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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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 Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: Technical riding without contact |
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I have been re-reading Hempfhling's work on riding in collection without rein contact, and love what Karen Rohlf does. I used to ride western and would train to ride WP, reining, etc, collected, without contact This is always my goal, to be as natural in my horsemanship as possible, the ultimate of lightness.
I was wondering who else people study to get to this goal. I think it is the logical direction for any NH person to head. And there is a different, but similar path for English and western. English is pretty easy, following Natural Dressage (thank you Karen for setting this path). The Western path is not so clearly defined. I find most Reining horses get to the 'without reins' part, but think the WP world has a different definition of collection then we had back in the day when I rode it. I look at the winning horses, all heavy on the forehand, and just don't feel that is natural for the horse.
Any good examples of western collected reinless riding?
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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As I think about it, it is hard to beat that Cowboy Dressage video...now, WHO teaches that?
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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misstux
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 948
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Yes_But_Neigh
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Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 1362
Location: Marin, Ca US
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| I love the Cowboy Dressage guy-- plus- I could stare at his stallions forever. I'm interested in where this thread goes- not having ridden Bodie yet, I am acting like I am re-starting him all over and would love to be able to ride him on a no-contact rein-- great post Carol. |
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cokey
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Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Suffolk, UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:11 am Post subject: |
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The Cowboy Dressage guy, Eitan Beth-Halachmy had a heart attack at the opening of the WEG. I know it was pretty serious at the time, but haven't heard an update recently.
Has anyone heard if he's ok?
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www.suffolkhorsemanship.co.uk
I survived the externship, then realised that I didn't want it anymore.. |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cokey wrote: | The Cowboy Dressage guy, Eitan Beth-Halachmy had a heart attack at the opening of the WEG. I know it was pretty serious at the time, but haven't heard an update recently.
Has anyone heard if he's ok? |
I just went to his site, here is a statement from his hospital bed...pretty awesome guy. Nice attitude.
http://www.cowboydressage.com/video/control.htm
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9038
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hey..thanks for the links. I ordered his DVDs and manual (package deal special). I like this description of the manual:
| Quote: | This manual originally started, as a follow along that would compliment what I teach at my clinics, school and on my DVDs. It covers footfalls, cadence, anatomy and basic maneuvers and exercises for a supple, balanced and happy horses. I have added numerous detailed diagrams in the hope that this information will be made simpler for the reader. As with many of my projects it took on a life of it’s own and grew beyond it’s original intentions. In completion I feel it is now a work that stands on its own and can enrich any horseperson from any discipline or at any level. It contains some of my training basics and much of what I feel is important and valuable for those seeking more refinement and growth in their horsemanship.
This 42 page spiral bound manual compliments Eitan's clinics, school and both Poetry In Motion and Building the Foundation DVDs |
I like that he is unpretentious and straightforward. I'm looking forward to working on his material. It would be nice to attend one of his clinics...but that is a lot of money, even though it is 5 days.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Jack
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Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 269
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Technical riding without contact |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU wrote: | I have been re-reading Hempfhling's work on riding in collection without rein contact, and love what Karen Rohlf does. I used to ride western and would train to ride WP, reining, etc, collected, without contact This is always my goal, to be as natural in my horsemanship as possible, the ultimate of lightness.
I was wondering who else people study to get to this goal. I think it is the logical direction for any NH person to head. And there is a different, but similar path for English and western. English is pretty easy, following Natural Dressage (thank you Karen for setting this path). The Western path is not so clearly defined. I find most Reining horses get to the 'without reins' part, but think the WP world has a different definition of collection then we had back in the day when I rode it. I look at the winning horses, all heavy on the forehand, and just don't feel that is natural for the horse.
Any good examples of western collected reinless riding? |
Here are a couple of examples that might be relevent to this discussion. I feel that today's reining horses are a great example of what is possible when riding on a loose rein. However, I do think that there must be some type of "contact" when comunicating with a horse. Bill Dorrance made quite a point of the different types of pressure, ie direct or indirect. Contact my be physical or it may be mental but for success with horses it must be present.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrysNLbx08&feature=related
Western Pleasure is it's own world but I don't find the principles to be different from any other type of riding. Today bridleless riding is it's own event in the pleasure world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPdllcnn_Dk
Clinton Anderson riding bridless. I often hear Clinton being criticized for riding his horse behind the vertical, it's not evident here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxyQzRTghCM
Uri Peleg, this fellow amazes me. I often wonder what happened to his plans for riding bridless across the USA from north to south.
http://www.lighthandshorsemanship.com/home.htm
A link to lighthanshorsemanship, which contains info on some very good western riders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qtqtIYPpWs&feature=related
I've always enjoyed Eitan Beth-Halachmy and his morgan horses. I do question his use of two hands while riding a bridle horse. I found this vid very helpful in identifying the foot fall at different leads. As Eitan says, "I make it simple for you". I certainly hope his recovery is going well and hope to hear of him back in the saddle soon.
Jack |
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babs
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Eitan is out of the hospital and at last report was continuing his recuperation with friends in KY.
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Babs
Charter Member of Bad Apple Society - 2009
When in doubt, give, let them have it, surrender, make peace. When there's no doubt, give, let them have it, surrender, make peace. ~ The Universe |
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misstux
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 948
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Carol, please let us know what you think about his materials. |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9038
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for those links Jack. That is probably the best riding I've seen CA do.
I really liked the LHH site. It sounds like an event worth attending. I hope they are successful getting Cowboy Dressage going as a competitive event. I'd like to see what their rules will be.
I'll let you know what I think of his DVDs and book. Sadly, with the change in the weather, I'll have oodles of time to watch and read. 
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Niek
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Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Personally i dont think the western dressage is "dressage". Its good to look at , but is closer to "english park" than dressage imo.
There are many riders aiming for the draped rein goal..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiP7nsVHizw&feature=related
As an outline this to me is more "dressageh" Personally i love a draped rein.. But i do feel there is a difference between having a contact and having to much pressure... Having contact can look as great or better than draped reins ( PK and Odeo come to mind..)
Eitherway its an end result. Also KR is not shy of a decent contact.. She constantly gives her hand though, i guess it depends on the horse and rider combo wether or not thats prefferd.
Edit : ofcourse we can argue for ever about collection dressage vs western  .. Hard topic to find a midway in imo |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Those are really nice Niek...I looked at several of his other videos. Beautiful.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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cynthia peterson
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Joined: 14 Feb 2009
Posts: 1082
Location: United States
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting. IMO it shows a horse can be taught to do anything if the time and effort is put in to it.
Along the same lines, I am sure everybody has seen that Linda Parelli has a Special one time only ( that is personally taught by Linda) three day Clinic this month at the Parelli Center on "The Game Of Contact." Apparently she has wowed WAZ with a amazing way to teach student on getting contact. Not collection, but just the contact part. The rider positions are filled by hand picked student but auditing is still available for $450 for three days. Apparently there is something in the Master Gold Member DVD (a very short clip on Linda doing it with the cradle bit)
So, those of you out there that have been to Parelli Instructors, past and present, what would you say is the official idea of contact, and do you think it has changed? Have you used those methods and has it worked for you? Yes, Linda and Pat are English and Western riders, but do you see this as a Linda Parelli Program separate from a Pat Parelli Program, or just a improvement of Parelli? And if there is "new" information coming up, will it always just be left to Gold members? |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9038
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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That's quite a collection of questions there Cynthia? LOL
Is there a video of Linda's new Contact course? It is hard to answer your questions without seeing it to decide what is different or the same about it.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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