It's About The Horse

Jewil · Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:14 pm Post subject: Opinions Needed

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Jessica

Bucky: 16 year old Buckskin QH
Fancy: 20 year old Buckskin QH

Member of The Bad Apple Society

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

I am not sure, but it seems from what you are describing he might be trimming them way short to make them move off those ouchy hooves? It doesn't sound good, but I am no expert.
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Blue Flame · Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions Needed

learningthedance · Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions Needed

I was thinking the same thing regarding the "Strasser trimmer", until I read that the horse is shod. I am thinking that the farrier is trying to weaken the heals in an effort to get them to widen? Although, putting a shoe on doesn't make any logical sense.

appellativo · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:53 am Post subject:

"So I work for my neighbor in the evenings to help out clean stalls, feed etc. I was there the other day when their farrier came out and I have always noticed the horses hoofs (most of them) don’t look right to me. So I finally got to see the farrier in action. He shaved and trimmed off so much sole to where it was pink. He said on this particular hoof she has a slightly detached coffin bone. "

This always gets me. Call me an anal annie, but the coffin bone is just where it should be. It's possible that laminar detachment has happened, (inner laminae detached from outer laminae) but the coffin bone hasn't moved...it's the hoof capsule that's rotated/detached.

"And this poor old mare has really bad contracted heels anyway and so he trims them away from the frog to help them move out. Is this effective?"

I dunno...is it working? How long has it been being done, and has there been any improvement?

"She has cracks all the way up from this. She is also shod on the fronts only." (Thank goodness from the sounds of it)

"Now this is a retired eventing mare that the owner has had since she was born. She is a BIG mare and her hoofs are a little smaller than my fist."

This can be due to genetics but also poor hoof care. I would encourage the owner to take regular pictures or hoof molds to see progress. Is she retired because of lameness?

"She can not be comfortable."

Is she acting lame? As screwy as some hoof care seems, if it's not broke, don't fix it....

"I really want to maybe mention he should get a second opinion. Maybe I should mention to the barn owner before saying anything to the owner? But regardless I wanted to get other opinions first."

If the horse is lame, and the same farrier has been working on the feet for more than, say, a year and a half, and a goodly amount of improvement has not been seen, I'd mention to the owner your observations and carefully feel the owner out to see if he/she may be receptive to some encouragement to get a second opinion. It helps if you have another qualified professional in mind, one that has a proven track record of making improvements on pathological feet. I'd probably ask the barn owner before talking to her boarders about their feet. You don't want to ruin a good thing by stepping on any toes.

It's rough ain't it.
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appellativo · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:58 am Post subject:

jessica are you getting your post reply notifications?! I'm not getting mine and its driving me nuts.
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Clarissa · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:12 am Post subject:

This is the very trim that has totally disrupted a friendship I had with a lady nearby.

She is ravaging her little mare’s feet to the point the mare is so sore she HAS to keep moving to relive the pain! When ridden by my friend (too big for the pony) the pony has this rapid choppy shuffling gait that drives me mad with anguish) but the owner will not listen to my thoughts on the matter. cwm10

Because of this trim the heels are forced to contract to help provide something for the mare to stand on. The situation is compounded because the trimmer then cuts that extra horn away perpetuating the cycle of gradual reduction in size of hoof.

My ‘friend’ wants me to do the same trim on my horses!!! Not on your life!! hmph

I might be struggling to get mine good but I sure as hell know a bad trim style when I see one. I’m not going back to Strasser for any amount of money. angry6

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Clarissa · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:12 am Post subject:

JackPNH · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:56 am Post subject:

Any farrier or trimmer that is taking that much sole out is in the dark ages, on very few ocassions there may be a reason to remove more sole than normal, but not continually. Trimming and shoeing has progressed over the years, some practisioners have progressed, unfortunately many have not.

regards
Steve
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Jewil · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject:

I am going to try and get all answers in one post

I have no idea what method he uses, I did ask lots of questions although probably not the right ones.

Her hoofs seem to be getting smaller and smaller and the right front (with coffin bone detachment) is looking like its straight up and down. Like he is making it do that.

It makes me so sad when I pull her out of the pasture. She has really bad arthritis anyway so she is lame from that but the poor old mare can not hardly walk. They look deformed.

I think they are the type that believe everything the farrier says. They really aren't even there when he is. They just write the check. I was going to talk to my farrier about it and see what he says and maybe he might have some suggestions on how to fix it. Then (depending on what he says and his knowledge) I will recommend him. I just don't want to step on any toes etc.
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Jessica

Bucky: 16 year old Buckskin QH
Fancy: 20 year old Buckskin QH

Member of The Bad Apple Society

learningthedance · Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a "stand em up" kind of farrier. Definitely outdated and maybe a fresh perspective is exactly what the owners (and the horse) need.

I think talking with your own farrier is a great idea and the right place to start. Pictures (if you can get them without getting into trouble, or have permission would be even better) would probably be very helpful for him to see.

I hope the owners are open minded and caring enough to listen to your concerns and may even consider talking with your farrier.

If the horse is lame, they might just welcome the second opinion.
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PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

Hmmm, I don't think I'd give an opinion without pictures. What appears small to one person might be just right for that horse. I'm not sure how a slightly detached coffin bone would be determined without x-rays. Standing her up may be another way of saying that she has lamintis and needs the pressure off her toes, and he may be corrective shoeing this hoof, and shoeing the other side to keep her shoulders even. I'm not saying any of this is right - or wrong. I just think I can't offer an opinion without pictures of the hooves and x-rays if they are available. All that, and I'm not a farrier, but I do have a lot of experience now with laminitis and some experience with the many trimming, casting, padding, and shoeing options that people use to fix it.

If he is working closely with the attending veterinarian I'd be more inclined to believe that he's doing what is ordered for that horse.
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Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

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PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

This is an interesting site on different types of laminitis and its treatments. I was kind of surprised by Figure 5. This is the South Valley Equine Hospital, where I take my horses for things more serious then routine care. They are less then a mile from the Equestrian center and race track.

http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/...Back=False&idContentType=1271
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

appellativo · Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject:

best thing you can do, Jessica, is try to educate the owner. Then she will start asking the questions and be better able to see herself that something is possibly not right. Tell her about giddyupflix.com and the great Under the Horse videos, or just get her email, and email her Pete's site. Pete might not be the be all and end all on barefoot or otherwise hoof care, but IMO he's got a lot of the anatomy and general principles covered and can really get a person who is clueless on hoof care started in the right direction.
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"The world doesn't need Fight Club; it needs ponies." --Brannon Sherry

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GPH · Member Joined: 01 Jun 2011 Posts: 16 Location: NC

Have to say everything you described about the trim is way wrong! If I trimmed people's horses this way, I'd be fired!