It's About The Horse

Pedestal*Pony · Last edited by Pedestal*Pony on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

Ok, the lady that I got Pony from has a 5yr old saddlebred gelding that I am starting to believe is Bipolar. She dont know alot about horses.

I dont know much about this horse at all but she has asked me to come help her with him since I do natural horsemanship.

She IM'd me on facebook last night and said he is now attacking them with a vengence when they go out in the pasture to do anything. He is attacking his own back legs and from what she says self mutilation (no wounds yet).

She said she tossed a piece of apple in to the pasture for him and he attacked it.

She said once she has him on a lead rope or lunge line he is fine. A little spooky but respectful and easy to handle. She has only had him about 2 months. I dont know anything about how she got him (free or paid) or why.

Do you all think he is just that domminant? She has one QH mare pastured with him. She dont want to put him down. With them not knowing much about horses, one of them is going to get seriously hurt. He has kicked her son already.

When I went and got Pony, I was knelt down by the fence because Pony was hard to catch and he came up to the fence with his ears pinned. I ignored it for a bit and then put my fingers thru and give him a little scratch on the nose. I picked him a little grass and he put his ears up for that.

I saw the movie Buck and dont want to end up like the guy that got his head split open by the horse.

PLEEEEEASE everyone, give me some suggestions before I go out to try to get my self killed working with this horse.

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PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

I don't know if bipolar is the word I'd use. First, I'd contact his previous owner and have them come see him, see if this is normal for him or not. There could be two things going on, he may have some type of pain or medical issue that he is fighting. The self-mutilation, if it is a new behavior, points towards this. It is normally associated with pain or stress. I'd have a GOOD horse vet evaluate him. A friend had a stallion who did this and it turned out to be testosterone poisoning.

http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/...viourproblems/eqselfmutilate.html

http://www.juliegoodnight.com/questionsNew.php?id=80

I would rule this out FIRST before I did anything else.

The other thing is that he is a dominant type horse and is taking advantage of their lack of leadership. Once he learned they are afraid of him he is seeing how far he can take his new role as leader. In this case he is not a good choice for a first horse. I'm not sure where he came from or how he was presented to them, but it could be that the farm would take him back or trade for a more suitable horse.

I personally would not go in the pasture with him. Try to draw him into a round coral and work with him from the safety of the other side of the fence and see how that goes. You can not be fearful. Unless you are obviously confident in your ability to be the leader, failing to do so would do more harm then good. Horses like the Yellow horse are created...and it usually is safer to put them down, unless you are indeed a Buck. They are not horses for first time owners to learn with.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

bit · Member Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 4356 Location: Kansas

Did you read Horses Don't Lie? No telling WHY this horse is reacting the way he is. The horse in the book had never been treated like a horse, by a human. Author did driving game, sometimes he drove the horse, sometimes the horse tried to drive him. This was in a round pen. The horse finally accepted the man as a leader, joined up, and then everything changed. I believe this horse was Ediquette? Honestly, if it were me, I'd let someone else deal with the horse. If he is having the same issues as Ediquette, timing has to be right and you have to be a pretty strong, confident individual. Buck could do it, Carolyn, Brent, the Vought's...but these are very gifted horse folk. Fear, weakness, any of that cannot enter into it. This horse will see it, and you'll be toast.
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Pedestal*Pony · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:16 pm Post subject:

I asked her if his agression seems to be human made or if he seems to be hurting anywhere and she said that he dont seem to be hurting any where. He runs around in the pasture just fine and no signs of limping or anything like that.

I will go over and observe the old owner and her tomorrow morning. Then I will make the suggestions you all have. I dont want to get hurt. I dont want to see anyone else get hurt. She does not have any type of round pen, just a small pasture kinda wrapped around her house.

I too think this horse needs a professional. I am not a professional and sure dont claim to be but it breaks my heart to see people in this position. I can go watch and offer suggestions.

This lady has no money at all so I am sure a professional person is out of the question. I would say that their choices are very limited ... he will probably be put down.

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Horses~ Only God could create something so powerful and still remain so gentle, to have such a free heart and soul, to be a loving companion, to be a friend ♥

Pedestal*Pony · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:17 pm Post subject:

I dont want to be toast for sure.
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Proud Charter Member of the "Bad Apple Society"!! YEA!

Horses~ Only God could create something so powerful and still remain so gentle, to have such a free heart and soul, to be a loving companion, to be a friend ♥

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

BTW - him "attacking" an apple is not at all normal...and that could easily be a big play drive and she doesn't understand the difference. Even if that is the case, he is still not a good choice for a new horse owner.
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Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Pedestal*Pony · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:23 pm Post subject:

Clarissa · Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:00 am Post subject:

I don’t think a horse would be bipolar but I do believe a horse can have severe psychological problems ultimately caused by humans that lead to strange behaviors like you are describing.

I once knew of what I would call an extreme LBE gelding cut proud that was bored to death in a small paddock & overfed. He would give himself an erection then bite at it & his back legs for hours leaping & bucking around the paddock & attacking anything that caught his attention including his humans until he was exhausted.

He needed work & finally was handed over to the redneck at the top of our street who ‘broke’ him in, worked the asss off him on wild scrub cattle, kept him tethered & didn’t feed him much. It killed his spirit but did stop his behaviors.

So that might give you something to help guide you as to what your horse needs.

Quote “When she says attacking, I am picturing him bolting at her with his ears pinned flat back and his mouth wide open”

He just needs someone with ‘guts’ to stand their ground, protect their own space as he comes at them & stare him down. After a few times he will find a new game to play instead. The roll of the trainer is to direct all that energy into valuable games rather than allow more destructive games without implying to the horse that it is wrong. It doesn’t understand right from wrong so in the short term, discipline is a wasted & misguided effort.
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gaitinalong · Member Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Posts: 81 Location: Tennessee

Any chance this horse is a cryptorchid? I probably spelled that wrong, but I have first-hand experience with one and he was just bloody unpredictably mean.

Along with having a vet check for that and testosterone level, I would also think about brain tumors, tumors behind the eye.

I have re-schooled some really mean and hateful Widowmakers in my life, none of them ever attacked food - not even the Cryptorchid.

This horse needs examined by a top notch vet before even attempting any further training, IMO. Anything less than a vet examining him first is pure foolishness and asking for a long-term bed in the Traction Ward at the local hospital.

Pedestal*Pony · Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject:

I dont know if he is a cryptorchid or not. She has not been able to get a hold of the old owner for the past several days ... GO FIGURE! GRRR

I am so pissed at that person! Apparently he has NO concious (sp) and dont care if someone gets hurt.

So I am going to go out there and have Mandi video tape the horse and what he does. Of course from the other side of the fence.

I told her that I would take the guy to court.

She paid $75.00 for him and $40.00 to have him hauled to her house. Granted, it isnt much but for someone that has no money (like me), it would buy food for the house or gas for going to work.

Why do peole do this???? This makes me SOOOOOOO mad!!!! She has like a 8yr old son that is autisum (sp) and what happens if he wanders out in the pasture for ANY reason? Maybe he has been told many times not to go out in the pasture but if he does, that horse will kill him.

THAT scares me! I would much rather have the horse attack me then the little boy. I know, stupid to say but that is the way I am. I will not go in the pasture to get the horse. If we have too, we can lour the horse over the gate with food and catch him that way.

I will have Mandi post the video later today when we get home.
_________________
Proud Charter Member of the "Bad Apple Society"!! YEA!

Horses~ Only God could create something so powerful and still remain so gentle, to have such a free heart and soul, to be a loving companion, to be a friend ♥

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

Well, make sure the horse really is violent and not just playful. New horse people quite often don't understand the difference and believe every time the horse puts its ears back it is angry.

I'm sorry Jodi, but if that is all she paid for the horse, then she may have gotten exactly what she paid for. So many people buy 'cheap' and don't realize they are just buying someone else's problems. A first time horse needs to be calm and well trained already. Look at the horse, the money she saved not buying a GOOD horse might need to be spent getting this one trained properly.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

Did you get to see the horse? Have you got an update?
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

Pedestal*Pony · Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:16 am Post subject:

I went and saw and worked with the horse today and I would say yes, he is being aggressive. He did threat to bolt at the owner and kind of did. The old owner did come out.

When the horse walked up to the gate, he did pin his ears and start to open his mouth to bite. When I went out and worked with him, he did pin his ears at me but you will see in the video that I did not let him come to me or get close to me. I walked over to him a time or too but my guard was up at all times and it was on my terms.

His eyes did start to soften but I think he had alot going on in his head. Thinking about everything that was going on. I waited for him lick when he was standing still but if he tried to come to me before he licked I stopped him.

Before we went out, I watched him thru a window and he threw his head back at the top of his butt then started kicking his legs at his belly and would turn around and reach for his legs but didn't make contact with them.

When I was working with him, I didn't feel it was safe enough to use fazes to keep him away from me so I went rite to faze four. I hope that wasn't wrong.

I wasnt nervous or scared to be out there, just had my guard up at all times and didnt want to give him the chance to do anything like get me because a couple of times when I asked him to go out and lunge, I had to pop his shoulder and he was very pissed about that.

I couldn't totally decide if it was all dominance or not. I am going to watch the videos on my computer and see again how he acts. Either way, she don't need this horse and she knows it. You will see him go after her and she backs up in fear. When he pinned his ears with me, I chased him away or backed him up fast and hard.

I believe she is going to give him back to the old owner tomorrow or Monday and I believe he is going to take him and have him put down.

She has me on the hunt for a family horse.

jackspark · Member Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 4477 Location: Missouri

Sad and all too common situation. It happened in my family too....... horses are gone. Don't know how many times I've said to people: "Horses are not just big dogs"

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CoolsLadyInRed · Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject:

Happens all too often. A gal not to far away down the road got 2 Friesiens, a wagon and everything else that had do with these 2 mammoth horses and she had never owned horses. Somebody got hurt pretty bad and now everything is gone including the horses.
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