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It's About The Horse
The Free Forum for those Doing Parelli - and a whole lot More! "Anything forced and misunderstood can never be beautiful." Xenophon (430-355 B.C.),
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coveredbridgefarm
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Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 1626
Location: Missouri
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 Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| PasoBaby_CarolU wrote: | Larry, I'm not sure. I'm thinking that if the horse is bracing in this excise, they are bracing against something, which is us. By us relaxing and releasing there is nothing to brace against, so the horse relaxes and lowers his head. Once the horse finds out that 'relax' the neck is what we want - and our body language is correctly asking for relaxing here, then it becomes easy.
Or no....LOL |
Right. Relaxing is effectively what happens, I think. It's the pretend part that intrigues me. Carolyn didn't say to relax, she said to pretend that the horse is dropping its head. Maybe it's an insignificant point. Maybe it's significant. I was just wondering how others viewed it.
Larry |
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PasoBaby_CarolU
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Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 9038
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'm thinking out loud here. For me, thinking relax and actually relaxing are two different things. I've been doing hpynotherapy just to learn to relax - and realizing I haven't thoroughly relaxed in my memory. Which is why my muscles are talking to me right now. Like reminding people to breathe, when we really mean take a deep, relaxing breath and relax their whole body. I do this with horses, but if you think I could take a deep belly breath during exercise or stretching, you were nuts.
There also is the idea of mirroring. You know when we're asking for a trot or a canter and start trotting or cantering in our body, the horse quickly follows our lead and body with their own actions. Same with riding to a walk and then stop in downward transitions. It really is your horse following your body.
So now....two different ideas of how this works. Hmmmmmmmmm, licking and chewing here.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos
"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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imagele
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| coveredbridgefarm wrote: | Imagele wrote:
| Quote: | | It tends to work a bit like that. I find it is the complete opposite of hold like a fence post |
I would definitely agree that those are polar opposites. I find it interesting and intriguing that Carolyn is making "pretend" an integral part of UE#1 or at least an option if bracing is encountererd. I am trying to recall if I have ever heard of another clinician advocating that option as explicity as she has done. Perhaps my recall is less than perfect this morning but I can't think of anyone at this moment. |
Carolyn might be terming it as pretend but it is also a form of
"go with your horse until he can go with you, then you can go together".
Other clnicians have advocated that approach. They have perhaps just not taught it in such an obvious way.
| coveredbridgefarm wrote: | | This is fairly direct mind to mind communication, though 2 physical bodies, of course, initiated by the human's conscious intent/attempt to pretend. |
When a horse braces you have a few choices - you can go with the horse and relax yourself into doing that then ask again a little time later, you can decide that you can persuade the horse in some way and do that, you can get very braced yourself and insist the horse do it NOW or you can give up and walk away. I am sure there are other options as well.
| coveredbridgefarm wrote: | Am I making too much of this? It's not a new idea but it is being presented as a legitimate option for dealing with bracing and oppostion reflex. It seems like a fairly significant development in the course. I'm not making a judgement, merely an observation. And I could be guilty of blowing it out of perspective.
Larry |
No I dont think you are making too much of it. If it is important to you it is important to you. I found it quite a different thing to do initially, and I had already thought I was quite practiced at going with a horse. I was able to do that quite well physically sometimes, but mentally and emotionally I was often still braced against the horse. This exercise of Carolyns (during the UE course last year) brought that awareness into my conscious mind.
It was in the course last year, at about the same stage. I think there was a whole blog post talking about it. Have you gone back and read those posts ? |
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Hertha
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Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 2345
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Am I making too much of this? It's not a new idea but it is being presented as a legitimate option for dealing with bracing and oppostion reflex. It seems like a fairly significant development in the course. I'm not making a judgement, merely an observation. And I could be guilty of blowing it out of perspective.
Larry |
Larry, I don't think you are blowing it out of perspective. I think it is a wonderfully liberating idea.
It certainly liberated me from automatically using Parelli phases. It taught me to relax and slow down and leave more pauses between the notes and to laugh a lot more.
Boots loves it when I giggle and laugh. If we can pretend the horse did what we wanted, there is no reason for us to tense up or brace, as we do naturally (even if we don't realise it) when the horse doesn't do what we are asking.
That change in dynamics alone changes the whole relationship.
Now that I am aware of it, I can see how I and other people do the bracing/tension thing totally without being aware of it.
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Author of
*Book: N H STUDY GUIDE
*DVDs: Clicker Training Your Horse; Learning Universal Horse Language; 29 Ways to Ask Your Horse to Back Up; Building Your Horse's Hind End; Walking with Horses; Trailer Loading with Positive Reinforcement |
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coveredbridgefarm
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Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 1626
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Imagele wrote:
| Quote: | | It was in the course last year, at about the same stage. I think there was a whole blog post talking about it. Have you gone back and read those posts ? |
I didn't know you could read posts from that far back. Maybe I'll check that out when I get some time.
Hertha wrote:
| Quote: | It certainly liberated me from automatically using Parelli phases. It taught me to relax and slow down and leave more pauses between the notes and to laugh a lot more.
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Speaking of Parelli, this reminds me of 'rubbing the horse to a standstill' after porcupining. I didn't realize until Dave Ellis told me, that that was for the human to relax and only indirectly for the horse. Would you say this is the same, or similar?
I thought it was interesting that Pat let us think that it was for the horse. Carolyn seems to be sort of doing the same thing, if the purpose of 'pretending' is to make the human relax.
Larry |
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bit
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Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 4355
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Some videos from Stina, on the UE's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN...amp;feature=player_embedded#at=12
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"It was once said I should clear my head for one cannot ride a Thoroughbred. Hot they are. And too fast they be. Forever on the fly. But I stayed the course and have no remorse. I love my off the track racehorse!" |
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Hertha
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Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 2345
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: |
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I really enjoy Stina's videos. Would be nice to get CR's comments.
It is much easier to get the 'floating hold' if you put toggles on the side rings of the halter.
I just use little lengths of electric fence tape, just long enough to be able to hold them with my thumb and fore-finger. The tape is quite stiff so it sticks out and is easy to pick up.
When I started to ask Boots to flex her poll vertebrae, I had to put her butt against a solid barrier because she understood the lightest pressure on her nose to mean 'back up please'.
Once I started clicking for the poll flexion, she caught on real quick. 
_________________
Author of
*Book: N H STUDY GUIDE
*DVDs: Clicker Training Your Horse; Learning Universal Horse Language; 29 Ways to Ask Your Horse to Back Up; Building Your Horse's Hind End; Walking with Horses; Trailer Loading with Positive Reinforcement |
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jackspark
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Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 4477
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| Hertha wrote: | I really enjoy Stina's videos. Would be nice to get CR's comments.
It is much easier to get the 'floating hold' if you put toggles on the side rings of the halter.
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Used a sennit of square knots for my toggles, ate up with knots 
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Flying Monkey Trainer
A journey of a thousand miles must
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