It's About The Horse

appellativo

Do we have a thread of what a horse working in a proper frame looks like? I am trying to get a good eye so whoever wants to contribute please do! I will start. Also with your pic, if you feel qualified, can you say why you think that it looks correct? This is Uta Graf with Le Noir.

The distance of stride of front legs is similar to the back legs. The reins are not overly tight as far as I can tell, and the head hangs nicely vertical. It appears as though the base of the neck is up, and the horse is using his hindquarters. In the pic it appears as though his tail is relaxed.

Critiques of my assessment are welcome!
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Blue Flame · Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 6:29 am Post subject:

I would say that the head is behind the vertical.

Base of the neck can be extremely hard to judge in some breeds with a tendency to have such muscled necks.

Similarly difficult to judge with cresty horses is whether poll is highest point or if broken at the third vertebrae.

Also something is off comparing the angle of the front forearm that is in the air with the hind cannon (the ones in the air) - I think ideally that they are supposed to stay parallel.

If the horse has even and synchronised footfalls, it begs the question . . . why the need for bellboots on the front? This suggests to me that the person who tacks the horse up is concerned about over-reach or inteference wounds. It is hard to tell from just a still pic, but it looks to me as though the hind foot might leave the ground before the front foot - a late breakover - as the hind foot looks less loaded judging by the angle of the pastern (although the bell boot obscures the front pastern). Such a situation would indeed make the horse prone to over-reach or interference.

appellativo · Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:43 pm Post subject:

See I knew you'd see somethings I didn't see! This is supposed to be a photo of the horse in passage. I don't know if that makes a difference. Now I do see the things you pointed out.

You got any really good pics to share?

Oh here's some more. This one of Le Noir looks a little better. And what about the red horse?

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Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

Would like to see both reaching forward out of their shouldersmore
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Blue Flame · Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:03 am Post subject:

It would be nice if you could say what movement is being performed in each pic as it does affect how things will look.

appellativo · Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:39 am Post subject:

the photos were not labeled, but pic 2 looks like piaffe and the third one with the 'red' horse looks like working trot but I'm not 100%.
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Blue Flame · Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:47 am Post subject:

Again with the over-reach boots - hmmmnnn . . . . . could this indicate a footfall timing issue or maybe a "cramming the horse together" issue?

The piaffe - either the horse isn't there yet strength-wise in the HQ, or there is a balnce issue with still too much weight over the forehand. I like to picture the piaffe as being on the verge of levade. Could that horse stand on his HQ from that balance? When the base narrows, shouldn't the hind feet come more forward rather than the front feet moving backwards?

The build of the red horse makes the neck a bit more revealing. Does that neck look telescoped/lifted at the base? How about the look of the poll versus the 3rd vertebrae? Is the overall picture one of relaxation or of tension?

Also interesting is to study the throat latch area. The two things that open or close this area are how far the nose is tucked and whether the neck is telescoped.

It would be interesting to see some video - quite often see a horse with one foot on the ground at the trot when studying frame by frame. That can reveal where the weight really is.

appellativo · Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:44 pm Post subject:

OK! So, someone find me some GOOD pictures! :D Because I clearly have much work to do with my eyeballs LOL
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misstux · Member Joined: 27 Feb 2009 Posts: 948

[quote="Blue Flame:76049"]Again with the over-reach boots - hmmmnnn . . . . . could this indicate a footfall timing issue or maybe a "cramming the horse together" issue?quote]

It probably indicates that they boot just in case. That is the way with most of the dressage people I know and there are a lot at the barn where Strider lives.

Jack · Member Joined: 22 Oct 2009 Posts: 269

I don't know if it's proper form, but this short vid that Rik shared with me has always been one I enjoy watching. Seem's to me that the rider is offering a nice softness in the reins and the horses face is mostly in front of the vertical. Balanced on all four and nicely rounded IMO. I really like it but don't know if it's proper or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W1xRjUHzGw

Jack

Clarissa · Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject:

Have a look at anything from Nuno Oliveira.
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?...615322255860&q=nuno+oliveira#
OR Sue Oliveira.
http://sueoliveira.blogspot.com/
Sue’s blog is in Belgium or French(I think!) but I don’t have trouble navigating around it. Go to the Album photos http://sueoliveira.blogspot.com/2...photos-salon-du-cheval-paris.html & just keep clicking the top photo link on the right & 100’s of photos will scroll through. Most are Sue’s students in various stages of education but you will see lots of good stuff.

The final post in that blog is about Sue’s funeral 16Sep2007 with a photo at the cemetery.

OR Philippe Karl. In this short video you get a really great still at the beginning as the video loads.
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?...iveira#docid=-3630150063986391480
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Rik(The Sequel) · Member Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 102

You will need to be more specific about what you want to see, it will look different dependant on the confirmation of the horse and the effect the rider is looking for, as they dictate the frame (If you want to call it that) and different people/disciplines have different opinions on what is correct or required.

If you are taking about FEI Dressage horses, none of the horses so far are examples of what a world class FEI Dressage horse looks like.

(Silver medallist at the recent WEG)

And top eventing horse in the Dressage phase.

As you can see two world class horses performing Dressage but look very different.

If you want Classical you have more difficulty as the horses have changed physically and mentally through the centuries so we can only really look at horses since the invention of photography.

It all depends on what discipline you’re interested in and the level within that discipline.

AlythLong · Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:36 am Post subject:

I appreciate your posts Rik - love the photos of the different kinds of top dressage -= but your flashing pic at the bottom drives me nuts!!! Perhaps my eyes aren't as good as they were 60 + years ago!!! I simply cannot read your posts unless the picture is out of sight!! Happy Christmas. Alyth

Rik(The Sequel) · Member Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Posts: 102

Better?

Merry Christmas

Niek · Member Joined: 01 Feb 2009 Posts: 1065

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