It's About The Horse

bit · Member Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 4356 Location: Kansas

I sent Eclipse to Missouri for training for two months. She'd never been to training, and I needed help getting her to gait instead of pace. She had some other issues I wasn't able to help her with. I think it was real hard on her, sending her away. You already know how Hawk took it. Being left there.
I'm having some trouble with her being ok about leaving the barn. Well, I wonder why. I wonder what it does to a horse, being sent away. Even if it's to a good place, or even better. Just sayin.
It wasn't just her, it caused the horses left behind stress, as well. Supposed to send Shaun for a restart this spring. Will this do more damage than good?
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"It was once said I should clear my head for one cannot ride a Thoroughbred. Hot they are. And too fast they be. Forever on the fly. But I stayed the course and have no remorse. I love my off the track racehorse!"

ErinR76 · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Posts: 506 Location: Austin TX

Thats tough. Best I can tell you is to really try to explain it to them however you can, as far in advance as you can. Tell them the reasons why and help address any fears or issues that you think being sent away for a time will bring up in them. I think they can understand, but like you said, they might not like it! And they have a right to their feelings.

I know I've moved my horse from places she's liked and horses she's liked. (I board.) Its a bummer deal but what are you going to do. Apologize profusely and suck up big time.
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A horse is NOT a large dog that thinks like a person.

ErinR76 · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Posts: 506 Location: Austin TX

on a different note, did having her out for training help you with the issues you meant to fix? Will she pick up a gait for you now?
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A horse is NOT a large dog that thinks like a person.

ShannonE · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject:

Deb that is a real tough call to make. I sent two colts away this year to be started. The first colt was gone for a month. He took about 2 weeks or so to settle back in once he got home.

The second colt I sent last fall and he was gone for 6 weeks. He ended up with all sorts of problems and took a really long time to resettle once he got home. He also had physical issues that needed to be dealt with. He's supposed to go back this spring for another month to make him just a little more solid, but we've decided it's just not worth it.

I know this trainer quite well so I don't believe for a second he did anything wrong. About the best explanation I have for both colts upon their return here was that they were both shell shocked.

I am not skilled enough to have started both these colts so I did what was necessary to give them the best start possible. That doesn't mean it was necessarily easy to send them off.

Shannon

ErinR76 · Member Joined: 12 Aug 2011 Posts: 506 Location: Austin TX

I wonder if it would be possible to find a trustworthy person to come to your house daily to work with the colt/horse (people in general). Or, failing that, you do most of the groundwork, and then get a brave young soul to come help; you stand outside the round corral and instruct the person what to do for the first couple rides. Maybe that's a good alternative to starting colts yourself or sending them off.
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A horse is NOT a large dog that thinks like a person.

jackspark · Member Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 4477 Location: Missouri

I just can't send mine away, the "pain" that it creates in me is too much to deal with....... if it's that bad for me, I can't imagine what it would be like for them.
_________________
Nancy

Flying Monkey Trainer

A journey of a thousand miles must
begin with a single step. Lao Tzu

Clarissa · Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:33 am Post subject:

“Will this do more damage than good?”

Good question Deb. After what he’s been through he just may put you in the same bag as all those other shysters who’ve done him wrong over the years. It may then take a LOT of time & effort to undo this most recent deception.

Is it possible to get someone to visit your place for a few days now & then who will help him along then give you ‘homework’ to do with him for a week or so?

I really don’t see what sort of ‘restart’ Shaun baby needs. OTTB’s are often a bit short of patience under saddle & a bit too keen to get into gear. But that’s just normal & you already have the NH tools & techniques to deal effectively with that. He wears a bit quite well obviously & a saddle. He can be handled over his whole body without problems. It’s just his mind & you have already done a LOT of the work needed to change his attitude. Sending him away just may undo most of that work & render him somewhat confrontational due to him not seeing the sense in this latest move. It could bring back feelings of the race track & actually hype him up somewhat.

As for horses in general mourning the loss of a family or herd member. I have seen it first hand. When a member is removed from the herd they generally see it as a permanent loss because they don’t understand it might only be a temporary thing. If they were in a herd that changed daily, friendships & allegiances may not develop to the point of strength. But once they have been together even a week, the pecking order is established & boundaries set, allegiances established & leadership & friendships well on the way to being cemented.

Just because horses don’t cry tears that we see or wail out loud (other than screaming their tits off & tearing up the paddock or pen) is no reason to think they don’t feel loss or bereavement. They are social creatures & herd oriented & need leadership or they run off the rails quite smartly.

Some will say it’s …..um what’s that word that means putting a human slant on animals? But I disagree. I disagree so much I have never learnt that word properly. If horses didn’t feel the need for security from a herd & to develop allegiances they would just wander off alone all over the place instead of banding together as tightly as they do. Mares would never have to kick their young away, the young would just wander away soon enough.

Think about this scenario Deb. Your Tony is whisked away without notice & you don’t understand why & no-one can explain any reason to you. You are just sent back to your room. You search everywhere you are allowed to go without success. You scream out for days to no avail. Your distress gets really bad some days & someone arrives at your room who forces you out to work really hard without there being any logical reason for it other than to wear you out. You feel despondent. Time goes by & every time you are taken out into crowds you search every face & listen to every voice incase you detect Tony. Your mind is not on your job & you make mistakes so you are worked harder. When do you stop looking for him? How much heart ache do you go through before you give in & quit searching?

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bit · Member Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 4356 Location: Kansas

Well thanks Clarrissa, now I'm all wheepy. lol! I thought about this, because he is an ottb and they are started differently. Usually at 18 mos, there is no ground work, jockey mounts from leg up so no weight in the stirrup. Jockey goes up, horse goes. Jockey position determines speed, as well as reins. The speed is fast, and from what of seen of his pics, it was not a joyful fast.
I bought a book about retraining the ottb, and they really do have quite a different life. 23 hours a day in a stall, hay net, strict schedule on feeding. They can colic if you aren't on time for dinner. 20 minutes, on the track, and back to that box stall. They know one speed. Ground manners? None. As long as they are winning, they can do anything they want. Grooms just keep doing what they need to do while horse dances, attempts to bite, kick, and otherwise do what they want. Took me a bit just to get him to give me his foot without drama. I can see why he ended up where he did.
Yep, I can do the ground work, but I'm not inclined to get on. I will trailer him to trainer, spend a few days and work with them. I won't be leaving him. May bring Eclipse and Bit, too. Just bring the herd, take some lessons, and work some cows.
Yes, I felt Eclipse's confusion, pain, grief, as well and Bit and Shaun's. It was heartbreaking. I am taking Eclipse to a clinic in Colo for four days in August. We'll be gone 6 days. I'll prepare them as much as I can.
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"It was once said I should clear my head for one cannot ride a Thoroughbred. Hot they are. And too fast they be. Forever on the fly. But I stayed the course and have no remorse. I love my off the track racehorse!"

PasoBaby_CarolU · Site Admin Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 9038

This is kind of interesting. From what I've seen the horses that you have the most trouble with (stress wise) are those you do the least with. My old horses who haven't left my place but a few times since I moved here always stress when separated. Actually, the one left at home or in the coral stresses more then the one taken out and worked with.

If you have a sensitive horse like Eclipse must be, like Zar is, it would kill Zar if I left her someplace. She does not do well at all with strangers and few people understand just how sensitive she is. It would shatter our relationship if I let someone else 'work' her. Rosie, is not like that at all, still very sensitive as in light, she isn't nearly as emotionally dependent on me as Zar is. None the less, I trained Rosie from scratch and that really is how I prefer to do my horses. I get friends (Parelli savvy) to help me with the first half dozen rides. My husband is pretty hopeless about this.

The one horse I sent to a trainer was Buddy and that destroyed him. I know he was run in the round coral for HOURS and he was laid down, and all it did was cement in his mind that men are evil incarnate. The trainer never could even get on him, Buddy would scoot out from under him each time he tried to get on. I finally had Jamie (Hacienda del Sol) come up and help me with my first rides on him. Jamie is Paso Fino savvy and this worked well except that Buddy was still afraid the whole time Jamie was here. The trainer pretty much destroyed the trust Buddy had in me, but I've finally concluded that something happened to this horse a long time ago and he'll never be peaceful in his mind.

So, all this is to say that only you know those horses now and can make a good decision for them. I think going and staying with them is the best idea, that way you learn too. It is always difficult on where to draw these lines...when to push and what is pushing too hard. Each horse is different and few people are really savvy enough to see/know the difference.
_________________
Carol Nudell
Corazon de Oro Paso Finos

"The path to your horse's heart lies through your own."

Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots. - Words of Wisdom - Mhar

‎"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss activities; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt

jackspark · Member Joined: 10 Jan 2010 Posts: 4477 Location: Missouri

When we talk about this it seems that we all have the same deep feelings. Funny how horse people don't REALLY discuss this very often..... or worse just flat don't see it from the horse's vantage point. It's not worth it for me and mine. I'd rather progress slower and keep our sanity in place

_________________
Nancy

Flying Monkey Trainer

A journey of a thousand miles must
begin with a single step. Lao Tzu

HopeMissouri · Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject:

The two of my horses that travel to various clinics and trailrides, would probably transition to the trainer herd the best. They're accustomed to traveling and have done overnights. Knowing the trainer you are sending your horses to, I like that while the horses are not being played with, they get to be horses in a quiet herd. It is always interesting to me, that the horses that come from the same homes, seem to stick together, even in the trainers' herd.

My two older horses would do fine in Jenny & Tony's herd as well. I know the Vaughts really watch and consider which horses would do best together.

Maybe you could take Shawn to some clinics to get him accustomed to traveling away, then back to his home?
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bit · Member Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 4356 Location: Kansas

I'm going to talk to Jenny about it. Right now, Tony is just coming home from the hospital, so will wait until things settle down. I want to go down for his first week, anyway. Just may bring all three horses, ride Bit and Eclipse, and learn about how to restart a race horse!
Hey, where to I get the cat hat?
_________________
"It was once said I should clear my head for one cannot ride a Thoroughbred. Hot they are. And too fast they be. Forever on the fly. But I stayed the course and have no remorse. I love my off the track racehorse!"