 because they eat plants containing ALA that grew in soil fertilized by rotted algae at some stage. The ALA is converted in the horse to EPA & DHA but it’s not a very efficient process. That would be because horses in the wild are not expected to be top notch athletes so they don’t need that much!

EPA & DHA originate from fish mostly whereas ALA comes from leafy green plants & seeds like flaxseed (linseed). Omega6 comes from seeds & grains like corn, sunflower & safflower. This means most domesticated horses get a diet way too high in O6 & the balance between O3 & O6 is way out of whack, particularly in horses that are performing at high levels & eating high grain diets.

The interesting thing about buffering the normal grain diet of performance horses with extra O3 is that it takes 28days for the O3 to filter through the body & begin to work. O3 significantly decreases the plasma concentrations of prostaglandin E2 which is the inflammatory mediator & also has same effect on white blood cells in joint fluid.

They stop at mentioning the exact ratio of supplementation but do say work is continuing at KER.

From what I see when reading the analysis panels of most produced ‘complete’ horses feeds is that the better ones do seem to be adding at least some O3 & O6 in what is thought to be a reasonable ratio here. Also there are a few ‘complete’ omega oil supplements on the market now. For example Dr Kohnke supplements now sells a 1 or 5gal drum of Omega3,6&9 combo oil (called Omega Gold I think) in what they say is the correct ratio. So if you fed mostly hay & some plain grain you could just add that but I do think it you fed a ‘complete’ feed you would have to be careful not to throw everything out of balance by adding yet another source of supplementation to the horse’s diet.

When I asked the Dr Kohnke nutritionist how much to feed, she said 15ml O3 oil like canola per 3cups whole Sunflower Seed or BOSS. The thing about canola is that it is a man made high yielding seed oil. I wonder if I should change to another source of O3 oil. Flax is out of the question since none for sale here is fresh enough to be free from rancidity & all is buffered with ‘stuff’ to stop that happening. Best to find another oil perhaps?
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learningthedance
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I buy whole brown flax seed from our feed store in 50 pound bags for about $30.00. I grind it fresh each day with a coffee bean grinder. The whole seed is the cheapest way to go, easiest to store and has the longest shelf life. A 50 pound bag will last a LONG time!! LOL You should not be feeding more then 8 oz at a time, so that's about 5 oz of whole seed before you grind it cause it fluffs up so much.

Great stuff!!
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Horsemama
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Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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Location: Central Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:14 pm    Post subject: sfs Reply with quote

Whenever you change a horse's diet it should be done slowly,  I didn't see you mention if you just started out feeding a whole bag or did you start with say 1/3 of a bag and over a week or two work your way up to more.  I was feeding 1-2 cups a day to a Boarder's Horses and they didn't seem to have any issues.  It was mixed in their regular horse feed.
 I also have heard latley discusion about corn, and corn oil making causing joint inflamation.  Sounds wierd to me, horses have always eaten corn in their diets.
 One thing you need to consider is the vitamin and mineral balance your horses are getting,  SFS alone are probably lacking some nutrients they need and may have too much of others if its all your feeding.  In the US you can buy mineral blocks and powders to be added to feed or put out free choice.  They are relatively cheep.  

Hope this helped
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Clarissa
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Location: Gympie, SE Qld, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: sfs Reply with quote

Horsemama wrote:
Whenever you change a horse's diet it should be done slowly,  I didn't see you mention if you just started out feeding a whole bag or did you start with say 1/3 of a bag and over a week or two work your way up to more.  I was feeding 1-2 cups a day to a Boarder's Horses and they didn't seem to have any issues.  It was mixed in their regular horse feed.


Yes I did take a few weeks to build them up onto it. That was earlier last year.


Quote:
  SFS alone are probably lacking some nutrients they need and may have too much of others if its all your feeding.  Hope this helped

 
Yes it's lacking Omega3 for one thing which is what I was concerned about. But I have solved the problem now by feeding the omega3 oil.

I think many people don't connect the SFS with hoof issues becaue it takes over 30days to work through the system after the initial feeding starts. If I hadn't had another reason to feel their hooves every morning & compare each horse I wouldn't have picked it up either. Also it takes a fair degree of finesse to feel the differnce between the new hotter growth & the older cooler growth. So the SFS took 30days to work through their system then the coronet grows at it's slow rate so it was 2mths before I felt the first glimmers of hot coronet band, then the hoof grew down at the normal slow rate so it was another month before I could be sure what I was feeling. Then over the following few months I could feel the differnece between the newer & older growth.

Then when I took them off the SFS the process was reversed at about the same rate. I could actually feel the newer growth was cooler than the older hoof. Now that they are back on it I waited to feel the heat again, waited another few weeks to be sure, started the omega3 oil, waited for that to work through the system (again another 30days) then to become apparent in the coronet band & then wait some more to feel the difference in the heat of it.

And yes the newer growth of the coronet is again cooler once the omega 3 worked through their system. I think omega6 has an effect on the size of the capilaries therefore more blood in that area of hoof.

The other thing to note is that the hoof that grows under sfs conditions is a little bigger/thicker than the other hoof. I can see that now in the map of their walls of all my horses being the same. The thicker hoof maybe comes about because the capilaries are bigger or something. Not sure about that. But it is that horn that grew during that time last year that became infected by the rot they all got in the heavy wet season & perhaps as it grows out which is about now, the new hoof will be better composed & stronger & more able to withstand the rigors of living in wet conditions.

Extrapolating that out I probably should not be feeding them sfs again at this time of year because the hoof that develops now will be what they will have to walk on next wet season. If it is compromised by feeding sfs, I might be setting myself up for another round of hoof problems next wet season. I stopped feeding it for about 6mths so that is the hoof they are walking on now which grew without sfs.

It would be interesting to see if horses fed sfs are prone to more hoof problems than those not fed it. Also to take into consideration is whether the horses get extra supplemetation with omega 3.

mmmm  
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