It's About The Horse

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

I have thought about this for a long time. I saw some stocks last year in Montana for draft horses to help the farrier and vet, as needed.

Belle and Bob are great on the hooves finally after a long time and patience. But, by the time you get to the last hooves, they start the jerk game.

My farrier is a small, thin man and he is kind. I do not want to lose him.

Next is Dolly. She lunges forward to throw both front hooves the entire time and we are a year together in October, I believe.

She is fine with both rear hooves.

So I have actually ordered a pair of stocks, because I see my TWHs give their hooves without complication. But, when a 2000# plus draft horse pulls your arms and back as I see it, there has to be a better way.

So I talked with a guy who is Amish that was doing a harnessing clinic using some PNH methods or NH methods and we discussed stocks. He said, he always used stocks with all his draft horses because they do weigh so much and it does save your back, etc.

I decided it was time to give it a try. I let you know how it goes and do feel free to give me advice if you have ever used them or seen them used.

I just know the draft horse requires a little help for my farrier and maybe if I ever had a hoof that I needed to soak or pack, it might be my best investment.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

CoolsLadyInRed · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:10 pm Post subject:

No foot wrestling a draft horse for sure! My farrier would be gone if he had to handle a non compliant big horse.

The last time he was here Lady was a bit sassy and the farrier was crabby to begin with. I was glad when the trim was over. Stocks sound like a good idea. How does that help with keeping them from pulling their feet away?
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beth

Clarissa · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject:

So long as the horse was introduced to the stocks as being a good helpful thing for the horse I see no problem. If the horse can see that the stocks will help it hold it’s leg up better then there shouldn’t be any problem. But I have seen drafts go berserk in them & do themselves a deal of injury. Once they are cast in the race there is little you can do with such a large animal.

During my jillaroo years I worked on a cattle & sheep station that used to be run using draft horses for plowing & harvesting lucerne paddocks, pulling wool wagons & timber jinkers & delving bore drains. There were several strings of horses employed there because it was a big property. Each string had it’s own handlers with some strings being 40 strong. It employed blacksmiths/farriers, saddler & a harness maker, apart from the usual windmill mechanics, engineers, bore pullers, & all the other various tradesmen & ancillery staff. It was a big place that employed over 100 people between the outside & household staff.

There were several sets of horse yards, some with stables or feed/day/night/tacking pens & others for training or breaking. Beside the training yards was the blacksmiths shop & a set of 10 shoeing stocks all made as all stock yards were in the 18&1900’s of bush timber posts & round or split rails. The stocks was a set of narrow horse sized pens as wide as a horse float stall, built of bush timber posts & removable round rails & split rails with a special rail at my hip height that had a series of holes all along the top of it.

Apparently the horse was penned & tied, then the leg to be worked on was lifted & hooked behind the peg which fitted in a hole so the horse could stand comfortably but not pull it’s leg away. The hoof pointed outwards so the smithy could work on it. The smithy could then remove the other rails on that side to work on that hoof to shoe or trim. The blacksmith would have fitted handmade hot shoes. I was always intrigued by why there were 10 stalls!! Would that have meant there must have been 10 blacksmiths at some time? Perhaps 1 smithy & several apprentices? But obviously it was designed to have 10 horses in at a time. Yes it was a big property that used a lot of horse power, literally.

I could have easily spent the rest of my life on that cattle station. There were so many sheds & huts, yards & old buildings with all manner of old stuff in them, mostly going to waste or rotting. Many complete harnesses hung rotting in one bower hut. I counted almost 50 draft bridles hanging on a wall in another stable, the blacksmiths tools just laying there beside the furness after all those years going rusty. Handmade barbed wire rolls, handmade bits, handmade tools of all descriptions, old delving plows, handmade scarifiers, scufflers, plows discs, tines, swingle bars, haimes, old buggies, wagons, everything just going to waste. Everything I ever wanted in life was there but it didn’t belong to me & the owners just treated it as junk & often used to have huge bonfires to burn it all. There were massive wool wagons & timber jinkers laying all over the property.

Enough to make a person cry back then & still.

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Most of L4 PNH achieved WooHoo!! happy10

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

I hear ya! I touch this very gently because I have though long a hard and talked with quite a few people. I do not want to do the force and drug, etc. I do want to keep my farrier and I want my horses to get a good trim.

I hope to gradually introduce them to the stocks as a trailer experience of back and forth and close and open . Stay and be brushed and let out.

Later, stay be brushed, pick up one hoof, go out. If it gets to be any tenseness, I want to be able to get them out asap, in a calm manner.

I did have a gentleman tell me he did have a horse flip on him in stocks and while the horse was okay, he had to take the stocks apart...but, he said that he had forced the horse in the situation.

That I do not want to do. I know the hooves are my responsibility. Honestly, my weight, they laugh at , basically.

Again, open for advice as I know the farrier can get it done, but how long does he want to stay.

He says, "You used to be my favorite client, until..."

So we are talking Belles that before me never got done 4, 6 and 13 years old. We've come a long way, but...I don't want to lose the farrier and I want the Belles to be trimmed.

My wash rack already has rails where we can do forward stop and backward out to play being in stocks. The rails were designed for the vet and farrier in mined.

The difference is the stocks support the hoof some the weight is not on the farrier's back. And, the horse learns to stand for the farrier and maybe is eventually not needed?

But, I have heard that there is a draft horse stand that farrier's use also.

Anyone seen one of those?
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

No time wasting. I sent the check and the Amish gentleman called and says on the truck and here in about two days!

Anyways, I have been asking questions....mine are wooden stocks made of white oak. He suggest I put them between one of my wash rack rails and told me that the escape is on both the front and back.

But, I have another concrete pad that is alone without rails that might be even better. It would be a open pad for the stocks and I could put a shelter over it for bad weather or the sun. There is a hose nearby for cleaning the stocks off.

I can put a water seal on the wood. I am excited and a bit nervous. I think I will introduce it to all my horses, so not to scare them.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

sebocat · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:26 am Post subject:

Stocks certainly have their place, but they can be damned dangerous if you aren't very careful.

I was helping a farrier shoe a Perch gelding that usually wasn't overly difficult, but they used the stocks anyway. He got to feeling claustrophobic, and freaked out in the stock. He went up and over backwards and we had to drug him and use a tractor to get him out. He was pretty beat up.

I'll never use stocks for foot work again.

Bob was bad about his feet at first. Patience and persistence. I did TONS of friendly with ropes, carrot stick, etc. It helped a lot. I also played a game in a round pen at liberty later. I'd pick up a foot, if he was good, he could stay and rest. If he took his foot away, He worked. I'd run him and he'd do lots of direction changes. He only rested when his foot was in my hand. It worked awesome.

I did his feet myself, I used a regular hood stand, and did fine. You might also try clicker training to really reinforce good behavior with the feet.
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~~Suz

I miss you Bob

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

Thanks, Suz. I really am going to doing a lot of tight quarters can you stand with my wash rack rails and block the front and back seeing if when the others horses are near if will be a safer feeling. I know when I have them trimmed I do keep the pasture buds around for calmness.

I know they are coming and have to be assembled, but it is going to be a slow go at this process if it happens at all.

This is the kind of thing I need to hear about and prepare myself for or to accept it might not be the thing.

I do want to do a search on the huge farrier stand for the draft horse.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

sebocat · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:48 am Post subject:

The stand made a HUGE difference.
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~~Suz

I miss you Bob

CoolsLadyInRed · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:21 am Post subject:

. I also played a game in a round pen at liberty later. I'd pick up a foot, if he was good, he could stay and rest. If he took his foot away, He worked. I'd run him and he'd do lots of direction changes. He only rested when his foot was in my hand. It worked awesome.

This is what I saw in a very difficult horse that pawed and struck out in a Chris Cox video. If he didn't want to stand still CC moved him in the round pen or at the end of a lead. He stood eventually and just needed to be shown how to stand nicely.

The release was the answer.
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beth

Clarissa · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject:

Thele are the stocks steel panel type? The old ones I have seen were all wooden so there was no rattling like with steel panels & the rail with the holes for the pegs was lined with sheep skin wool side up.

All that rattling seems to set horses off no end which gets louder the more they get tense.

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http://clissats-own-page.blogspot.com/
Most of L4 PNH achieved WooHoo!! happy10

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

I wanted only wooden stocks.

Beth,
Thanks, I have to check that video out by Chris Cox.
I fault myself as I got horses trained to drive and wanted to keep them driving steady and slow.

But, now, it is hot and I can do something lessons on working with the hooves as you suggest.

I read an article about how in the past, one would bring the horses in from the farm work and that they were tired and willing to be handled and then, go to pasture, eat and drink water.

Here we have pasture pretties...that get a lot of time off because I am gardening, cleaning house, etc.

But, now that it is too hot to drive them, it is a good time for me to focus on the hooves.

The stocks are coming. I am going to secure them to the wash rack rail that is embedded in concrete on both sides near huge posts in the concrete and ground.

I plan to water seal them and have a covering to protect from weather and also, shelter for the farrier.

Once, I can get them comfortable with me around the hooves and me comfortable as well, I want to try to not use the stocks unless an emergency comes up where a hoof or two needs soaking,etc.

I truly appreciate the advice and sharing of thoughts on this matter.

i just got a call to discuss delivery. So...
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

Goodness - do you not just teach them to hold their feet up like we do in the UK???

My farrier friiend shoes mainly drafts, and has never used such a thing! lol!
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thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

Sorry, but I got them as already older and not taught...so I am doing back strokes to help the horses and the farrier. No, the previous owners did not do such. I do that with my young ones.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18

thelmanelle · Member Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Posts: 3253

Asking for advice here as help on the stocks and the stand to help both horses and farrier.

Thank you.
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A Good Apple Pie. II Corinthians 4:16-18