It's About The Horse

becdubie · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject:

That's definately not Linda in the photo. The photos were trying to demonstrate something in an exaggerated form, I believe. I guess if you really want to know about her game of contact you should attend the course instead of make assumptions.

I'm no expert in contact or equitation, but like Clarissa points out....I have NEVER seen Linda ride sitting back like that nor have I heard her instruct anyone to do so.
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PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

cynthia peterson · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:01 pm Post subject:

I, for one, thank "Balance" for coming on the forum. And welcome. I like her, or his comments.

PasoCarol, the subject of Linda's contact game came up again b/c Linda is doing another set of them. She is also going on a world tour with her course. Love it or hate it, it is part of what Parelli is having as the "new and improved" methods. Linda states she has found something even her master teacher couldn't teach. Hard for me...but not gonna' comment on what I think of that...so that is really BIG to Linda's students, some of which are posting here.

I ask you, why, would the rider be sitting on her butt and not her seatbones? Why would a Parelli student, and I would assume one that Linda is teaching isn't some newcomer that came off the bench b/c Linda only teachs her best in the Contact courses? Could it possibly have something to do with something Linda taught before her great transformation from her "years of lessons with WAZ?" Why would Linda even have to have WAZ give her lessons? What was missing? How well was Remmer coming along? Just saying... think through this and come up with your own conclusions...

So, welcome to Balance. And to the rider in the pictures (if you are reading) We know you put your picture out there for every Parelli student (past and present to see) Thank you. And if you want to comment too, please join us!

Clarissa · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject:

I am wondering if the first shot is supposed to be a generalized representation of how many people do ride or are taught to ride.

The second shot is how much improvement could be gained immediately if the rider just sat forward to begin with.

There isn't much explanation of the 2 shots in the email notification about these new upcoming courses.

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cynthia peterson · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject:

There are 2 Contact courses in Florida this winter and then Linda goes to a couple European places to teach the Contact Courses. So, there is a interest in them enough to book the Clinics. She did some Contact classes earlier in Europe too.

The Contact courses are still "on" at the Florida Center.

karmikacres · Member Joined: 14 Feb 2009 Posts: 1182

Jeez, I thought they sold saddles and pads to fix this problem. Now they are saying it was their riding all along?
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PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

Cynthia, it certainly is up to each person on if they think they will gain from Linda's course. I know I won't be taking it. I also know that I do not ride center seat all the time, only when I'm actively working on gait, collection or dressage. The rest of the time I am pretty relaxed and I'm sure my horse is pretty strung out. I have my own belief that trail horses shouldn't be ridden collected all the time, anymore then a ballerina should walk on her toes all the time. There is tension in the muscles in collection and I don't think that is a fair thing to do to an animal for hours on end.

I also know that most people need riding lessons and we all could use improvement. There are thousands of riding teachers, not all are the best or even 'good,' depending on who is doing the defining. I see a lot of improvement in the rider's seat in the two pictures. Is she 'there' yet, no, but then I don't ride 'there' all the time either.

I'm not sure if I answered your question Cynthia. I would have to agree with Nicole and Julie's comments. If the second picture is all there is to the Game of Contact, then most (and their horses) would be better off with good Center Seat lessons.
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cynthia peterson · Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject:

Do you mean the questions I asked about why Linda took lessons from WAZ? Or what was missing, Paso Carol? No. Does anyone else have the answer?

IMHO, the concept of collection is not used when riding all the time. The concept of collection is to teach the horse balance and correct movements. The idea is they get to self carriage if you get things right.

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

These were your questions...and I really don't know the answers as I've never taken a lesson from Linda...

Julie · Member Joined: 07 Feb 2009 Posts: 1297

self carriage / engagement is not the same as collection. Collection is a shortened frame, extension is a long frame, you can have self carriage / engagement in all frames, I agree Carol - these are different.

The seat is about muscle tone not muscle tension with the person in self carriage, carrying and balancing themselves using muscle tone. This is much easier in a balanced saddle, they horse will lift himself into the saddle if you get this spot on, with no effort.

Lindas saddles was designed specifically to put you in a sitting on your pockets position - as per the first photo! Sitting in any other position will be difficult.
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stella · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject:

Gotta disagree with you two girls. The word, "collection" is probably, at this point, a poor choice of terminology, because its giving too many people the wrong conception of what it is, being lately putting visions of top hats and piaffes in people's minds first thing.

Common, ordinary "street" collection is simply about teaching a horse how to centralize his weight, optimize his(or her)body position, in order to stay sounder for many more years, in "self-defense" against the onslaught of the burden of human weight(and that saddle thing's weight too)that humans expect them to do for hours on end...

So, the horse that has "self carriage" has simply gotten into the very consistent habit and corresponding physical conditioning of carrying itself with a rounded back, "motor" in the rear, and shift of forehand weight, and correct shift of forehand weight, so that its HEAD AND NECK ARE INDEPENDENT, in the same way good riders' hands/arms, legs are- - so that you CAN ride them on the buckle, they can do a relaxed walk....just won't be dangerously risking back problems going strung out, with all that weight on that back, without the legs optimally helping with support.

A horse with true self carriage then has the freedom of putting its head and neck any place it darned wants to, they lose dependence on it for balance.The only way to maximize true extension in movement, is to have this self-carriage--it improves impulsion.

Think of it more as training the horse how to use itself in self-defense, to optimally protect itself from the eventual negative effects of being ridden by humans.

Letting them get strung out is not a kindness.
I think what Julie may have meant to say is, having self-carriage is not necessarily, dressage.

You can have a horse with self-carriage, and it won't be dependent on having contact with the bit at all. The rein will be "a thread," at best.

Chablis · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject:

Chablis · Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: