It's About The Horse

thebundychick · Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject:

I can't get over it Clarissa, its like the growth just stopped! And you're right - they only looked like they were out to 8 weeks AND still stuck fast.

I'm not getting too excited about the new growth yet - just gonna play it by ear and see what comes of it

Mandy'sMarty · Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject:

Horses generally grow concavity when the ground is soft. It improves their traction in the soft ground. You've just had the wettest winter season you can remember. Wet season makes soft ground.

Horses focus their energy on growing dense winter coats during the winter season when the daylight hours are the shortest. They begin focusing more energy on growing hooves instead of winter coats at the spring equinox when the spring days become equal to the winter days in length.

The last 14 weeks have been generally your winter season. The time when your horses are basically focusing their energy on growing winter coats instead of hooves.

Sounds like your horse is doing what comes naturally. That's a good thing.
_________________
Marty

We must be willing to let go of
The life that we planned
So as to have the life
That is waiting for us.

~Author Unknown

RickB. · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:40 pm Post subject:

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

I have to agree with Rick. I have very hard ground all summer...hard pack clay. Even most of the winter it's hard and frozen. Generally my horses (all except one) grow very good hoof with good, healthy soles. They are probably more healthy in the winter when they get some hydration, but all are pretty hard in the summer.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Mandy'sMarty · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject:

Perhaps I should have qualified my comment by limiting that as an observation to barefoot horses living in the rain forest of the southeastern United States. And perhaps I should have qualified the soft ground as being wet, which is the factor contributing to it being soft.

I have observed this phenomenon in my mare's feet for as long as she has been barefoot. And yes, Rick, I have observed the converse, particularly this summer. Generally more concavity during the wet months of winter and flatter soles during the summer with hard-packed ground. Actually, her soles appear flatter because of the additional sole material that grows to protect and cushion against the hard ground.

This is not just my opinion. I recently asked Todd Jaynes about this phenomenon as he was trimming Mandy. He agreed as he has seen this among the many horses he regularly trims. It was Todd who explained to me about the appearance of the flatter sole being attributed to the additional sole material responding to the harder ground. I assume that most, if not all, of his clients are barefoot. He has clients throughout the southeast US.

Todd has personal knowledge of many more horses than I do. He is AHA certified, Field Instructor & Public Education Clinician for the Equine Sciences Academy, Field Instructor for the United Kingdom Natural Hoof Care Practitioners, and recent presenter at The Functional Hoof Australian Conference in Melbourne last February.

Of course, Rick, as with any observations of horses, it is entirely possible that Todd and I have somehow been observing only horses that are the exception to the rule that "can be readily demonstrated...all other factors being equal". Or perhaps it just depends on the peculiar factors that are common to the barefoot horses that Todd trims.
_________________
Marty

We must be willing to let go of
The life that we planned
So as to have the life
That is waiting for us.

~Author Unknown

RickB. · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:42 am Post subject:

Apples and oranges. You said it yourself --

Mandy'sMarty · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:25 am Post subject:

Rick, You are correct. I re-read what I had written and it does appear to confuse rather than clarify what I had meant to say.

Simply stated, I have observed the horse's bare foot to appear more concave on wet, soft ground and much less concave on hard, dry ground. In my part of the world, that translates to a bare foot with good concavity in winter and a bare foot that appears almost flat in summer. (Other locales may have hard, frozen ground in winter and softer ground in summer.) Same horse, same pasture, but different seasons creating different footing. Hard ground, sole fills in. Soft ground, sole exfoliates. Both versions are healthy hooves responding to their environment.

I choose not to disturb the sole. But I am sure that, during my summer, there is retained sole filling in the concavity so that the soles appear flatter than the actual domed arch of the foot's structure.

I did not intend to suggest that in this particular phenomenon, the internal structure of the foot moved relative to the hoof capsule, and thus caused a change in the domed arch of the sole.

I really think that you and I are in agreement. Thanks for calling me on that one.
_________________
Marty

We must be willing to let go of
The life that we planned
So as to have the life
That is waiting for us.

~Author Unknown

thebundychick · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:14 am Post subject:

Interesting points on both sides.

I can't really say whether its the wet that has caused this - I mean - he's been barefoot for two years before this, and gone through a fair bit of wet weather in that time, and I've never really picked a difference in his soles - or a difference that I could attribute to the conditions.

But this difference is profound. Its been a year since I embarked on this experiment, and Sante's soles just look amazing.

would love some photography tips though, because I can't catch a break in getting decent photos!

thebundychick · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:10 am Post subject:

Front right foot

Front left foot

thebundychick · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:35 am Post subject:

Sante was reshod yesterday, its been about 8 weeks I think.

He was very long, very flared, and in dire need of a reshoe.

Can I just say:

I'll get more photo's towards the end of the week, i took a photo's today, but the shadows are all wrong, and basically - you can't see a thing.

Ha! Story of my life.

I'm telling myself over & over again, "Don't get your hopes up, play it cool"

But, I AM happy with how things are going.

Basically, we have 50/50 good growith / split growth. considering the rain we had previously, I am actually surprised that his feet have rebounded to the extent they have.

The MAJOR MAJOR thing that has changed? - I am controlling his feed.
Every single mouthful he gets.

I have changed his feed from a very sweet feed, which I reluctantly put him on when he was really sick and desperately needed to gain weight, and took him back to a "plain" feed, that is, nothing processed, I hand make each feed, he gets no sugar except for the lucern hay i throw him, and even then its fairly sun dried, so I'm not to concerned about it.

But basically, I think the feed is really helping the feet.

When i post photos, you will notice growth rings, and that pretty well explains it.

But, in a nutshell, we are heading in the right direction.

thebundychick · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:57 am Post subject:

Sorry the photos are late!

After I wrote my last post, we had 5 days solid downpour. I procrastinated with his feet, because i was afraid of what I might find.

But to be honest - I'm really thrilled. for what feels like the first time, they've held their own in terms of splits etc.

You can see the growth rings i was talking about before. No doubt from a diet insanely high in sugar, with added insane amounts of lucerne hay.

Looking back, I'd not be surprised if the amount of sugar contributed to the feet these last few months?

Anway.

Regardless of how you look at it - this is where we are - and in my eye - they've never looked so good.

Front Right:

Front left: (must have got a rock stuck in there somewhere hence the second crack - it shows no signs of infection, its clean, so can only assume the rock scenario. This is also the "sick" foot. you can clearly see the line across the hoof that marks when he was sick.

RickB. · Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:33 pm Post subject:

thebundychick · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:35 am Post subject:

The feet didn't have growth rings in September, but then again, the feet didn't have any growth in september. His feet pretty well stopped growing, due to the fact that

a/ it was Australia's winter at the time
b/ He had been critically ill
c/ he lost about 100kg

Since June, he has gone from being fed nothing but grass hay, agisted in a paddock with no pick - to being agisted in a paddock with what began as a fairly decent pick, with a daily hard feed extremely high in sugar, as well as lucern hay.

He then had a dramatic diet change *again* two months ago, where i took him off the sweet feed, onto a feed consisting of 50/50 chaff, steam rolled barley, garlic, salt, and soya bean meal. With a Single buiscut of lucern hay.

I'll say again - The growth rings are of absolutely no surprise to me.

Rick, you are looking for different "problems" with Sante's feet to me, its quite obvious.

I see the cracks in Sante's feed, as his achillies heel, if you will.

Its the big fat neon sign over my horses head that says " There is something really wrong with these feet", Even when he was 100% sound, and the cracks were still running up to the coronet - that was my indicator "You're still missing it". I have never *ever* in the 5 years that I have owned him, had the cracks looking like this.

Can you not understand that? You can sit there and criticize clinching methods, and denegrate my farrier from the safety of your computer - but you refuse to see that, We. are. actually. progressing. Very. Very. Slowly.

Is this not progress: .

Yes, I know, being a thoroughbred doesn't help. Being pigeon toed and knock kneed doesn't help. It *really* screws up with the unloading of the wall, and getting a comfortable action for him. But I've actually being going backwards a lot slower in the last 12 months.

If you had taken the time to read my thread on Sante's illness, you would know that he got a virus, which resulted in full body hives, which resulted in a severe case of vasculitis which manifested in his front left leg. He was swollen from the shoulder all the way down to the coronet, He was unable to walk without pain releif for a week, it took two weeks for the swelling to go down & for the scab to lift off the leg, (and even then only because i smothered it in honey every single day) and when it did, it peeled off like a banana, from the knee, all the way down to the coronet. He lost every single hair below the knee.

His leg, was "sick", and it resulted in that hoof growth "peeling back" from the foot. At the time, i was afraid that he was going to actually shed the wall right off.

As long as my horse isn't lame, and he is happy to continue bucking around the paddock (like he does on a daily basis), Then, I think I'll give my "inexperienced" farrier with 30 years skill & training, the benefit of the doubt

RickB. · Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject:

[quote="thebundychick:95750"
Since June, he has gone from being fed nothing but grass hay, agisted in a paddock with no pick - to being agisted in a paddock with what began as a fairly decent pick, with a daily hard feed extremely high in sugar, as well as lucern hay. [/quote]
Our ' language in common' divides us. I don't know what 'agisted' means.

Nor do I understand what 'a fairly decent pick' means.

thebundychick · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject:

Thankyou very much for not actually paying any attention to a SINGE THING I'VE WRITTEN.

What part of "I bought my horse in 2006" was unclear??? I have owned this horse for 5 years. Not 10. The dates on the camera are incorrect & up until today have never come into it.

agisted = kept on someone elses property

"fairly decent pick" - actually has grass that isn't very sweet to eat.

The dietary changes ARE evident in all four feet. The two photos of the fronts show growth rings, I haven't posted photos of the backs, because theres nothing wrong with them.